36 hours of darkness after veg?
- Thread starter OB Cron Kenobi
- Start date
gohydro
Well-Known Member
Damn, that pump costs more than one of my 600w hoods, lamps and ballasts together! I'm no cheapskate (Lumatek ballasts, Hydrofarm Hoods, Hortilux Eye bulbs, R.O. water and Advanced Nutes) but my 50 dollar, 550gph pump does fine for me. I'm very meticulous about mixing my nutes but I gotta believe that a spray head that reduces the droplet size to.05 micron is prone to incessant clogging regardless of the delivery pressure. That's all I need is some undissolved Bud Blood clogging up the works. And for what? Possible 10% faster growth, or so I can truly say I'm growing Aeroponically?
OB Cron Kenobi
Well-Known Member
As much as I like the idea of aeroponics or hydroponics, i find my self much more drawn to soil... Can you look at me and tell me hydro or aero are inherently better- 2 seeds- same conditions... one soil, one hydro- i dont fully believe their will be a noticable difference replicatable over time...
The 36 hours of darkness however, has been tried by many so far- and all that i have talked to have reported good things, nothing bad thats for sure...
Thats good science....
The 36 hours of darkness however, has been tried by many so far- and all that i have talked to have reported good things, nothing bad thats for sure...
Thats good science....
gohydro
Well-Known Member
Well, I've grown both ways and I always seem to do much better hydroponically. That doesn't mean that *it* is better.........maybe I'm just better with hydro. I do it for a few different reasons.
1. I don't like carrying bags of dirt in to my home on a regular basis. You know....nice residential neighborhood with nosy neighbors. I also don't like scattering the left over dirt from each grow throughout my flowerbeds in a feeble attempt to "dispose of the evidence" while looking like a normal neighbor. It reminds me of the old P.O.W movies where the guys digging the tunnels in the German P.O.W. camps disbursed their excavated dirt by filling their pockets and walking around the yard letting dirt fall out of their pant leg. It's funny...if you look in my outdoor flowerbeds they're full of vermiculite and perilite.
2. I don't like worrying about how much or how little water. It is what it is.
3. I like the ability to measure the uptake of nutes daily and make the necessary corrections. Part of the challenge of hydro/aero growing is finding that optimum point (PPM, PH) where the plant is using EXACTLY what it is given....no more, no less. If I mistakenly over fert I can usually correct the problem within 2 days without flushing.
4. I haven't had any bug problems since going hydro. I suspect in some prior *dirt grows* I may have purchased some soil product that wasn't properly sterilized and got, at the very least, unhatched bug eggs included with my soil.
With respect to which one is inherently better I would say that it MAY be easier to create (or get as close to) optimum conditions in a hydro environment. I don't think the soil vs. hydro discussion compares outcomes in "identical environments". Hydro growers are saying that it's EASIER to create an *optimum* environment. Granted, if you could create the identical conditions using soil, you'd probably get an identical result. We all know that you can't move a hydro plant to a soil medium and expect it to do well. In layman's terms the root structure has not developed in such a way that it has the ability to absorb nutrients properly. I like the idea that my plants don't need to devote as much energy (or root production) to gathering their food.
Lastly, I just wanted to toss out (for consideration) that additional variable of going straight from clone room to flower room with no veg cycle in between. If the 36 hr period actually does reduce stretch I'm not sure I want it. My final harvest would be too small.
OB Cron Kenobi
Well-Known Member
rough ratio... i got sooo lucky- 8 females 3 males!
But i was able to tell sex within 3 days to right away...
But i was able to tell sex within 3 days to right away...
cloudflyer
Well-Known Member
My mist nozzles never really clog. But each week when I change my nutes, I snap off the caps and replace them with the caps from last week (that I had sitting in H2O2 all week. Takes about ten minutes. Since I usually let my water sit for about 5 minutes between adding each stage or PH up/down, I have enough time.
I get 70% more O2 to the roots compared to flood and drain. It takes about 2 1/2 weeks off my veg time. (2000w X 18hours a day = 36 kilowatt hours per day or a savings of 648 kwh. 648 x.22= a savings of $142.56 per cycle)
Ahh but the true added perk is a 10-20% increase in yeild and a little more potent too.
Another big advantage of that pump is, I hook it up to my garden hose and drain my res right through my sprinker. My lawn looks great.
And I have a plastic 55 gallon drum I keep full with RO water to was my car with. No spots
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gohydro
Well-Known Member
You must have a serious RO machine. Prior to my GE Merlin purchase (which claims as much as 700gal/day) I tried about everything including that Mr. Clean carwash gadget. It actually works well (reduced the PPM to about 20) but took FOREVER. I think about 2 hrs to get 15 gallons. I also tried the 200 dollar Home Depot/Lowes models too and was disappointed at their performance so I splurged on the Merlin.
I actually do something similar with respect to reusing old nute mix. Since I'm using those tupperware tubs I've extended the spray manifold through the side of the tub and put a hose connection and cap on it. I also change once a week and when the time comes I just turn off the spray pumps, remove the cap, connect a washing machine hose and use the tub pump to empty the tub in to a large trashcan. Then I use a dewatering pump (the same one I use to transfer the new mix in to the tubs) to send it to the hose bib on the front of my home. As far as the neighbors are concerned I'm just watering my lawn. My pumps do not have the static head to pump it all the way from my basement to the outdoors but i've teed in to the water line feeding the hose bibs and have a connection right above my "waste nute" trashcan. The dewatering pump (70 bucks from Home Depot) has more than enough static head to get it out of the can and in to the copper line feeding the hose bib. Great minds think alike.
If you like PM me sometime and we can discuss Hydro/Aero a little further and compare notes.
gohydro
Well-Known Member
Oh, keep in mind that my system is sort of a cross between a Aero and NFT system too. Besides spraying the roots that hang from the netpots the bottom of the roots are sitting in about 8" of solution too. Considering that I have overkill on airstones ( (2) 12" stones in each tub, which was done more for redundancy) AND the O2 generated from spraying, I think I have plenty of oxygen feeding the root ball. Dual outlet air pumps with 1 outlet feeding each tub. That way if 1 air pump fails I still am getting O2 to both tubs. In retrosepct I really like the system as primitive as it may seem. I once had a spray pump fail on a Friday night and couldn't replace it until Monday morning. The fact that I had an aerated reservoir (in addition to the sprayers) kept everything well until such time that I could replace the pump.
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cloudflyer
Well-Known Member
Remember once the roots are wet, they are not taking in as much O2. Thats why my cycle timer is spray fro 30 sec every 4 min. Mist-drip dry--mist. My big dis advantage is if the pump goes, I am FUCKED in 6 hours.
My RO is actually slow 200GPD w/SI but I have it on 24/7 going into two 55 gallon drums with float valves.
I have talked about it a little but I'll let the cat out out the bag.
I am filming an Aeroponics DVD right now. Thats why I have not posed new pics in a while. The DVD set will cover 3 grows.
Grow #1
Homemade Aeroponics. Sprinkler heads 300 gph pumps. 400w mh/hps. Walmart 45 gallon bins.
Grow#2
High pressure misters, co2, 2 400w/MH 2 600wHPS, the works
Grow #3
Breeding with system from grow 2
It will cover EVERYTHING from conception to harvest. I am even having a NORML director as a guest speaker. I'm pretty excited about the whole thing but production will take a long time. People should see it in their fav magazine in about 9 months. I am sure I will trow around a few promotional copies to people (especially if they provide pics and content hint hint)
gohydro
Well-Known Member
Wow Cloud.....very cool. What kind of content are you looking for?Remember once the roots are wet, they are not taking in as much O2. Thats why my cycle timer is spray fro 30 sec every 4 min. Mist-drip dry--mist. My big dis advantage is if the pump goes, I am FUCKED in 6 hours.
My RO is actually slow 200GPD w/SI but I have it on 24/7 going into two 55 gallon drums with float valves.
I have talked about it a little but I'll let the cat out out the bag.
I am filming an Aeroponics DVD right now. Thats why I have not posed new pics in a while. The DVD set will cover 3 grows.
Grow #1
Homemade Aeroponics. Sprinkler heads 300 gph pumps. 400w mh/hps. Walmart 45 gallon bins.
Grow#2
High pressure misters, co2, 2 400w/MH 2 600wHPS, the works
Grow #3
Breeding with system from grow 2
It will cover EVERYTHING from conception to harvest. I am even having a NORML director as a guest speaker. I'm pretty excited about the whole thing but production will take a long time. People should see it in their fav magazine in about 9 months. I am sure I will trow around a few promotional copies to people (especially if they provide pics and content hint hint)
Your "disadvantage" (fucked if your pump fails) is what steered me away from an expensive pump in the first place, and cost was not the only consideration. I like my set-up to somewhat modular and isolated. I don't want to run the risk of *something* failing or a disease like root rot affecting my whole grow. I'd prefer 3 smaller aero tubs with their own rez's and own components rather than 1 large system where I may have a single point of failure. 3 of those pumps could get quite expensive. However.......We all know this process evolves with time. Just when we think our set-ups are just right, we sit back, puff one, look things over and decide to tear it all out and build it differently. Maybe I ought to quit getting high and examining my gro-op. It's getting too costly.
Kludge
Well-Known Member
This is a great thread, thanks guys. What it proves is that two really intelligent people can disagree and have lots and lots of evidence on both of their sides. When you listen to one you agree and think, "Wow, that sounds right, he must be right." Then you listen to the other guy and you're like, "Oh, well that's a better explanation, HE must be right."
Most valuably of all it shows that even if someone is very knowledgeable about something there is always someone who is equally knowledgeable and will disagree. So, take everything you read with a grain of salt until you have some actual experience yourself. Millions of people voted for Bush and they were so clearly wrong it's painful so just because a lot of people say something is true doesn't make it so. Hell a few billion people actually believe in magical winged fairies that live in the sky... go figure.
Sorry for the tangent.
Most valuably of all it shows that even if someone is very knowledgeable about something there is always someone who is equally knowledgeable and will disagree. So, take everything you read with a grain of salt until you have some actual experience yourself. Millions of people voted for Bush and they were so clearly wrong it's painful so just because a lot of people say something is true doesn't make it so. Hell a few billion people actually believe in magical winged fairies that live in the sky... go figure.
Sorry for the tangent.
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gohydro
Well-Known Member
Thanks Kludge but the whole thing is trial and error....at least for me. I have made my fair share of mistakes for sure.
Don't even get me started on the Bush thing. I can practically see his Wash DC residence from my front door and consequently his foibles and screw-ups make my local news as well as the national news.
Hey Cloud........looks like we have somebody snowed. They think we're "intelligent".
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gohydro
Well-Known Member
Hey Koa.... maybe we ought to start a thread of what NOT to do.
cloudflyer
Well-Known Member
Thats funny I was born in DC and raised in Northern VA (fairfax county)
gohydro
Well-Known Member
No shit! I live in MD. You still "out east"?
cloudflyer
Well-Known Member
No I'm in CA, I worked in Chevy Chase for a bit
OB Cron Kenobi
Well-Known Member
Never even heard of soil and wick, but scroll back- and you will see the before and after of my plants going from veg to flower- it was an explosion with 4 showing sex after 36 hrs of darkness...
And 12/12 is good for yield, many people switch to 10or8/14or16 (light/dark) to increase resin/thc production... but new stuff is saying you can go to 14 hours light last week or two for very high yields... It is kind of yield vs. maturity, I am going to combine- 10or8 lights on for last 2 of 3 weeks, then go to 14 hours on for last week...
For science- is that what this is all about!