human shitbag ariel castro hangs self

[Red1966]

I think you are all mistaken if you think incarceration, execution, etc. is solely to punish anti-social behavior. While generations have tried to espouse that idea, it is wrong. Punishment is to detour such behavior. In early times, the mutilated bodies of criminals were hung from trees and posts at the edges of towns, to warn all that entered that misbehavior would not be tolerated. If we want the full deterrent effect, we should make punishment public as it once was.

 

[cannabineer]

I think you are all mistaken if you think incarceration, execution, etc. is solely to punish anti-social behavior. While generations have tried to espouse that idea, it is wrong. Punishment is to detour such behavior. In early times, the mutilated bodies of criminals were hung from trees and posts at the edges of towns, to warn all that entered that misbehavior would not be tolerated. If we want the full deterrent effect, we should make punishment public as it once was.

Perhaps punishment is the wrong tack. Rehabilitation is the ideal, even if it's hard to do. For those who cannot or will not be rehabilitated, let's separate them from the ability to harm open society but in some reasonable comfort (fed, clothed, warm) and without idea of revenge. For revenge to work, the criminal would need to be capable of remorse. Punishing the remorseless has no effect but to make the punishers feel better at the target's expense. That is not humane.

 

[Red1966]

Rehabilitation doesn't have very much success. It doesn't have any deterrent effect. Your ideas may make you feel good, but without effective deterrence, crime would soar. "Punishing the remorseless" does have an effect if you do it right.

 

[cannabineer]

Rehabilitation doesn't have very much success. It doesn't have any deterrent effect. Your ideas may make you feel good, but without effective deterrence, crime would soar.

"Be rehabilitated or be removed" will have deterrent effect. "Be tortured" laid upon "be removed" will not boost that effect.

 

[Red1966]

"Be rehabilitated or be removed" will have deterrent effect. "Be tortured" laid upon "be removed" will not boost that effect.

So does summary execution. Rehabilitation means you will give the opportunity to transgress again. I never condoned torture. "be removed" thru incarceration or execution absolutely stops repeat transgression.

 

[cannabineer]

So does summary execution. Rehabilitation means you will give the opportunity to transgress again. I never condoned torture. "be removed" thru incarceration or execution absolutely stops repeat transgression.

I distinguish between actual and pro forma rehabilitation. Throwing offenders into g-pop with the more experienced monsters isn't rehabilitation.

 

[Red1966]

I agree. But a slow, painful, public execution for the "more experienced monsters" will certainly have a deterrent effect on all those who view it. Watching a loved one die from lung cancer made me stop smoking.

 

[cannabineer]

I agree. But a slow, painful, public execution for the "more experienced monsters" will certainly have a deterrent effect on all those who view it. Watching a loved one die from lung cancer made me stop smoking.

I won't agree because I know that I am just such a monster, but one who chooses not to act like that. I have an understandble self-protection impulse. So when you talk about a slow, painful and public death, i see myself in the torturee's shoes ... and I say No. I would rather have other humans (and Ariel is cloth of my cloth) treat me the way I'll be expected to treat them.
As others above have already explained, the standard is held to all of us, or to none. I can't and won't participate in the division of humans into Real and Sub-grade. I am learnng to embrace the sapient animal that is I. The only bottom to my atrocity is daily choice and not some moral overlay.

 

[minnesmoker]

Rehabilitation doesn't have very much success. It doesn't have any deterrent effect. Your ideas may make you feel good, but without effective deterrence, crime would soar. "Punishing the remorseless" does have an effect if you do it right.

The fuck? Rehabilitation starts BEFORE the "monster" becomes a social pariah. Not once a person's in the system, not once they've had a chance to devour the lives and souls of others. I've had a chance to sample this nation's platter of "rehabilitation." I've also met those that were a part of pre-Reagan "rehabilitation" (aka lobotomized patients, electro-shocked patients, and experimental drug patients.) Met each and every one in libraries, or bus stations, travelling the underbelly of the nation, fucked up because prisons and bombs are more important than understanding that human beings are NOT a static creature, we're an evolving species, and we shouldn't have our brains scrambled just because we're different.

And, again, I aver. You start talking about lining up monsters in droves, to shoot them as "examples" and guess what you're going to get? Ultraviolence. A bit of the old in-n-out, and a whole lotta' blood. "Monsters" are just that. You trip a group's collective self defense mechanism and it'll get ugly. Of course, it's a mostly moot argument. Those in power, setting pen to paper know that THEY have the same "mental defect" allowing them to ascend to power and fame as the monster at the other end, turning into a mindless killing machine. No Governor wants to sign his own death warrant.

A lot of people don't realize a few things. We tried the "set an example." That DOES NOT WORK. If you cut a thieve's hand off, you create a bandit, and a leader of other bandits. The risk:reward factor is balanced, when GBH may be the punishment for either crime. This is why we don't execute rapists and child molesters, or kidnappers (with rare federal exceptions, and Louisiana.) You see, if you give a monster the choice of letting the victim go, with threats, and knowing the WORST is life w/o, you still know you aren't going to be killed by the state. When you remove the disincentive to leave the victim alive, you get more dead victims.

 

[Red1966]

I'm not advocating torture. I just disagree that extraordinary means must be used such that the executed deserve a completely painless death. The idea that the death penalty is "cruel and unusual" is wrong. Death is universal.

 

[minnesmoker]

I agree. But a slow, painful, public execution for the "more experienced monsters" will certainly have a deterrent effect on all those who view it. Watching a loved one die from lung cancer made me stop smoking.

You misunderstand and cannot comprehend the nature of the beast you are confronting. It's unfeeling, has no empathy, has no care, and only knows self preservation, when not locked in it's lust for satisfaction. We aren't talking about "humans," and, you have NO, absolutely, and positively NO chance of that working. Here's why: You want to kill US in public? We don't mind sacrificing our own, for our personal preservation. Your little "executions" will become targets. So will those people associated with it. They've tried to sweep out "monsters" in areas before, it doesn't end well.

 

[cannabineer]

I'm not advocating torture.

Then I misunderstood your "slow, painful and public" death. That combines both elements of torture: hurting and shaming. Please play again.

I just disagree that extraordinary means must be used such that the executed deserve a completely painless death. The idea that the death penalty is "cruel and unusual" is wrong. Death is universal.

But is penalty? No.

 

[minnesmoker]

I've reached enlightenment. I know the sound of clapping with one hand. I know that we cannot, by our breath of protest, change a coarse wind's direction. I'm outta this one. Remember, we make the bed we sleep in. When we wish something upon someone, we open karma to return that same punishment on ourselves.

 

[Red1966]

Death comes to all. It is neither cruel nor unusual. For some, it is the only way to stop them. Karma is bullshit.

 

[minnesmoker]

REDACTED.

No need to stoop to human levels.

 

[Skuxx]

I agree. But a slow, painful, public execution for the "more experienced monsters" will certainly have a deterrent effect on all those who view it. Watching a loved one die from lung cancer made me stop smoking.

Wouldn't it be kind of funny if you still got lung cancer??? Not trying to be a dick... just... it would be kind of funny.

 

[Red1966]

Then I misunderstood your "slow, painful and public" death. That combines both elements of torture: hurting and shaming. Please play again. But is penalty? No.

Not as penalty, but as deterrence. Humanity requires a quick death. But not completely painless. Firing squads cause a second or two of pain, but are not inhumane.

 

[Red1966]

Wouldn't it be kind of funny if you still got lung cancer??? Not trying to be a dick... just... it would be kind of funny.

Would it be funny if YOU got lung cancer?

 

[minnesmoker]

Dude kept calling my cell phone "Hello, is this dr. mumblesomething?" Me, "No, please, quit calling, I'm going to reschedule you, and hopefully you'll get cancer and that'll cause you to die, if you keep calling." Him: "Well son, I already have cancer, so..." (I'm rude, I pay my cell phone bill, I can be rude on it. I interrupted the old fucker.) "Good, your appointment has been rescheduled to fuck off and die." and I hung up.

Only time I laughed at cancer.

 

[UncleBuck]

...a slow, painful, public execution...

I'm not advocating torture.

so much for the 8th amendment...or attaching actual meaning to words.