What do you know about aliens?

[Padawanbater2]

Oh, nevermind. Its there. And the explanation is that free, unlimited energy of any kind violates the laws of physics. So based on the current understanding of physics and thermal dynamics, no device will ever exist.

Its a darn shame people put such confining limits on what they think is possible...

You do not understand these theories enough to make such statements. They are proven theories backed up by mathematics, they're scientific laws, the highest degree of certainty attainable by our species' most intelligent members. It's not what we think is possible, it is what we know is possible. To illustrate the point in a way that will make it easy for you to understand, if you're a male, you are as certain about that as we are about the physical laws of our universe.

Now is it smarter to go with what we know or what we think might be if what we know we know ever changes? The value of going with what we know is all around you every moment, the value of what we think we might know is yet to be seen by me.

 

[Padawanbater2]

How dishonest of you.

How could you possibly verify an unverifiable claim?

 

[Chief Walkin Eagle]

How could you possibly verify an unverifiable claim?

*sigh* We've been through this Pad. Do we gotta do this dance again?

 

[Padawanbater2]

*sigh* We've been through this Pad. Do we gotta do this dance again?

You can't...

 

[tyler.durden]

Oh, nevermind. Its there. And the explanation is that free, unlimited energy of any kind violates the laws of physics. So based on the current understanding of physics and thermal dynamics, no device will ever exist.

Its a darn shame people put such confining limits on what they think is possible...

It isn't people that place limits on what is possible, it is nature. You don't seem to understand that simply wanting things to be possible doesn't aid in them actually being possible...

For anyone actually concerned about our energy crisis, here is tonight's Nova episode, Power Surge -

http://video.pbs.org/video/1873639434/

It offered an optimistic look at possible solutions to our energy crisis and handling the dangerous emissions that we are creating. Great stuff, enjoy!

 

[mindphuk]

Oh, nevermind. Its there. And the explanation is that free, unlimited energy of any kind violates the laws of physics. So based on the current understanding of physics and thermal dynamics, no device will ever exist.

Its a darn shame people put such confining limits on what they think is possible...

Actually, if these things work, they would be introducing new physics. You can't violate the laws of physics but new ideas of how to harness known quantities such as zero point energy is within the realm of possibility. The only problem I have seen is that there have been many devices that supposedly work but have been shown to be fraudulent or not efficient, i.e requires more input than output obtained. I also have my doubts that this conspiracy exists. Why here, now, this particular branch of science? Fusion energy is not being suppressed, other scientific discoveries with arguably similar threats to the PTB are not suppressed. The charges of suppression and conspiracy have been around as long as con men have tried to profit off the scientific ignorance of others. The reason the con works is that a conspiracy in this case actually makes some sense. But virtually any new technology has the potential to take away income from some very powerful people and governments. I haven't investigated all of the claims so this is clearly an assumption on my part and I freely admit that I could be wrong but these types of 'conspiracies' seem to follow other forms of discredited science and snake oil remedies. This make makes my skeptical spidey senses tingle. It is in no way evidence against or even an argument against free energy, it just makes me want to be extremely skeptical barring any really damning evidence.

 

[guy incognito]

Most of North America believes in ghosts. Whats the difference between believing ghosts and believing in aliens? They both rely on experiences and testimonies. Your average person sees an unidentified flying object then BAM, he decides to identify it as an alien space ship, thats what most people do. Just like when your average person sees a spooky transparent girl walk into a room and disappears, most people think ghost. They tell these stories to all of their friends and family, which a lot of them have experienced something similar, multiplying the believers. Its really not all that hard to wrap your head around. Are you even trying to understand or are you too focused on doing the helicopter and challenging me to a sword fight? I hope you caught on to that one lol.

Nothing. As you said, they both rely on experiences and testimony, and in 100% of cases the cause is something completely natural. Never has any evidence ever been found for aliens or ghosts. Yet people still believe in them. THAT is what is hard to wrap your head around.

 

[guy incognito]

I don't even understand the concept of a device that can harness zero point energy. zero point energy is the lowest possible energy state any system can have, correct? So if you harness some of that energy, won't the system be below the zero point energy (ie the lowest possible energy state)? How does that even make sense?

 

[Beefbisquit]

I've always been interested in harnessing naturally occurring energy. Solar, geo-thermal, hydro, it's already there - why not use it?

Ever see the 'solar road' idea? If all the roads in the lower 48 states were solar roads, it would produce enough energy (@ 15% efficiency) to power the entire nation three times over, annually. Almost enough power to power the entire world. They can also power electric cars so they would no longer have a range.

[video=youtube_share;Ep4L18zOEYI]http://youtu.be/Ep4L18zOEYI[/video]

 

[guy incognito]

I somehow suspect the cost of building all those roads would exceed the cost of the coal and oil required to power the usa.

 

[Beefbisquit]

I somehow suspect the cost of building all those roads would exceed the cost of the coal and oil required to power the usa.

They're about x3 as expensive as current roads. Costs are dropping though, as the technology becomes easier to produce.

 

[Padawanbater2]

I somehow suspect the cost of building all those roads would exceed the cost of the coal and oil required to power the usa.

The amount of energy paid back would far outweigh the cost of installing them

 

[guy incognito]

The amount of energy paid back would far outweigh the cost of installing them

I don't know about that. It seems like an unimaginable feat to replace every road in the continental usa. The amount of materials and labor would be insane. It takes a whole fucking summer to replace a 1 mile stretch of road by my house, I cannot fathom how every road surface could be replaced coast to coast.

Why hasn't it been done yet? If it makes economical sense, why isn't someone installing these roads and profiting from them?

 

[guy incognito]

In 2010 primary energy usage in the united states was 25,776 TWh, which is about 2.6*10^12 Wh, or 2.6*10^9 kWh.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Energy_in_the_United_States

2.6*10^9 Kwh X 0.12 $/kwh = $3.12 Billion

The state of michigan has an annual road budget of $3.3 Billion.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michigan_Department_of_Transportation

That means you could purchase all of the primary energy usage of the united states (for 2010) at the residential cost I pay for electricity, and still have almost $200M left out of michigans annual road budget. That leaves 47 other state road budgets completely untouched.

It sounds good in theory, but I think the cost of energy is still way too cheap for it to make economical sense.

 

[Beefbisquit]

They use materials from landfills as the base for the roads, so that would help eliminate waste.

The panels would eliminate the need for power lines, telecommunications lines, etc. and if all of the roads were done, you could shut down all other power plants in the country.

It would also allow for regenerative electric vehicles that could literally drive for an indefinite amount of time.


It's sure a cool idea; I hope the cost to produce them drops substantially. I'm also really curious to see how the glass would hold up to braking and accidents.

 

[guy incognito]

I cannot imagine the ongoing maintenance cost either. 90% of the roads by me are busted up and have cracks and pot holes. They are still drivable, but I cannot see a solar road still functioning if left to deteriorate to those levels. And that is with a $3.3B budget.

 

[Beefbisquit]

I cannot imagine the ongoing maintenance cost either. 90% of the roads by me are busted up and have cracks and pot holes. They are still drivable, but I cannot see a solar road still functioning if left to deteriorate to those levels. And that is with a $3.3B budget.

It's all speculation at this point. Maybe the glass has an extremely long life compared to asphalt.... not really sure. I know they've successfully done concrete roads, they were more expensive too, but the life is far greater.

 

[guy incognito]

They use materials from landfills as the base for the roads, so that would help eliminate waste.

The panels would eliminate the need for power lines, telecommunications lines, etc. and if all of the roads were done, you could shut down all other power plants in the country.

It would also allow for regenerative electric vehicles that could literally drive for an indefinite amount of time.


It's sure a cool idea; I hope the cost to produce them drops substantially. I'm also really curious to see how the glass would hold up to braking and accidents.

I seriously doubt they will completely eliminate the need for power lines. What good does an assload of energy do anyone out in arizona where they have long stretches of road in ridiculously sunny areas? You are going to route all of that through a network of roads to places that need the power?

Also what do you do when it is night time? In winter the sun will set on the west coast, and not rise again on the east coast for like 12 hours. Plus it will be winter so even when the sun does rise a significant portion of it will be blocked by clouds. And if it's not blocked the panels will not be anywhere close to the proper angle to collect sunlight the most efficiently. Where does all the power come from during that period? You definitely will need a lot of power plants still on line.

 

[Beefbisquit]

I seriously doubt they will completely eliminate the need for power lines. What good does an assload of energy do anyone out in arizona where they have long stretches of road in ridiculously sunny areas? You are going to route all of that through a network of roads to places that need the power?

Also what do you do when it is night time? In winter the sun will set on the west coast, and not rise again on the east coast for like 12 hours. Plus it will be winter so even when the sun does rise a significant portion of it will be blocked by clouds. And if it's not blocked the panels will not be anywhere close to the proper angle to collect sunlight the most efficiently. Where does all the power come from during that period? You definitely will need a lot of power plants still on line.

Dude, I don't know. No idea.

But these guys seem to have thought it out quite well, hence all the grants they've received to continue their work. I'm not saying this will fix every energy problem we have, but in certain areas this could be exceptional.

If all the roads in the USA were these panels they could almost power the entire world; but what if just California, Arizona, Texas, and Florida picked a few spots to implement this technology? Pretty much never snows, relatively close to the equator. There would have to either be some sort of storage facility, battery bank, or something to supplement the solar power, I would imagine. Hell, make a gigantic flywheel to store the energy at night... lol

It wouldn't be an overnight job, there would have to be stages and a lot of planning. Just a neat idea, that would make use of 'dead space' in an efficient way.

Probably wouldn't eliminate the need for power lines until it was very developed, and in virtually all areas. Cities often have underground power lines, so it's not a stretch to imagine it possible that rural areas could also have underground power/utilities as well.

 

[guy incognito]

It's definitely a neat idea. And with the added road and utilities budget (which we pay anyway) to subsidize it, it might actually make it economically feasible. I remain skeptical though. I doubt we will see this for a long time.