Earth Gains A Record Amount Of Sea Ice In 2013

[Dr Kynes]

To my knowledge all pressecion does is move the position of the Sunrise/set slightly on solstice's (easiest to measure on solstice)

Now you could have picked any arbitrary value and do the same calculation ala any numerologist for no seeming reason

Until I can find a reference to what your talking about I'm staying reserved as I do not want to commit bad knowledge to memory

facts are very important

the precession of the equinoxes has a LOT to do witth the climate, currently, at perahelion, the northern hemisphere is pointed at the sun, giving the north (earth's largest land masses) cool summers (summer solstice nearing aphelion) and warm winters (winter solstice approaching perahelion) on the orbital path.

when the precession advances to the other side, with perahelion approaching the northern hemisphere's summer, we will have cooler winters and hotter summers.

naturally, this effect is reversed in the southern hemisphere, and the tropic wont notice any differences in their general climate.


BUUUUT.....

sunlight falling on mostly ocean gets stored as Heat Energy (ZOMG!! NOOO!!!), and sunlight falling on about 50/50 ocean and land reacts in complex ways.

peek at a globe and you will note, Plate Tectonics Be Racist! putting most of the land mass (outside the tropics) in the Northern Hemisphere.

the southern hemisphere remains MOSTLY (and in this case "mostly" actually means predominantly, a higher proportion of, approaching exclusivity) WATER so while the southern oceans get Hotter summers and Colder winters, making those lands less hospitable (That's Racist!), the southern hemisphere's current position in the precession also results in a gradual warming of the oceans, which in turn reduces the CO2 carrying capacity of the oceans, which in turn causes more greenhouse warming, which in turn causes the release of Moar Co2 from the Benthic Sink.

when the northern hemisphere (the Good hemisphere naturally, Damn you White People!!) has warm winters and cool summers, plants grow on the larger land area, corals grow faster in the overall shallower seas, and glaciations worldwide retreat.
if land area were more Equally Distributed (No Justice, No Peace! End Racist Continental Distribution!) then yes., the precession of the equinoxes would be largely a give and take, with far less dramatic results.

this is the essence of the milankovic cycle and it's effect on glaciations and climate (as i understand it).


DOER! yo, check this shit out!
http://profhorn.meteor.wisc.edu/wxwise/climate/earthorbit.html

 

[Dr Kynes]

Well it's daily mail for a bad start science they can't do well

ad hominem. dispute the claim not the person.
after all even a stopped clock is right twice a day.

The green graph does not say which models he's using and I cannot find (yet) a link to anywhere that lists which models he's showing. That's not good

bad sourcing and half assed citations are a Plague Upon This Earth.

As to the supposed leaked IPCC report?

leaks suck.

I'm not going to take daily mails word or opinion on what it says I'm going to wait till it's released in just over a week

good idea.
but when is is released officially i predict a whole lot of "We had to exaggerate the claims, so people would get The Message!", "The Message is so important, extreme measures are warranted to make sure everybody understands The Message!", and "Gaia is Angry!!RRRaaaaAAAAwRRR!!"

 

[ginjawarrior]

What's this a bait and switch? Instead of link for extra day I get a vague rambling manipulative screed

I like how you go on about how you haven't made up you mind and that we can talk

Then at end of unsubstantiated tirade you demand I agree with you

You want civility from me? Don't try to feed me this bullshit

Well, look, I know you don't believe it but I am an actual scientist....it happens to be, Computer Science, is what pays, but I have been deeply trained over 40 years of my career in Method. And of course, I was highly educated before that.

So, when we are reasonable together we can come to understanding. And Mr. E can tell us, even a jerk like me can change his mind based on evidence. And that still does not mean I chose a side.

So, I synthesize, from my own, not too small skills. That is why I can't provide just a single link to parrot. I am out beyond that. I research. No brag, just facts. I did the math when I discovered these precession data. I remembered my Dad's stories. It has nothing to do with Sunrise and Sunset or the calendar days of Solstice.

It is why we throw in the Leap Year.... It is why I used .98 days instead....my goodness. Simple logic. If you don't have that, you are lost in Politics.

Like the Cloud effect we argued about last year, well you argued, it is not a DONE DEAL. We are studying. But, like Cloud Effect, the Milutin Milankovitch cycle has been discounted for the politics and that is why you have trouble.

If you are honest with yourself, you have made up your mind, right? I have not. I dig deeper and it is not so Pat. It is not so cut and dried. Cloud Effect on ice and reflection (albedo) is not factored in to the current Myth. And the M-cycle is not accounted for either, in the DONE DEAL, of AGW.

So, can we even measure the warming? Yes, I guess. But, I read the Berkeley study differently and I've read the entire thing. Have you? It is still a toss up as to what is next, meaning 500 years. And it seems pretty sure, that 1) based on Exa-joules of Global energy exchanged, vs how much we are retaining and 2) the EJ output of mankind, we are not directly contributing. We represent the drop in the bucket.

So, again, this is not taking sides in a political debate. It is the discussion of variables the One Side, that is pushing this, ignores.

Finally, what difference can it make? We don't really know if man contributes indirectly even, the Carbon butterfly sneeze. But we do know Al Gore is getting rich.

So, the entire thing is false to me. It is a collision of the oil economy with the new Age thinkers, with few facts.

It has nothing to do with the Climate Change, that is just smoke screen, imo. The AGW Agenda is after Big Oil.

Do you admit it?

 

[Doer]

The link is here. It is calculated. I posted the links were I got the data to do the math and I know math, somewhat. But this is so simple. Do you lack the math?

I explain and you insult. Is it comprehension lack on your part.

So, this is either poor thinking or side taking hear loss.

Why not just admit this is an Agenda against Big Oil?

It is the only reason you have any passion about this at all, seems to me.

 

[ginjawarrior]

I was talking purely about the extra day every 57 years that doer suggested...

the precession of the equinoxes has a LOT to do witth the climate, currently, at perahelion, the northern hemisphere is pointed at the sun, giving the north (earth's largest land masses) cool summers (summer solstice nearing aphelion) and warm winters (winter solstice approaching perahelion) on the orbital path.

when the precession advances to the other side, with perahelion approaching the northern hemisphere's summer, we will have cooler winters and hotter summers.

naturally, this effect is reversed in the southern hemisphere, and the tropic wont notice any differences in their general climate.


BUUUUT.....

sunlight falling on mostly ocean gets stored as Heat Energy (ZOMG!! NOOO!!!), and sunlight falling on about 50/50 ocean and land reacts in complex ways.

peek at a globe and you will note, Plate Tectonics Be Racist! putting most of the land mass (outside the tropics) in the Northern Hemisphere.

the southern hemisphere remains MOSTLY (and in this case "mostly" actually means predominantly, a higher proportion of, approaching exclusivity) WATER so while the southern oceans get Hotter summers and Colder winters, making those lands less hospitable (That's Racist!), the southern hemisphere's current position in the precession also results in a gradual warming of the oceans, which in turn reduces the CO2 carrying capacity of the oceans, which in turn causes more greenhouse warming, which in turn causes the release of Moar Co2 from the Benthic Sink.

when the northern hemisphere (the Good hemisphere naturally, Damn you White People!!) has warm winters and cool summers, plants grow on the larger land area, corals grow faster in the overall shallower seas, and glaciations worldwide retreat.
if land area were more Equally Distributed (No Justice, No Peace! End Racist Continental Distribution!) then yes., the precession of the equinoxes would be largely a give and take, with far less dramatic results.

this is the essence of the milankovic cycle and it's effect on glaciations and climate (as i understand it).


DOER! yo, check this shit out!
http://profhorn.meteor.wisc.edu/wxwise/climate/earthorbit.html

Nice that you put the effort typing that out for no reason tho

Here have a map

 

[ginjawarrior]

The link is here. It is calculated. I posted the links were I got the data to do the math and I know math, somewhat. But this is so simple.

I explain and you insult. It is comprehension lack on your part.

So, this is either poor thinking or side taking hear loss.

Why is there no trace of your 57.2 years anywhere apart from your posts?

I'm more than happy to talk agw with you even civilly but I have no time whatsoever for the manipulative carp you tried above (I had more than enough from my ex)

 

[ginjawarrior]

I have repeatedly told Keynes that I do not deny natural variations including precession and milanovich cycles.

That he deems it fit to type an essay because he thought he had a gotcha moment is nothing to do with me and as I have repeatedly told him I don't deny it then he's arguing against himself, for nothing....

 

[ginjawarrior]

ad hominem. dispute the claim not the person.
after all even a stopped clock is right twice a day.


bad sourcing and half assed citations are a Plague Upon This Earth.


leaks suck.


good idea.
but when is is released officially i predict a whole lot of "We had to exaggerate the claims, so people would get The Message!", "The Message is so important, extreme measures are warranted to make sure everybody understands The Message!", and "Gaia is Angry!!RRRaaaaAAAAwRRR!!"

You seem cranky

 

[Dr Kynes]

You seem cranky

nope.

you couldnt rustle my jimmies with a TEAM of guys.

and the arctic sea still isnt even Partly enclosed.

you so silly.

also, as axial precession cycles about once every ~26000 years, and a year is ~365 days, so 26000 / 365 = the precession advances by one "day" every ~71.2 years.

but then im noted for having less than stellar Maths.

it sounds about right to me though, in a Ballpark kinda way.

 

[Dr Kynes]

I was talking purely about the extra day every 57 years that doer suggested...



Nice that you put the effort typing that out for no reason tho

Here have a map

so all these exhortations to "prove" that there is a LONG TERM global warming trend, and we are in fact in the midst of an Interglacial Period, an dthat predicting warmer climate is easy as fuck because it's gonna get warmer, even if everybody stops breathing entirely, was all just you playing dumb?


so you knew all along that we are still in the "gittin warmer" phase of the glacial cycle, and you just PRETENDED to argue otherwise because "U Be Trollin"?

nice revision.

you really are hilariously lame.

 

[Doer]

Why is there no trace of your 57.2 years anywhere apart from your posts?

I'm more than happy to talk agw with you even civilly but I have no time whatsoever for the manipulative carp you tried above (I had more than enough from my ex)

I congratulate you for having found love, even briefly.

I said I calculated it and I listed the simple math. It isn't magic, and it isn't even orbital calculus. It is the reality of the System. It is the pump of the 2ond Law of Thermodynamics. It is why we must add leap year. It is the Climate Change engine.

And it is such a change, a full day in the energy balance, we observe the change within a lifetime. That's the point.

I'm not making a contention. I am stating facts and you seem to be barely reading it.

 

[UncleBuck]

For what it's worth (which may not be much)

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2420783/Global-warming-just-HALF-said-Worlds-climate-scientists-admit-computers-got-effects-greenhouse-gases-wrong.html

View attachment 2825048

As Buck says, "presented without comment".

source: john christy


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Christy

Since 1989 Christy, along with Roy Spencer, has maintained an atmospheric temperature record derived from satellite*microwavesounding unit measurements, commonly called the "UAH" record (see also*satellite temperature record). This was once quitecontroversial: From the beginning of the satellite record in late 1978 into 1998 it showed a net global cooling trend, although ground measurements and instruments carried aloft by balloons showed warming in many areas.*

yes, let's rely on dailymail, who hired a denier working with a creationist to put out a misleading temperature record.

what could possibly go wrong?

 

[Dr Kynes]

source: john christy


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Christy

Since 1989 Christy, along with Roy Spencer, has maintained an atmospheric temperature record derived from satellite*microwavesounding unit measurements, commonly called the "UAH" record (see also*satellite temperature record). This was once quitecontroversial: From the beginning of the satellite record in late 1978 into 1998 it showed a net global cooling trend, although ground measurements and instruments carried aloft by balloons showed warming in many areas.*

yes, let's rely on dailymail, who hired a denier working with a creationist to put out a misleading temperature record.

what could possibly go wrong?

from your own Citation:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Christy
"He is a distinguished professor of atmospheric science, and director of the Earth System Science Center at the University of Alabama in Huntsville. He was appointed Alabama's state climatologist in 2000. For his development of a global temperature data set from satellites he was awarded NASA's Medal for Exceptional Scientific Achievement, and the American Meteorological Society's "Special Award."[SUP][1][/SUP] In 2002, Christy was elected Fellow of the American Meteorological Society.[SUP][3][/SUP] "

and the inevitable related link from the same source:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roy_Spencer_(scientist)

"Spencer received a B.S. in Atmospheric Sciences from the University of Michigan in 1978 and his M.S. and Ph.D. in Meteorology from the University of Wisconsin–Madison in 1980 and 1982.[SUP][1][/SUP] His doctoral thesis was titled, A case study of African wave structure and energetics during Atlantic transit.[SUP][3][/SUP] After receiving his Ph.D. in 1982, Spencer worked for two years as a research scientist in the Space Science and Engineering Center at the University of Wisconsin–Madison.[SUP][1][/SUP] He then joined NASA's Marshall Space Flight Center as a visiting scientist in 1984,[SUP][2][/SUP] where he later became a Senior Scientist for Climate Studies.[SUP][1][/SUP] After leaving NASA in 2001, Spencer has been a Principal Research Scientist at the University of Alabama in Huntsville (UHA).[SUP][1][/SUP] As well as his position at UHA, Spencer is currently the U.S. Science Team leader for the Advanced Microwave Scanning Radiometer (AMSR-E) on NASA's Aqua satellite, a position he has held since 1994.[SUP][1][/SUP]
In 2001, he designed an algorithm to detect tropical cyclones and estimate their maximum sustained wind speed using the Advanced Microwave Sounding Unit (AMSU).[SUP][4][/SUP][SUP][5][/SUP]
Spencer has been a member of several science teams: the Tropical Rainfall Measuring Mission (TRMM) Space Station Accommodations Analysis Study Team, Science Steering Group for TRMM, TOVS Pathfinder Working Group, NASA Headquarters Earth Science and Applications Advisory Subcommittee, and two National Research Council (NRC) study panels.[SUP][1][/SUP]
He is on the board of directors of the George C. Marshall Institute,[SUP][6][/SUP] and on the board of advisors of the Cornwall Alliance for the Stewardship of Creation.[SUP][7][/SUP]
Spencer's research work is funded by NASA, NOAA, DOE and the DOT.[SUP][2][/SUP] "


This reads like two scientists, who disagree with your assertions, not two dangerous lunatics trying to Unmake Creation by researching the Name Of God so they can recite it backwards...



why so Ad Hominem?

ohh wait i just remembered who im talking to.

cuz now i just feel foolish for trying.

 

[Dr Kynes]

sweet! doublepost!

 

[UncleBuck]

This reads like two scientists, who disagree with your assertions, not two dangerous lunatics trying to Unmake Creation by researching the Name Of God so they can recite it backwards...

you left out some parts...

*"I finally became convinced that the theory of creation actually had a much better scientific basis than the theory of evolution, for the creation model was actually better able to explain the physical and biological complexity in the world. [...] Science has startled us with its many discoveries and advances, but it has hit a brick wall in its attempt to rid itself of the need for a creator and designer."[SUP][34]


[/SUP]and since you love funny pictures so much...

"scientific basis"

 

[heckler73]

source: john christy


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Christy

Since 1989 Christy, along with Roy Spencer, has maintained an atmospheric temperature record derived from satellite*microwavesounding unit measurements, commonly called the "UAH" record (see also*satellite temperature record). This was once quitecontroversial: From the beginning of the satellite record in late 1978 into 1998 it showed a net global cooling trend, although ground measurements and instruments carried aloft by balloons showed warming in many areas.*

yes, let's rely on dailymail, who hired a denier working with a creationist to put out a misleading temperature record.

what could possibly go wrong?

When I saw Christy's name, I knew someone's radar would go off.

 

[FreedomWorks]

The release of mass amounts of locked up methane. Methane is far more potent than CO2

Far more potent than CO2? Are you trying to imply that CO2 is toxic? CO2 seems to be an important part of eco-tyranny, as a way to try and convince people its "global warming". I thought plants breathe it in so that they can grow. Then they release Oxygen, so that people can breathe. Sounds like a win-win situation. Plants breathe, animals breathe; and then we all live together in harmony. But the left can't have that, can they? There has always got to be a victim. Democrats make me sick.

 

[Dr Kynes]

Far more potent than CO2? Are you trying to imply that CO2 is toxic? CO2 seems to be an important part of eco-tyranny, as a way to try and convince people its "global warming". I thought plants breathe it in so that they can grow. Then they release Oxygen, so that people can breathe. Sounds like a win-win situation. Plants breathe, animals breathe; and then we all live together in harmony. But the left can't have that, can they? There has always got to be a victim. Democrats make me sick.

no., you are wound too tight.

methane is a much more powerful Greenhouse gas than CO2.

release of large concentrations of methane (as well as copious quantities of CO2) from decaying vegetable matter is why jungles like the Amazon "Rainforest" are no longer described as "The Lungs Of The Earth" by the Eco-Press

this is a result of actual research, which is why you have probably never heard it before.

Easy Version(some inaccuracies):
http://www.theguardian.com/science/2006/jan/12/environment.climatechange

Hard version:
http://web.anl.gov/PCS/acsfuel/preprint archive/Files/16_4_BOSTON_04-72_0070.pdf

Protip: the largest source of Methane is not Man, or "Ruminating Livestock" but swamps, jungles and other "natural" and "protected ecospheres" where vegetable matter is consumed by bacterium.
thats why they call it "Swamp Gas"

 

[FreedomWorks]

Who is disputing methane gas? Are you calling CO2 a pollutant, yes or no?

 

[UncleBuck]

When I saw Christy's name, I knew someone's radar would go off.

i had no idea who he was, i looked him up though to see and the first thing i see is "fellates roy spencer on the weekends as a hobby".

hug a creationist and kiss your credibility goodbye.