Tags High Efficiency Lighting Garden

[tags420]

I saw that in the tga by others. Looks good.

My AOS started by day 15ish
Here is from day 18 and it's hard to tell but the inside flower is purple then bright white hars covering it.

I also ran black berry soda(blackberry clone x BCS male) starts turning by week2/3. but not as hairy.
Here is day 22 and it's already purple from the inside out and is the darkest strain ever pretty much.


Both my, BBS and AOS smelled identical. So I'm pretty sure that the BCS is the main contributor. Both also through nanners at the end and that is why the original breeder of the BCS line(sunny cheba) doesn't work with it anymore. and also probably why Sub went to urkle for his newer purple crosses. But one of the most purple strains for sure.

 

[DLOPEZ1420]

I saw that in the tga by others. Looks good.

My AOS started by day 15ish
Here is from day 18 and it's hard to tell but the inside flower is purple then bright white hars covering it.
View attachment 2804402
I also ran black berry soda(blackberry clone x BCS male) starts turning by week2/3. but not as hairy.
Here is day 22 and it's already purple from the inside out and is the darkest strain ever pretty much.
View attachment 2804404

Both my, BBS and AOS smelled identical. So I'm pretty sure that the BCS is the main contributor. Both also through nanners at the end and that is why the original breeder of the BCS line(sunny cheba) doesn't work with it anymore. and also probably why Sub went to urkle for his newer purple crosses. But one of the most purple strains for sure.

I think we might have the same phenos.. wgat day did u take ur AOS too? Btw beautiful flowers my man..

 

[tags420]

I started to get some problems at the very end so I chopped at day53. It wasn't early, just toward the beginning of he harvest window. They needed more light...I stretched the coverage of my led's too much and suffered in the yield department a little. But super beautiful flower.

 

[Someacdude]

I started to get some problems at the very end so I chopped at day53. It wasn't early, just toward the beginning of he harvest window. They needed more light...I stretched the coverage of my led's too much and suffered in the yield department a little. But super beautiful flower.

Right on, so lets say im going to do two 4x8 trays with 20 plants each, what do you think i would need to do it right. Im also going to add a few side led floods on one 8 foot span each and rotate the plants.
Awesome job, this is exactly what i wanted to do only i just made a bunch of supersoil, beefed it up too, should be killer, just got back from the beach and im drying kelp..
Thanks for the info

 

[tags420]

Super soil is awesome.
Do you have lights already or getting them?
With a space that big and you wanting to do it right, meaning what 1000w's would do... it will take a good amount of light/lights and $$. I would do 4 at660's. 2 over each 4x8. Maybe 12(6 on each tray) at200's or even a51sgs if trying to save.

 

[PurpleBuz]

I put the at660 up over the Jilly's. It's everything I have wanted. I will get something flowering under it soon. I also did some quick readings of my 600w hps.

Hey tags whats your "ideal" Par readings at the canopy ? 1,000, 1500 , 2000 umoles? I think I may have excess light, no bleaching or anything but maybe wasting a few dollars of electricity. How do you like that apogee quantum meter ? Thinking of getting one.

 

[Scotch089]

^^i just ordered one Monday, estimated to be here by Friday!

very excited to play around, the MQ-200 seems to be the one people are using, there are couple variations so be careful; but they're like 332 on eBay.

And thank you for askin that question, I am not for certain myself, but I think 500, 800, and 1k is what I remember being said?

im interested in veg #'s too tags, if you do have some insight.

 

[tags420]

Me and chaz have been debating par and spectral importances lately- https://www.thcfarmer.com/community/threads/led-questions.57351/. Just skim for mine and chaz's mostly.

Photons(measure in umols) are necessary for growth...how much is debatable, but the sun does 2000umols, so honestly I think we have some room before it way too much imo.

But when comparing to indoor sources, nothing grows like a 1000w hps (yet). And they do 1000+/-umols@24" so that is goal to start with. I believe that 70% of that shitty hps spectrum is still useable, meaning ~700umol being used. So it can maybe be thought that 700umols of a high photosynthetically targeted spectrum(90%+usable) could be comparable to 1000umols from hps. But that 700umols would have to be coming from 24" as well to be comparable. But other than that all just being theory, what is an actual "efficient" spectrum is highly debated. At best spectral efficiencies can only make up for so much, and a certain umol value is still needed to get the growth(and led's have no problem making great spectrums).
One thing that you can't forget is umol coverage also...meaning is it equal all the way around the canopy, not just center. That is where most led's have really been falling short.

With all that being said I think mj will take 1500-1800umols, as long as the rest of the growing environment/system keeps up with the light supplied. Maybe like 1000-1300umol for non co2 beefed up systems possibly. From what I have been doing myself and seen from others, there is a good difference between plants getting 800-1000umols and one getting only 550-700umols. But even that could be improved.

One thing that could have an effect on plant response is distance from the soucre. I have no evidence to back this up, just a random though based on dawgs findings and bleching theories, but maybe 1000umols@24" would be recepted better by the plants than 1000umols@12".

That is why I think that making close to idetical with 1000w hps(center umol, umol coverage, distance form source) is the goal. We can meet all of those by still using less watts to do it and that is the point...to get the same(or better) from less.

Also has any one ever thought about strains being climatized? Most strains have been breed indoors under hps, some outdoor. And it is a fact that over just a few generations in the same place/conditions a strain gets better for the environment it's in. Well light is part of that, and maybe a strain could evolve to use led's even better if given a generation or two. Meaning they could take more of our powerful led light(1800umol) if given the time to adapt. And just going beans instead of clones(used to hps) could be a difference, if cracking a fresh bean and giving it intense light form the beginning it will tolerate and use more than one sprouted under lesser conditions.

 

[DLOPEZ1420]

Me and chaz have been debating par and spectral importances lately- https://www.thcfarmer.com/community/threads/led-questions.57351/. Just skim for mine and chaz's mostly.

Photons(measure in umols) are necessary for growth...how much is debatable, but the sun does 2000umols, so honestly I think we have some room before it way too much imo.

But when comparing to indoor sources, nothing grows like a 1000w hps (yet). And they do 1000+/-umols@24" so that is goal to start with. I believe that 70% of that shitty hps spectrum is still useable, meaning ~700umol being used. So it can maybe be thought that 700umols of a high photosynthetically targeted spectrum(90%+usable) could be comparable to 1000umols from hps. But that 700umols would have to be coming from 24" as well to be comparable. But other than that all just being theory, what is an actual "efficient" spectrum is highly debated. At best spectral efficiencies can only make up for so much, and a certain umol value is still needed to get the growth(and led's have no problem making great spectrums).
One thing that you can't forget is umol coverage also...meaning is it equal all the way around the canopy, not just center. That is where most led's have really been falling short.

With all that being said I think mj will take 1500-1800umols, as long as the rest of the growing environment/system keeps up with the light supplied. Maybe like 1000-1300umol for non co2 beefed up systems possibly. From what I have been doing myself and seen from others, there is a good difference between plants getting 800-1000umols and one getting only 550-700umols. But even that could be improved.

One thing that could have an effect on plant response is distance from the soucre. I have no evidence to back this up, just a random though based on dawgs findings and bleching theories, but maybe 1000umols@24" would be recepted better by the plants than 1000umols@12".

That is why I think that making close to idetical with 1000w hps(center umol, umol coverage, distance form source) is the goal. We can meet all of those by still using less watts to do it and that is the point...to get the same(or better) from less.

Also has any one ever thought about strains being climatized? Most strains have been breed indoors under hps, some outdoor. And it is a fact that over just a few generations in the same place/conditions a strain gets better for the environment it's in. Well light is part of that, and maybe a strain could evolve to use led's even better if given a generation or two. Meaning they could take more of our powerful led light(1800umol) if given the time to adapt. And just going beans instead of clones(used to hps) could be a difference, if cracking a fresh bean and giving it intense light form the beginning it will tolerate and use more than one sprouted under lesser conditions.

+1 rep... great info thanks.

 

[tags420]

I love my meter. Apogee is making ones for apache that are calibrated to their spectrum to be the most accurate possible. The standard calibrations are just a little off for the blue region. It's not a huge difference so the standard one is fine for what we are using them for. Field scout makes a good affordable one, <200$. But the apogee is very nice and is my choice if you have the cash for it.

For veg #'s I have been running ~500umol but would give more if I got the coverage I needed. Rough estimate about 65% of flower power. I haven't put much thought into veg numbers other than I know when I add another AT to my veg space it make a difference in speed of growth for sure.

 

[PurpleBuz]

For veg #'s I have been running ~500umol but would give more if I got the coverage I needed. Rough estimate about 65% of flower power. I haven't put much thought into veg numbers other than I know when I add another AT to my veg space it make a difference in speed of growth for sure.

Thanks for the input on the meter. I wasn't looking for umols in veg, I use T5s in veg I was wondering about how many umols your hoping for in full Flower P ?

 

[tags420]

Thanks for the input on the meter. I wasn't looking for umols in veg, I use T5s in veg I was wondering about how many umols your hoping for in full Flower P ?

You missed my long post bro...

Me and chaz have been debating par and spectral importances lately- https://www.thcfarmer.com/community/threads/led-questions.57351/. Just skim for mine and chaz's mostly.

Photons(measure in umols) are necessary for growth...how much is debatable, but the sun does 2000umols, so honestly I think we have some room before it way too much imo.

But when comparing to indoor sources, nothing grows like a 1000w hps (yet). And they do 1000+/-umols@24" so that is goal to start with. I believe that 70% of that shitty hps spectrum is still useable, meaning ~700umol being used. So it can maybe be thought that 700umols of a high photosynthetically targeted spectrum(90%+usable) could be comparable to 1000umols from hps. But that 700umols would have to be coming from 24" as well to be comparable. But other than that all just being theory, what is an actual "efficient" spectrum is highly debated. At best spectral efficiencies can only make up for so much, and a certain umol value is still needed to get the growth(and led's have no problem making great spectrums).
One thing that you can't forget is umol coverage also...meaning is it equal all the way around the canopy, not just center. That is where most led's have really been falling short.

With all that being said I think mj will take 1500-1800umols, as long as the rest of the growing environment/system keeps up with the light supplied. Maybe like 1000-1300umol for non co2 beefed up systems possibly. From what I have been doing myself and seen from others, there is a good difference between plants getting 800-1000umols and one getting only 550-700umols. But even that could be improved.

One thing that could have an effect on plant response is distance from the soucre. I have no evidence to back this up, just a random though based on dawgs findings and bleching theories, but maybe 1000umols@24" would be recepted better by the plants than 1000umols@12".

That is why I think that making close to idetical with 1000w hps(center umol, umol coverage, distance form source) is the goal. We can meet all of those by still using less watts to do it and that is the point...to get the same(or better) from less.

Also has any one ever thought about strains being climatized? Most strains have been breed indoors under hps, some outdoor. And it is a fact that over just a few generations in the same place/conditions a strain gets better for the environment it's in. Well light is part of that, and maybe a strain could evolve to use led's even better if given a generation or two. Meaning they could take more of our powerful led light(1800umol) if given the time to adapt. And just going beans instead of clones(used to hps) could be a difference, if cracking a fresh bean and giving it intense light form the beginning it will tolerate and use more than one sprouted under lesser conditions.

While I was writing that scotch posted...

^^i just ordered one Monday, estimated to be here by Friday!

very excited to play around, the MQ-200 seems to be the one people are using, there are couple variations so be careful; but they're like 332 on eBay.

And thank you for askin that question, I am not for certain myself, but I think 500, 800, and 1k is what I remember being said?

im interested in veg #'s too tags, if you do have some insight.

Which is why I said veg numbers. And also commented on the meters.

 

[PurpleBuz]

yah I guess I did miss your long post. enlighting, as well as the thc farmer thread thanks for sharing.

now gotta go get my PAR meter and see how much light I'm getting at the canopy.

 

[tags420]

I have been chatting with gavita a little about par readings...

"Dear ****,
The ppfd you will read under a lamp depends on the reflector, so it is impossible to compare based on a ppfd measurement at a distance. I have not seen any LED fixtures yet that have a better spectrum and are more efficient than Pro-line HPS, not even at the same power. As said, ppfd at a distance doesn't say anything.
The recommended height from the crop for the pro-1000 is about 80-90 cm, depending is you overlap or not. 2000 umol s-1 m-2 is 30% above the saturation level. We recommend 1000 umol m-2 s-1.
The only thing you can do is measure in a dark room om a given footprint, do a matrix measurement (at least about 40 measurements) and average them over the lit surface.
It would be handy if manufacturers just publish their ppf. We measured Hortilux at a bit lower than 1800 umol s-1 @ 1000W lamp power."
​

Pretty much goes right with my umol theory.
They are a nice company, and for hps are the best for sure...but honestly they can't think their spectrum is better than led's.

 

[Beefbisquit]

I have been chatting with gavita a little about par readings...

"Dear ****,
The ppfd you will read under a lamp depends on the reflector, so it is impossible to compare based on a ppfd measurement at a distance. I have not seen any LED fixtures yet that have a better spectrum and are more efficient than Pro-line HPS, not even at the same power. As said, ppfd at a distance doesn't say anything.
The recommended height from the crop for the pro-1000 is about 80-90 cm, depending is you overlap or not. 2000 umol s-1 m-2 is 30% above the saturation level. We recommend 1000 umol m-2 s-1.
The only thing you can do is measure in a dark room om a given footprint, do a matrix measurement (at least about 40 measurements) and average them over the lit surface.
It would be handy if manufacturers just publish their ppf. We measured Hortilux at a bit lower than 1800 umol s-1 @ 1000W lamp power."
​

Pretty much goes right with my umol theory.
They are a nice company, and for hps are the best for sure...but honestly they can't think their spectrum is better than led's.

1200W for that power draw on that HPS..... sweet jesus....

 

[PetFlora]

Where leds have a decided advantage is they are oriented in one direction. Plus, unless one is using 60-90* lenses, leds can be placed much closer to the canopy, and of course their lack of radiant heat

I have been chatting with gavita a little about par readings...

"Dear ****,
The ppfd you will read under a lamp depends on the reflector, so it is impossible to compare based on a ppfd measurement at a distance. I have not seen any LED fixtures yet that have a better spectrum and are more efficient than Pro-line HPS, not even at the same power. As said, ppfd at a distance doesn't say anything.
The recommended height from the crop for the pro-1000 is about 80-90 cm, depending is you overlap or not. 2000 umol s-1 m-2 is 30% above the saturation level. We recommend 1000 umol m-2 s-1.
The only thing you can do is measure in a dark room om a given footprint, do a matrix measurement (at least about 40 measurements) and average them over the lit surface.
It would be handy if manufacturers just publish their ppf. We measured Hortilux at a bit lower than 1800 umol s-1 @ 1000W lamp power."
​

Pretty much goes right with my umol theory.
They are a nice company, and for hps are the best for sure...but honestly they can't think their spectrum is better than led's.

 

[chazbolin]

Hey Tags! Gavita huh? I thought all that spirited debate was just between us? Well done! Do me a favor and ask them to point to their exact reference on where they got that saturation level. I'd appreciate it.

It would be handy if manufacturers just publish their ppf.

I like it...'handy'...it's a start!

 

[tags420]

1200W for that power draw on that HPS..... sweet jesus....

Seems like a lot, but 1100w is what normal overdrive is...But with gavita(phillips bulb) is meant to run that high and won't kill the bulb. I know lots of led'er are in small spaces...but getting led's into the hands of 1000w commercial like growers is what needs to happen. So when looking at 1200w...660w(at660) is still pretty damn low.

Where leds have a decided advantage is they are oriented in one direction. Plus, unless one is using 60-90* lenses, leds can be placed much closer to the canopy, and of course their lack of radiant heat

That's why I asked about ppfd and not ppf. Inside a ulbritch sphere(how ppf is measured) with an led panel is pointless.

Hey Tags! Gavita huh? I thought all that spirited debate was just between us? Well done! Do me a favor and ask them to point to their exact reference on where they got that saturation level. I'd appreciate it.
I like it...'handy'...it's a start!

They are the best no doubt about it for hps so I figured I would see what they were up to. They are the only HID company to really focus on any kind of plant growth science and not just brightness.

Here is the whole email conversation...

ME-

How do you get your umol numbers...what distance from the quantum sensor are they measured(ppfd)?
​

GAVITA-

there is a difference in ppf and ppfd. ppf is the total output of the lamp, an dwe measure that with an ulbricht sphere. ppfd can be measured anywhere and is an indication of the local intensity. So, what you see with for example LED manufacturers that claim ppfd at a certain distance: this is not a measure of the output of the lamp, because you do not know what the total surface is that is lit. For example, the 300 umol s-1 LEP lamp can easily reach 2000 umol m-2 s-1 close to the lamp.

You can only get the ppf (total output of a lamp) by measuring it in an Ulbricht Sphere. Your quantum meter will show you ppfd at a certain distance. To calculate ppfd you take the ppf from the lamp/reflector combination and divide that by the surface you are illuminating, so you go from ppf to ppfd (ppf per square meter) it's like lumen and lux: lux is lumen per square meter.

A good read on our website: ​

www.gavita-holland.com/index.php/item/lumens-are-for-humans.html

ME-

I know about photosynthesis and what is needed(photons) and a quantum meter(ppfd) is the most practical and applicable thing for a gardener like me to measure them with. If the distance from the sources are equal, 24", you can use ppfd as a more effective tool for what will actually getting to the crop.
I was asking because with a hortilux 1000w, solistek ballast, and OG reflector, you can achieve 2000umols(ppfd)@24" and yours said 2000umol ppf. I need a ppfd reading from 24" or recomended hanging height for a high light intensity indoor crop.

Also there is an led company(apache) that has a light that is putting out as more umols@24" all over a 4x4 footprint than most digital 1000w hps but also in a great spectrum. So I am curious what the 1000w gavita with the double ended bulb does in comparison to the other top 1000w and this new led.​

GAVITA-

The ppfd you will read under a lamp depends on the reflector, so it is impossible to compare based on a ppfd measurement at a distance. I have not seen any LED fixtures yet that have a better spectrum and are more efficient than Pro-line HPS, not even at the same power. As said, ppfd at a distance doesn't say anything.

The recommended height from the crop for the pro-1000 is about 80-90 cm, depending is you overlap or not. 2000 umol s-1 m-2 is 30% above the saturation level. We recommend 1000 umol m-2 s-1.

The only thing you can do is measure in a dark room om a given footprint, do a matrix measurement (at least about 40 measurements) and average them over the lit surface.

It would be handy if manufacturers just publish their ppf. We measured Hortilux at a bit lower than 1800 umol s-1 @ 1000W lamp power.
​

I try to not come off like I have a separate agenda/know just as much as them, but I hate when they talk to me like I'm 5.
I'll see what they have to say about the saturation level. I have some theories but I'll wait to see what they say first.

 

[tags420]

The Indagro room is coming to the end. Looks good, about a week to go.
[video=youtube_share;rymrwkP0JIw]http://youtu.be/rymrwkP0JIw[/video]












Pretty sexy right? Despite this strains record low yields(indoor and out), Greengenes is still keeping a mom for himself. It really is great smoke. Can't wait to try IG bud vs hps bud vs outdoor.

 

[FuckJeffGoldbloom]

Damn sexy!