Eveything you need to make Rick Simpsons/Wernard Bruinings Oil !

[The Yorkshireman]

1) What do you mean? Eating a pill of oil doesn't vaporize anything, Vaporizing is one way and your right it will heat the thc and transform the acids into meds.

2) That's kinda my point there is no heating BHO extraction. 180-220 degrees is the recommended heat range not vaporization. Vapourizing and smoking are the least effective way to ingest the meds and actually has less than half the effect.


4) It is the HEAT in the process that transforms the cannabinoids, and has nothing to do with dry material or other factors.

5) Well actually CBD's and CBN's can be found in the actual plant matter, THC also but in such smaller amounts. These are also a huge part of the medication.

5) Sorry its not me that does not have a grasp of things. Decarbing can be done at a temp of a min of 185 degrees, a far cry from vaporizing, and yes decarbing is an absolute step to make these meds which unless you cook your oil, BHO has the least amount of meds when compare to other methods. If your using BHO to treat cancer or other dieases you are losing a big chunk of the meds.

Sir.Ganja I'm sorry but you are deluded and ignorant to basic chemistry/pharmacology.


1) "Any solvent that does not require heating will NOT work for the medication. Im not sure about the properties of heptane but butane made oil does not have the same effect or outcome due to the fact that it is not heated in the vaping process."

There is no vapourisation process in making oil, vapourisation occurs when you smoke it hence THCA being converted to THC just before/at the point of vapourisation.
If you are referring to the EVAPORATION of the solvent then please say so as this is NOT the same thing.
Evaporation is the liquid to gas transition that happens BELOW the given boiling point of a substance and vapourisation is the liquid to gas transition that happens ABOVE the boiling point of a given substance.

2) There is no need to heat BHO (butane honey oil) as the trichome heads have already decarboxylated whilst drying (as has already been explained).
Smoking is not advised as it creates carcinogens like carbon monoxide. Vapourisation on the other hand is THE most efficient way to ingest THC aside intravenous injection as the gas vapour is diffused directly into the pulmonary veins, how do you think we get oxygen into the blood stream in less than 1 second after taking a breath!?

You are quite welcome to eat your oil caps that have to be digested by stomach bile and then processed by the liver before SOME of the THC enters your blood stream (the rest being broken down by enzymes in the liver) but be aware that it this very process that is the most inefficient way to administer your medication and has less than half the effect.

3) No you are wrong and it is now apparent you DON'T understand the very very simple process of decarboxylation at all!

Again, the carboxyl group (carbon/oxygen) is removed over time as the buds dry (carbon and oxygen leaving the matter as evaporating water and carbon dioxide) converting THCA into THC.

Heat does not transform the cannabinoids it simply speeds up the process, if you believe otherwise please attempt to explain how and why?

4) You are correct that SOME cannabinoids can be found in the vegetable matter but on such a minute scale that it is not practical or logical to harvest these.
In the process of extracting those said cannabinoids (in ratios less than 0.001% which would constitute trace amounts) with a solvent like Ethanol you would also extract a shit load of unwanted crap, doing your oil more harm than good.
Also to extract those trace amounts of cannabinoids from the vegetable matter you would need to fully dry and powder your plant material as they are not secreted on the outside of the plant like the trichomes, this is such a time consuming process for very little (trace amounts) payload that again, it's illogical and pretty much futile.

5) Concerning decarbing see again point 3).
As for "BHO has the least amount of meds when compare to other methods. If your using BHO to treat cancer or other dieases you are losing a big chunk of the meds", again you are wrong as Vlad has explained concerning the solvent of choice and also according to Dr Paul Hornby Phd.
Some BHO/Budder samples have been lab tested by Dr Hornby (http://www.drpaulhornby.ca/) (http://www.hedron.ca/) and confirmed to be 99.6% THC.


The disagreement over decarbing aside (I added a decarb step to my process to eliminate any discrepancies) BHO is the better product hands down.

 

[420circuit]

Surprising to see acrimony amongst such well-intentioned folks who share a common mission. I am recovering from a craniotomy and radiation therapy for removal of a very large glioma and am researching how to make a cannabis treatment in order to prevent it from growing back. RSO was the first thing I found online, and the naptha method is not very sensible in a residential environment, so I picked up a couple liters of Everclear (95% ethanol) and have planned to use a fondue pot and an infrared thermometer to extract some oil from a a few ounces of properly grown buds. But this discussion, entertainment aspects aside, leads me to conclude that perhaps ethanol is not the best way to go about this. Thank you for participating in a lively debate about the merits of the different approaches to the production of an effective medicine. This discourse helps to advance our understanding of the details, although it seems that the writers' passion for the topic may cloud the message. Please, with your combined experience and accumulated subject matter expertise, can you put together a method for a layman to self-treat a glioma without building a laboratory or spending a fortune?

In case nobody has thanked you for your efforts in this endeavour today, please accept my heartfelt thanks for the time and effort you have put forth. And please play nicely together, we are all in this together.

 

[Sir.Ganga]

Sir.Ganja I'm sorry but you are deluded and ignorant to basic chemistry/pharmacology.

Its too bad you have to bash and call names when someone disagrees with your point of view, ESPECIALLY when you are wrong on a few of your issues. Do you realize how long it would take a bud to decarb sitting on your counter at room temp? I do!....So instead of trying to be the BIG MAN with the right answer, tell the folks how long it would take? A week, a month...even a year. If your all that in the sciences then you will realize that a reaction happens quicker and better when a heat source is supplied. Removing a carbon atom from the chain is so much more efficient when heated and you know it, so stop trying to bash and be the MAN! Cause your not! You learn in first year that certain reaction has less favorable results when done at low temps. People come here to learn so if your just gonna confuse the issue and bash others, you know what you can do! After all your lies and bashing I've still proven your a dick that really know very little, I'm done with you.

 

[420circuit]

Sir.ganga, can you put forward which method you think would work best, that a patient can do at home? In my career, working on large and complicated projects, we often see experts disagree on the details, but the trick to moving forward is to try to ignore the details that are wrong or foul, in order to 'move the ball down the field'. Please do not walk off the field because you think someone on your team has fouled you, the team still needs your efforts inspite of the distractions. There is a decarbox temp chart that gets passed around on this forum that identifies the different temps required for, but as far as a bigger picture method for 'making the medicine', I would like to see what you suggest is the 'easy at-home method'.

No matter what methods are put forward there will be criticism, if not in the method, the grammer, spelling or punctuation. Peer review is an important part of the process and people who create any technical work are typically not very diplomatic, perhaps some sort of right-brain/left-brain thing. Important to not lose sight of the objective, to advance the state of the art in medicine to help patients get better.

 

[420circuit]

Can I get a "Hell Yeah" for my post? Vlad's sig line link has great wealth of info, but I am terrified of doing a BHO process because of the dangers of ignition or poisoning. Everclear seems harmless enough for home use, surely there is a method that will yield an acceptable level of quality product to cure/prevent my brain cancer using this stuff. Sure, let the guy with brain surgery try to figure this out.

 

[Nizza]

so from what i gather from all this , is that its easier for someone who doesn't want to make the butane oil to take the rick simpson oil route,
but it may be a better strength and more balanced to use BHO, and maybe just eat greens every day if you want the added effects? I see either sides points but from what i understand from the simpson style is that your getting other stuff activated in the plant from heating it, maybe it could be same method except with trim being heated up and then afterwards add the bho?

 

[420circuit]

Hey Nizza, while the people who know the most about this are offline, I have come to the conclusion that there is something to this cannabis as medicine thing and will be making some oil using Everclear to extract, plan to heat to 270F for a few minutes during the process, will mix with equal part coconut oil and mix in some soy lecithin before loading capsules with hopefully uniform doses. I'll probably run 4 ounces at a time and, if the first batch doesn't cause too much of a problem, run a whole pound this way. I'll get the first batch tested by dropping off a couple caps at a local testing center so I know what exactly is in them. I wish there was a more organized and already validated/standardized way of going about this, but between the conflicting information and, poorly organized data, I am left trying to figure this out with just some of the facts. I don't have time to learn the chemistry and I am distrustful of folks who offer to sell me a magic elixer made with butane. So, I'll try cooking up some oil and see what happens. I might document some of this, but am becoming disillusioned with the quality of online discourse. I feel that the tide may have fallen too far and western civilization is doomed to collapse because of the general decline in civility while destruction is becoming more common than construction. Here's to survival of the fittest.

 

[The Yorkshireman]

Its too bad you have to bash and call names when someone disagrees with your point of view, ESPECIALLY when you are wrong on a few of your issues. Do you realize how long it would take a bud to decarb sitting on your counter at room temp? I do!....So instead of trying to be the BIG MAN with the right answer, tell the folks how long it would take? A week, a month...even a year. If your all that in the sciences then you will realize that a reaction happens quicker and better when a heat source is supplied. Removing a carbon atom from the chain is so much more efficient when heated and you know it, so stop trying to bash and be the MAN! Cause your not! You learn in first year that certain reaction has less favorable results when done at low temps. People come here to learn so if your just gonna confuse the issue and bash others, you know what you can do! After all your lies and bashing I've still proven your a dick that really know very little, I'm done with you.

Again you take the first line of my post out of context! You are still banging on about decarbing when it's not even the fundamental point of my OP (even though my OP has a decarb step).

I haven't called anybody names, you ARE deluded and ignorant to basic chemistry.
You do understand the definition of deluded right? (Holding a view despite overwhelming evidence to the contrary) Basically it means you're intellectually dishonest!

If you read my post properly instead of simply objecting to the opening statement you will see that I agree with the reaction being quicker and more efficient with a heat source.

I have not confused the issue and have explained myself in laymans terms all along the way, something which you have not.

Lies and bashing? You've proven I'm a dick who knows very little?
I haven't lied and you've proven nothing, there has been no scientific knowledge whatsoever posted here by you and you are the one who has brought nothing to the table!

I will repost my points again for your benefit, you can't hide from fact for much longer before you look like a fool to everybody else too.
If you think I am wrong or have lied (a lie being intentional remember) about any of the points then please feel free to break them down and explain why, just as I have done (that's twice you've been invited to explain yourself now).

"​1) "Any solvent that does not require heating will NOT work for the medication. Im not sure about the properties of heptane but butane made oil does not have the same effect or outcome due to the fact that it is not heated in the vaping process."

There is no vapourisation process in making oil, vapourisation occurs when you smoke it hence THCA being converted to THC just before/at the point of vapourisation.
If you are referring to the EVAPORATION of the solvent then please say so as this is NOT the same thing.
Evaporation is the liquid to gas transition that happens BELOW the given boiling point of a substance and vapourisation is the liquid to gas transition that happens ABOVE the boiling point of a given substance.

2) There is no need to heat BHO (butane honey oil) as the trichome heads have already decarboxylated whilst drying (as has already been explained).
Smoking is not advised as it creates carcinogens like carbon monoxide. Vapourisation on the other hand is THE most efficient way to ingest THC aside intravenous injection as the gas vapour is diffused directly into the pulmonary veins, how do you think we get oxygen into the blood stream in less than 1 second after taking a breath!?

You are quite welcome to eat your oil caps that have to be digested by stomach bile and then processed by the liver before SOME of the THC enters your blood stream (the rest being broken down by enzymes in the liver) but be aware that it this very process that is the most inefficient way to administer your medication and has less than half the effect.

3) No you are wrong and it is now apparent you DON'T understand the very very simple process of decarboxylation at all!

Again, the carboxyl group (carbon/oxygen) is removed over time as the buds dry (carbon and oxygen leaving the matter as evaporating water and carbon dioxide) converting THCA into THC.

Heat does not transform the cannabinoids it simply speeds up the process, if you believe otherwise please attempt to explain how and why?

4) You are correct that SOME cannabinoids can be found in the vegetable matter but on such a minute scale that it is not practical or logical to harvest these.
In the process of extracting those said cannabinoids (in ratios less than 0.001% which would constitute trace amounts) with a solvent like Ethanol you would also extract a shit load of unwanted crap, doing your oil more harm than good.
Also to extract those trace amounts of cannabinoids from the vegetable matter you would need to fully dry and powder your plant material as they are not secreted on the outside of the plant like the trichomes, this is such a time consuming process for very little (trace amounts) payload that again, it's illogical and pretty much futile.

5) Concerning decarbing see again point 3).
As for "BHO has the least amount of meds when compare to other methods. If your using BHO to treat cancer or other dieases you are losing a big chunk of the meds", again you are wrong as Vlad has explained concerning the solvent of choice and also according to Dr Paul Hornby Phd.
Some BHO/Budder samples have been lab tested by Dr Hornby (http://www.drpaulhornby.ca/) (http://www.hedron.ca/) and confirmed to be 99.6% THC.


The disagreement over decarbing aside (I added a decarb step to my process to eliminate any discrepancies) BHO is the better product hands down."

If you can't or don't wish to then I suggest you keep your unfounded opinions to yourself instead of trying to tar sound scientific advice with nothing more than 'No, you're a dick'!

 

[The Yorkshireman]

I don't have time to learn the chemistry and I am distrustful of folks who offer to sell me a magic elixer made with butane.

You don't have the time to learn the chemistry yet would be distrustful of Butane but not Ethanol!?

Wow, that ignorance is astounding!

 

[420circuit]

You don't have the time to learn the chemistry yet would be distrustful of Butane but not Ethanol!?

Wow, that ignorance is astounding!

Wow, try Prozac for that hostility, it diminishes your ability to function properly with other people.

Yes, without the benefit of a college education in chemistry I distrust butane more than ethanol. I can drink ethanol, but ingesting butane would not be on my list of things to try. I understand the idea that the solvent is used to transport the things we want away from the plant matter that we don't, but am reluctant to risk accidentally contaminating the final product or blowing myself up.

If the ethanol works nearly as well, or at least well enough to make an effective medicine, then it makes sense to use it instead of potentially toxic and dangerous butane. What I asked you college kids about was a method that an ignorant fuck could use to make the medicine. I fear that your ability to grow up into a socially functional adult may compromise your ability to respond in an informative way. That's fine, I appreciate the information that you have shared and will disregard the immature stuff. Good luck with your social development.

 

[aknight3]

im soryr i didnt read through this thread but doesnt rick simpson use some type of really cool commercial solvent to make this rick simpson oil? sorry for being lazy

 

[420circuit]

Last I saw he was using naptha or ether, the naptha from a paint or varnish stripper at the hardware store. Many people are doing it with Everclear, ethanol, probably like me out of fear of blowing up or poisoning somebody. I don't need it to be perfect, just to work, but for some reason there are a few people who feel the need to be assholes and divert the legit research to find a safe process. Probably cops or some other group whose intent is to fuck it up because they don't support the idea that cannabis might actually cure cancer or at least help. There is a tincture recipe that uses Everclear and no heat, just soaking the herb, freezing and shaking, then straining and all it takes is a few drops to dose and it takes effect in minutes. Check Green Dragon tincture for that one. I will be making some RSO soon with Everclear at home in a fondue pot, mixing with coconut oil and soy lecithin and putting in caps. Still got a couple details to work out with dosage amounts and temperatures, but it looks like this process will get me to the compounds that help to control disease and also get me the effects that I enjoy.

 

[aknight3]

yea i think it was some type of commercial ether.

 

[420circuit]

Ether is scary shit. It doesn't burn so much as it explodes, it was used as anesthesia for surgical patients so it will take you all the way out beyond intoxication and the pictures of comedian Richard Prior after his blow up have spooked me. So it will be good old Everclear for my homebrew RSO.

 

[The Yorkshireman]

Wow, try Prozac for that hostility, it diminishes your ability to function properly with other people.

Yes, without the benefit of a college education in chemistry I distrust butane more than ethanol. I can drink ethanol, but ingesting butane would not be on my list of things to try. I understand the idea that the solvent is used to transport the things we want away from the plant matter that we don't, but am reluctant to risk accidentally contaminating the final product or blowing myself up.

If the ethanol works nearly as well, or at least well enough to make an effective medicine, then it makes sense to use it instead of potentially toxic and dangerous butane. What I asked you college kids about was a method that an ignorant fuck could use to make the medicine. I fear that your ability to grow up into a socially functional adult may compromise your ability to respond in an informative way. That's fine, I appreciate the information that you have shared and will disregard the immature stuff. Good luck with your social development.

I say that I'm stunned at your lack of knowledge and you say I'm hostile? I suggest you refer to an Oxford English and look up the definition of hostile as not understanding the language diminishes your ability to function properly with other people.

Yes you can drink Ethanol but to presume that it is safe to do so would be a big mistake, the damage happens when the liver starts to metabolise it.
Uncompressed Butane is a gas at room temp where as Ethanol is a liquid, it's near on impossible to contaminate a liquid with a gas without extreme preassure (I'm sure even in high school they taught you the difference between a gas,solid and liquid) and is far more likely and even probable with Ethanol .
You would have to be a complete idiot to blow yourself up, really. The Butane evaporates as soon as it comes out of compression, you can see it bubbling away in front of your eyes, Ethanol on the other hand needs a heat source to evaporate properly.

Actually Ethanol is far more toxic to the human body than Butane, again the problem with Butane is it's a gas at room temp.

College Kid? Grow up? I'm a self taught 34 year old, you're the one throwing around immature Ad-Hominem comments!

My first post has a method that an ignorant fuck could use,if the ignorant fuck is not prepared to open his/her mind to new knowledge/learning then there really is nothing more I could do to help.

As they say "Ignorance is bliss".

 

[altainta]

With all due respect i like the method. easy, clean, simple.
But i want to ask some questions as i am total newbie in this but as research i found this method is one of cancer cure.
There are only three method i found so far effective though
1) Rick Simpson
2) Bad Kitty Smiles
3) BHO (as yours)
i would like to know what are you views on bad kitty smile method of cannabis concentrate.

Recently i also found that Coconut oil (bad kitty method) and Olive Oil (check the link for research pdf on cannabonaids www.cannabis-med.org/data/pdf/en_2013_01_1.pdf ) can be used.
I would like to know abt a very easy and effective methods of making the capsules for medicine purpose.
User like me want to do daily job plus medication for earning and curing.
FYI - I have never seen a hemp plant in my life only in photos. I have no idea much about the bud and stuff. I have theorotical knowledge of this and no practical knowledge. I am doing this to avoid cancer and many other ailments from my family in natural way with less sideeffects. I lost one family member to carcinoma already.

 

[Sir.Ganga]

Sir.ganga, can you put forward which method you think would work best, that a patient can do at home? In my career, working on large and complicated projects, we often see experts disagree on the details, but the trick to moving forward is to try to ignore the details that are wrong or foul, in order to 'move the ball down the field'. Please do not walk off the field because you think someone on your team has fouled you, the team still needs your efforts inspite of the distractions. There is a decarbox temp chart that gets passed around on this forum that identifies the different temps required for, but as far as a bigger picture method for 'making the medicine', I would like to see what you suggest is the 'easy at-home method'.

No matter what methods are put forward there will be criticism, if not in the method, the grammer, spelling or punctuation. Peer review is an important part of the process and people who create any technical work are typically not very diplomatic, perhaps some sort of right-brain/left-brain thing. Important to not lose sight of the objective, to advance the state of the art in medicine to help patients get better.

Hey 420...I apologize for the rant but mis-information is killing folks in need of solid advise, like I said everyone needs this medicine! BHO just doesn't give you what is required because of the process. You mentioned earlier about ever clear, I do not use alcohol but for this purpose it would work fine. I think the transfer process would be a little slower but the end result would be similar. I'm not sure about how much one litre would hold so a little trial and error is in order. How I would use ever clear would be the same as iso 99. Put your shake or material into the freezer, same goes for the ever clear. I use my kitchenaid mixer because of the small batches. My batches are about 300g at a time. I wash the trim by using the mixer on low, for about 2 min. or so, this is where the ever clear is different and may take a little longer, like 3 or 4 min. to strip the product. Once you have washed all the product you want with your ever clear let it sit in a container overnight in the freezer. The next day all plant matter that made it through the wash will settle out, take a coffee filter and carefully pour the liquid trying not to disturb the sediment. The sediment is so fine that it will clog coffee filters like right now, so carefully pour through. There has not been any heat in the process yet. I use a rice cooker for ease of use, one litre of iso 99 takes about 25 min. to vap off and can produce upwards of 30g(depending on the material used). Heating any alcohol base product comes with risk but if you set yourself up properly and safely its about as dangerous as YOU make it. I have made this product for almost 2 years indoors in small quantities without incident, not even a drop has splashed out. With a fan in a window and using a rice cooker(no real fire source) you don't even smell that little amount your vaping off. Once it has boiled off to the point of thickening I transfer the meds into a double boiler and heat and stir until no bubbles surface. The heat of the water in the boiler is far from boiling, more likely the boiling point of the solvent used. I can stick my fingers in the water of the double boiler, your not trying to boil it, just vap off the remaining solvent. Once it had not bubbles anymore its finished and ready to use. I use 00 capsules which hold just over a 1/2g each. Two of them a day will fuck you up for awhile but after your tolerance levels goes up you will be able to double that. The drawback from this med is once your ingesting 1-2g a day, cannabis has little effects on you for enjoyment purposes. For me enjoying life a little longer is the buzz I'm looking for. I hope this helps and Good Luck

 

[420circuit]

Thanks for the info Sir, I recently jumped in by making my first batch of oil using Everclear for an alcohol extraction. I used 2 oz of crushed buds, about 1.5 L of Everclear, a fondue pot and a coffee maker. The resulting oil is quite strong about 3 hours after taking a grain of rice sized dose, even after over a week, so I am taking only at night until my tolerance builds up. Pretty sure it would be more potent if I had decarbed the buds first, they only got to about 180 degrees F during the boiling process, but this is a good first batch.
Started by growing some cannabis.
Dried and cured some Northern Lights buds.
Frozen booze poured over the buds and shaken a few times over a few minutes. I minimized this soak/shake time to decrease the amount of plant material washed off. The washed buds got added to my trim supply for making ice water hash.
The strained liquid then gets poured thru a coffee filter, the metal type.
The residue left in the filter gets added to the plant material in the trim bucket.
Then the liquid gets boiled in the fondue pot, which required a couple fans to direct the flammable vapors out the window and a close watch on the temp control to keep the boiling from getting too wild.
When it was reduced to a syrup it was poured into a ramekin, a 4 oz ceramic dish and heated on a coffee maker hot plate until it quit bubbling the alcohol off.
This oil was then sucked up in a syringe.
That's it, first batch done. I am looking into a coutertop distiller so the alcohol can be reused, it seems a shame to boil it away. The washed buds added to the yield of ice water hash, which I am making to use in tincture.

My intention is to prevent the regrowth of a glioma brain tumor with cannabis. I do not know if this will work or even help, but there is some evidence that it might. I will follow up with my experience, good or bad, by posting in several places online, hoping to help add to the body of knowledge on this subject. When the prohibition ends perhaps proper research can be done on this plant to see if the there is substance to all of the claims that it cures cancers and other diseases. In the meantime all we can do is share our methods and results and hopefully see some people cured.

 

[420circuit]

Yes, there are more effective ways to extract the oil from this plant, but I am convinced that this Everclear method is the most sensible method for most of us. The details get argued to death online, posters like yorkie get so wrapped up the finer points that the big picture can get lost. The important thing is to find out is if cannabis cures disease. Let's make some oil and find out. Let's not blow ourselves up by using butane or powerful solvents. Some folks are set up to handle dangerous chemicals, most of us are not. Thanks to everyone who posted for helping me get my first batch of oil made.

 

[wolfhoundaddy]

Wow. I am trying to separate the wheat from the chafe on this one. If one wants to get high, or if one wants to treat cancer, or if you get both results in a mix of procedures... I am reluctant to post as after this discourse I feel need of a doctorate or some other degree to weigh in. One small step toward realization of our efforts may get a chance in AZ. as our medical marijuana research is going to be allowed to be studied at our colleges. We will hold our breath on that one. Don't let that underestimate the work done in the trenches by all of us.
I would love to know how effective and what effect is accomplished with the simple method of my system (I didn't invent it, just culled it from doing my own research).
I take cured herb, decarboxylate it in the oven, then infuse it into coconut oil with heat, strain (or in my case just use a syringe to put the oil into a bottle). Done.
So far I have only made small batches, end up with 1 oz. of infused coco oil per batch. I purposely didn't add all the minute details.You Einsteins can help with that.I don't intend to smoke it, just ingest. Currently it is being used to treat someone who wants to reduce her load of anti anxiety pharmaceutical meds. It is working for that.
I like that it does not use all kinds of a stripping agents or butane.
I have read about using soy lecithin. Will this help to keep it from getting 'swampy'?. By making small batches I may not have that problem.Also I am now keeping the bulk of it in the fridge, and dole it out as needed.
I understand the intensity of this discussion, but please try to keep your eye on the ball.
Maybe once real emperical studys can be done I will know if what I use will be effective to treat cancer or prevent getting it. As of now I know it is helping with her state of mind.