cost of parts for hans panel

[caretak3r]

I'm a geek, that's probably why I like studying and playing with LEDs. My grow height is pretty limited (around 30" total if memory serves) so I keep researching what would work best. I have plenty of stuff in the works including a set of 1W panels that I'm looking forward to testing. Still, I keep reading threads and like what I've read about the hans panel. On the surface it seems expensive for what it is, but I decided to price out parts for something similar just to understand the parts cost. I looked at rapidled and ledgroupbuy and if you price the star-mounted LEDs, it appears there's about $130 in LEDs in each panel. Rapid LED has 6x20" heatsink as-is (scratch and dent) for $22 which I think is a reasonably priced sub for Hans's mcpcb and fan. Add in 3 of the MW 700ma drivers, and you're up to $200 in parts cost for something similar (but without the individual reflectors). Suddenly $240 doesn't sound that bad. I'm sure If i was building my own I would actually make some different LED choices, and there is value in that ability. I thought it might be helpful to someone researching to know that the Hans panel, aside from the evidence of good growth ability that's already documented, really isn't a bad value when just looking at parts cost compared to a DIY.

 

[PSUAGRO.]

Yeah I agree with you obviously...The only thing that needs to be calculated into the equation is Bin selection, I know hans uses good bins BUT not top on ALL the nm. The rebels are top but I'm not sure on the cree xp-e or the new xt-e???

Ill see if I can get some exact info from him.......He hates when I email him, lol I tease him about having no whites in his panels

 

[FranJan]

Yeah I was thinking about building a Han's panel and ran into the same walls you are OP. His price for LEDs must be completely different than the rest of us, plus we don't talk a lot about drivers here and something tells me Han's are a step up from the usual off the shelf drivers. PSU what do you know about those drivers? Are they off the shelf or custom made?

 

[PSUAGRO.]

Yeah I was thinking about building a Han's panel and ran into the same walls you are OP. His price for LEDs must be completely different than the rest of us, plus we don't talk a lot about drivers here and something tells me Han's are a step up from the usual off the shelf drivers. PSU what do you know about those drivers? Are they off the shelf or custom made?

Its off the shelf (made in china) driver no doubt but it seems well built and has large cooling fins on it

bitch gets hot....

 

[SnotBoogie]

Meanwell drivers are often sold for wayyy inflated prices, check amazon/ebay for big chinese retailers and they can be had for half what they go for on most sites.

 

[FranJan]

Interesting. I would think Han had something made. Drivers aren't that hard to build from what I've read and seen, though it helps to be Guod . Then again the drivers don't grow the plants by themselves, so if you can find the right tool off the shelf...... But what I'm taking from it is Han seems to believe that the most efficient bin isn't necessarily the best, but multi-bins get that analog multi-peak spectrum which to me is better than that "lets pound the shit out of 2 to 9 wavelengths" mentality that many Asian panels employ. Plantphotonics has that mentality. Area too I believe. The use of CREEs probably help too since their less efficient bins are still better than most manufacturer's top bins.

Hey P I think I'm gonna get a t-shirt made up that says, "Han's Right, Fuck White" LOL

 

[caretak3r]

OK, so, for simplicity's sake, $130 for top-binnned LEDs from rapid or ledgroupbuy, $22 for cheapish heatsink, and $35 aliexpress.com 60W/700ma driver now get's us to ~$180-190. I guess any additional savings would come from using lower binned LEDs.

 

[SnotBoogie]

130$ for how many watts of top bin?

 

[caretak3r]

this is an attempt to re-create a hans panel in a DIY way - so it was:
4 xt-e blue
27 xp-e red
2 rebel es 660
from either rapidled or ledgroupbuy - i used them as reference only because it was easy to find them. I'm sure there are good lists here for sources but I haven't gotten through the super long threads yet. It's also possible they aren't top binned.

 

[FranJan]

Mouser would be best since they do carry multiple binnings.

Blue XT-E

Red XP-E

Mouser doesn't sell red Rebels ATM. Phillips cut a distribution deal with Mouser recently so they should have them soon. Probably can call them to get them. But the real question is how hard do you run the blues cause they will out power the reds if not driven correctly. And what is Han's beam angle? Is he running a 60° on the reds and 90°+ on the blues?

 

[SnotBoogie]

Mouser, cutter, rs online, farnell sometimes, are all good. thos "LED speciality shops" are 99% overpriced imho....

 

[caretak3r]

i guess you're telling me it's time to learn how to reflow solder and etch some boards

 

[PSUAGRO.]

Alright.....so Hans got back to me and here are the exact bin # for his leds on the panel:

XPERED 501

XTEARY L05

LXM3-PD01-0300

No idea what grouping this puts them in , to lazy to check ATM I didn't mention anything about adding xt-e ww in his panels he did say that some big changes are coming in two months and I would "approve" of it. lol i think he's trolling me.

 

[FranJan]

So you're telling me I gotta change my shirt to;
P Is Right, Bring On The White!

 

[stardustsailor]

i guess you're telling me it's time to learn how to reflow solder and etch some boards

In order to build at least a "decent " DIY / custom led grow light fixture .....
And regarding metal core pcbs / IMS and ceramic type of leds (Cree/Luxeon/Osram /etc ) ....

1_ Get the leds already presoldered in star-mcpcbs ....
While it's a great and relatively cheap / easy method ,star shaped pcbs won't allow for close "packing " of leds ....

2_ Get the leds custom soldered in standard or custom ordered mc pcbs .....
Cool idea ,but somewhat expensive ......

3_ Etch your own mcpcbs and reflow the leds yourself ....
Well...Not that difficult as it sounds ..More of time-consuming ,delicate procedures ....
But allows for max freedom regarding design ,choice of leds ,placing the leds ,etc ...
And doesn't cost a fortune ....

.....

 

[PSUAGRO.]

So you're telling me I gotta change my shirt to;
P Is Right, Bring On The White!

I wouldn't go that far...it will be some time before Hans puts any white leds in his panels(his low wattage fixtures have always been about efficiency), he's coming out with something new though but won't tell me and he's NOT doing an all cree xt-e panel! So who the Fuck knows what he's up too. His hint was just that I would like it, have no idea what that means....lol

 

[LEDmania]

Well, I am sure if Hans orders a bulk order of the LEDs and parts, he definitely can get a very good price. The XP-G Cree chips is about 2$ in China, we cannot count the production cost based on a retail price.

 

[SupraSPL]

Those are the generic part numbers. Most likely he doesn't know the actual bins and that is the way they were sold to him. When in doubt assume the minimum. Top bins are critical. The way I see it if you aren't using top bins you are better off with HID.

Looking at that panel it is dissipating 56 watts with insufficient cooling and has a massive peak at 630nm. High junction temps really hurt red leds efficiency. To make matters worse low bin leds generate much more heat.

So to answer you question op, I say the HANs panel is not a good value compared to DIY.

 

[PSUAGRO.]

Those are the generic part numbers. Most likely he doesn't know the actual bins and that is the way they were sold to him. When in doubt assume the minimum. Top bins are critical. The way I see it if you aren't using top bins you are better off with HID.

Looking at that panel it is dissipating 56 watts with insufficient cooling and has a massive peak at 630nm. High junction temps really hurt red leds efficiency. To make matters worse low bin leds generate much more heat.

So to answer you question op, I say the HANs panel is not a good value compared to DIY.

AHH so their are NOT the bin #......Damn your probably right about HANS not even knowing then . I disagree with you about the cooling being insufficient, the remote driver takes the brunt of the heat and the metal backing + 1w fan with the mcpcb core inside runs "relatively" cool (same design as plantphotonics panels). But In my grow room layout their IS a large wall mounted fan pointing directly at whatever fixture is being used at the time, so this plays a big role in its cooling abilities, Hans panel may in fact run too hot in other situations, IDK.

The fact that he sells the at $250 a piece(if u buy two) twenty dollars less than a BS-240 panel on amazon......I think they are still a good value, better than DIY?? NO WAY!!!

 

[FranJan]

IDK Supra sometimes you have to look at it from a practical standpoint. You do your math, then you build and use it to see how it performs. Sometimes it's the sum of all parts that makes it work. Is Han's panel perfect? No, and I agree with many points you make, but it does grow weed well for the energy it uses. And for someone who has a small grow and doesn't really have the time or know how, you can't say it's better to get a 600, (if we're talking about efficiency, right?), and knock a hole in your wall, (ultimately). Plus Hans in it to make money, not to start a revolution, so he's making choices based on how much money can be made yet maintain some level of performance, I assume . So now that he's got a bit of a name for himself in the LED world, will he up his game with his next offering or just jump on the CREE bandwagon?

So besides all that wind I just blew, I think the challenge should be to build a panel that performs as good or better than a Hans panel, within his price range and that almost anyone can build from parts off the Internet. Now I know I can't do that. Can you? Anyone? And even if someone can build something, you can't just say Yay or Nay without trying it out. Right?

PSU, maybe he just doesn't want to tell you the bins actually. Guy's an entrepreneur and secrets are.... secret .