Canada Medical Cannabis Growers Coop

[VILEPLUME]

Has anyone heard of this organization before?

I recently met someone that works for them, but I was a little bit skeptical.

They do not have a website, but a facebook page instead

https://www.facebook.com/bigrainmaker


Does this seem like a good path to get a growers licence?

Any input would be greatly appreciated.

 

[AB Bud Soon]

Thought about it, but I don't think HC and CS would be all that happy to see revenue dividends flowing freely to coop investors. I would be surprised if that business model ever gets their LP license.

 

[VILEPLUME]

Thought about it, but I don't think HC and CS would be all that happy to see revenue dividends flowing freely to coop investors. I would be surprised if that business model ever gets their LP license.

Thank you for the reply.

Any advice for someone who doesn't know much about the legal side of becoming a grower?

 

[AB Bud Soon]

Thank you for the reply.

Any advice for someone who doesn't know much about the legal side of becoming a grower?

Yup. In no particular order:

1) Hire a lawyer. They will understand the intricate details of the application process better than an average Joe would.
2) Plan on HUGE start-up costs. You will need some deep pockets for start-up capital.
3) Depending where you live, finding a facility to use is going to be a HUGE challenge.
4) Do you plan to produce and sell to patients? Or grow and sell wholesale to other LPs that will resell under their business plan.
5) Consult with an engineer. Their are many little things that an engineer will have to design for your HVAC and odour control.
6) Get patients on your list. This is the biggest wildcard factor. No patients = no revenue!
7) Order a number of kilos of mmj from the netherlands (once u have a license). This will be needed to sell to your patients until your crops are harvested, cured, tested (add a week for that to your timeline), and packaged. You can almost estimate 5 to 6 months from seed to ship of your first crop.
Think of all the other things I didn't mention

I hope that helps you to get started. Certain methods of growing/harvesting will be near impossible to earn a profit due to the requirements of having every "Batch/Lot" of mmj harvested. For example, the "Sea of green" method of growing (hundreds of little plants each producing 10g of dry flower) is near impossible to pass by Health Canada (due to no real batch start-stop delineators. and that for each batch, you will need to submit 250g to a lab for testing....and pay the lab $1000 to $2000 for EACH batch you send for testing.

There are a lot of hurdles to get over, and they can be overcome, but do you have what it takes just to get to the licensing stage?

Cheers

 

[VILEPLUME]

Yup. In no particular order:

1) Hire a lawyer. They will understand the intricate details of the application process better than an average Joe would.
2) Plan on HUGE start-up costs. You will need some deep pockets for start-up capital.
3) Depending where you live, finding a facility to use is going to be a HUGE challenge.
4) Do you plan to produce and sell to patients? Or grow and sell wholesale to other LPs that will resell under their business plan.
5) Consult with an engineer. Their are many little things that an engineer will have to design for your HVAC and odour control.
6) Get patients on your list. This is the biggest wildcard factor. No patients = no revenue!
7) Order a number of kilos of mmj from the netherlands (once u have a license). This will be needed to sell to your patients until your crops are harvested, cured, tested (add a week for that to your timeline), and packaged. You can almost estimate 5 to 6 months from seed to ship of your first crop.
Think of all the other things I didn't mention

I hope that helps you to get started. Certain methods of growing/harvesting will be near impossible to earn a profit due to the requirements of having every "Batch/Lot" of mmj harvested. For example, the "Sea of green" method of growing (hundreds of little plants each producing 10g of dry flower) is near impossible to pass by Health Canada (due to no real batch start-stop delineators. and that for each batch, you will need to submit 250g to a lab for testing....and pay the lab $1000 to $2000 for EACH batch you send for testing.

There are a lot of hurdles to get over, and they can be overcome, but do you have what it takes just to get to the licensing stage?

Cheers

Extremely helpful, thank you.

I do not give out Rep lightly, but I wish I could give you more!

There are a couple more questions I would like to ask, and if you wish to private message the answers instead I will understand.

1) I have researched lawyers in Ontario, but as someone starting out I am unsure who to look at. Any specific recommendations would be helpful.
2) Regarding start-up costs, approximately how much should I be prepared to invest? Specifically someone with no facility, but with a sizable income to get started.
3) I began searching but specifically what type of facility should I be looking for? A link or an example of one online would be very helpful.
4 & 6) I have to be honest, where does someone begin to look for patients? And how would someone approach a patient without looking "green"(is that a pun?)

Thank you for explaining the hurdles and it will take some overcoming, but something that I am prepared to invest a lot of time and money into.

Cheers.

 

[AB Bud Soon]

Extremely helpful, thank you.

I do not give out Rep lightly, but I wish I could give you more!

There are a couple more questions I would like to ask, and if you wish to private message the answers instead I will understand.

1) I have researched lawyers in Ontario, but as someone starting out I am unsure who to look at. Any specific recommendations would be helpful. Find one that is familiar with Health Canada regulations.
2) Regarding start-up costs, approximately how much should I be prepared to invest? Specifically someone with no facility, but with a sizable income to get started. My gardens come in at around $20,000 each as a start-up...that works out to just over $41/Ftsq. Figure out how much space you want to have, then talk to a Hydroponic supplier to get a breakdown of everything you need for that space.
3) I began searching but specifically what type of facility should I be looking for? A link or an example of one online would be very helpfull. U need a warehouse type of design with a lot of square footage.
4 & 6) I have to be honest, where does someone begin to look for patients? And how would someone approach a patient without looking "green"(is that a pun?Not sure. HC puts ur company on their website and u wait for people to join your LP. If u want to only wholesale, you will need to get in touch with other LPs and work out deals with them...or let them come to u. Rules disallow for "advertising"...

Thank you for explaining the hurdles and it will take some overcoming, but something that I am prepared to invest a lot of time and money into.

Cheers.

I replied in red font to ur questions. I hope that helps. It is best to read the MMPR regs on the HC website. It will take u a week, but it is a necessary evil to understand EVERY line in it. There is a lot of legwork and some basic math to do, but it is possible for an average Joe to make it work.

Cheers

 

[Kootenaygirl]

It is possible for a small scale facility to succeed. If you consider the wine industry, marihuana will be similar with many smaller growers to provide the variety that our very finicky patients will want. Just one opinion.

 

[AB Bud Soon]

ummm...I'm not thinking so. Depends on what you mean as "small scale." Are you talking about growing 100 plants? or 1000? "Small scale" is a rather subjective quantity. My contracted lab that I will use, needs 30-50g for each sample that they test + they charge $1000 (give or take $100) for each batch/lot that they will need to test. So you will need to produce enough to offset the loss of sellable product, and the cost of testing (unless you have your own in-house lab at almost $1million set-up...which means you are not growing small scale)

The idea of "boutique weed" growing won't work unless you plan to supply only a few patients who will all agree that they want "Northern lights" or "lambs breath" as their Rx of choice. I think patients will gravitate towards the LPs that offer variety...varying %s of thc/cbd...to find what suits them best for their needs. Keep in mind that a lot of patients won't even know what "Norther Lights" is...or it's effects on their body...unless they have been connoisseurs of street weed and know the street names of the weed. If you look at PPS website (cannimed) you will see that they do not use street names. Could you image selling "White widow" to a support person that has a husband dying of cancer?

So..if you want to PM me your ideas of "small scale", I can run it through my worksheet and tell you the probability of turning a profit. ($/g; # of plants; estimated average yield/plant)

Don't be discouraged by the cost of starting "large" (another subjective term) scale. The revenue potential is utterly amazing when you look at ALL the numbers.

Cheers

 

[Kootenaygirl]

$250,000 if your leasing, more if your buying is what we consider small scale. 3000 to 10,000 sqft. Your stuck in the MMAR's system of distribution, the MMPR will allow for purchasing from multiple LP's. Add the wholesale end and the new system will not pair patients with LP's. Patients will shop around, buying multiple strains from multiple LP's. It may take awhile for patients and doctors to figure it out but that is where this is going. Not illegal for your doc to scribe you 15 g/day with 3 separate prescriptions totalling the 15 grams. 3scribes x 5 g/day. Each scribe can be used at a different LP.
Your the one talking how good the numbers are. Testing 150 grams from a 10 pound batch is easily affordable.
Have you applied for a license yet AB Bud soon?

 

[AB Bud Soon]

@ kootenaygirl...I have not put forward a lot of time into the MMAR paperwork. It's not the big part of my focus right now. But as for an doctor to create multiple Rxs for a single patient is fraud. You can't ask a Dr to make 3 different Rxs for Oxy, Viagra, or penecillin....so why would a Dr be allowed to give a person 3 Rxs for mmj? I guess this is something that I will have to talk to a few people in the medical field to get a sound answer. As a (hopefully) future LP, I don't care if a patient wants to buy 30g/month or 1000g/month from me, as long as the "T's" are crossed and the "I's" dotted by a physician and that fulfilling multiple Rxs/patient doesn't compromise my business with HC/CS.
As for our application, we have almost everything in place with the exception of our QC position. That's a tough role to fill, and HC is pretty dodgy with answering questions regarding what skills/experiences the QC needs to have. (we had a guy in line for it, but his morals conflicted with the nature of our product). My goal is to get notification letters out later this month, then the app sent in to HC in the first week of December.

10,000 sqft I think will end up being the average size for most LP applications. That is a pretty good size building. Not sure how people are designing their grow areas. If they plan to have one MASSIVE crop? Or break it into smaller gardens. Pro's and con's to both. My plan is to have 18,000 sqft divided into 34 gardens of nearly 500 sqft each. yes, that means 34 ventilation systems, light control systems, hydro, security hardware etc etc.... but will make batch control and pest control more manageable, plus allow for multiple strains to always be in production at the same time. If a strain is a non-seller, then it gets axed. If a strain becomes favourable to my patients, then it will be grown in more gardens.

I guess tonight I better read-up on the MMAR guidelines Thanks for your input Koot

Cheers

 

[leaffan]

34 gardens mean 34 batch tests @ 1k a pop, something to keep in mind.

 

[AB Bud Soon]

34 gardens mean 34 batch tests @ 1k a pop, something to keep in mind.

Way ahead of you
Something else to remember is that u lose 30-50 grams to submit for testing for each batch. Plus you have to keep a "testable" size portion for one year after the expected expiration date. So there is another 30-50 grams of unsellable product per batch. Now my question would be, exactly how much is considered a testable quantity that HC mandates you keep in storage? My planned contracted lab says they only need the, aforementioned, 30-50 grams. But the World Health Organization Pharmacopeia says 250 grams is the minimum test sample size. Maybe HC will need to quantify that number for us.

 

[leaffan]

AB, I would focus on the MMPR not the MMAR. Why who vs na or european?

 

[Kootenaygirl]

Each lab has different sample sizes, ranging wildly. If you are testing for pesticides double it. The last thing we want is HC telling the labs how to do their jobs, smart labs will reduce that sample size to as small as possible or return unused portions. That may be the biggest reason when choosing a lab, as to which pharmacopoeia they use and how they treat their customers samples. Man that seems like a lot of gardens in 18000sqft.

 

[Magenta Thumb]

...and are you sure the WHO amount is not for release testing of hemp crops? From what I've read, the sampling size seems bigger for that than for the law enforcement tests but I could just be forgetting how much the WHO mandates for that.

 

[AB Bud Soon]

Man that seems like a lot of gardens in 18000sqft.

Depends how big each garden is . I'm off to look at the building tomorrow afternoon. Garden/barn is 18,000, the rest of the building as another 2200. Plus it has a nice outbuilding that the old farm hand used to live in (will make a nice staff room) only steps away from the main building. Getting the water report from the realtor tomorrow as well. The water supply is well water, so I may be investing in a good quality RO system, or contracting potable water delivery.

Cheers

 

[leaffan]

Better check you have enough hydro too

 

[Kootenaygirl]

In BC, cell phone reception can be an issue. Always thought I could point an online camera at all my meters and check them on my phone. It was a bigger priority for us the further we got from home. Just a thought, though it was just one on a long list after high voltage zoning also known as being zoned AC/DC lol, water, neighbors(one was close to a church), and gas for CO2. Another thing we thought about while onsite was disposal.

 

[AB Bud Soon]

Better check you have enough hydro too

Listing states it's good for 50 gallon/minute. Will make filling 50 gallon barrels a breeze

 

[AB Bud Soon]

In BC, cell phone reception can be an issue. Always thought I could point an online camera at all my meters and check them on my phone. It was a bigger priority for us the further we got from home. Just a thought, though it was just one on a long list after high voltage zoning also known as being zoned AC/DC lol, water, neighbors(one was close to a church), and gas for CO2. Another thing we thought about while onsite was disposal.

Out here in the bald-ass prairies, few areas are cell-free Well, at least when there is a community and major HWY near by. Our plan is to integrate some form of monitoring system that will alert us if there is any type of failure in a garden...temp/H2O/CO2. My concern is if there will be terrestrial internet signal out there that is high-speed. Same as you, I have plans to be able to remotely check-up on my gardens via the video system.

As for the water, my growers have never dealt with well water, only treated city water. So they have some concerns and have been looking into what will be needed (if anything) or if the water will be OK as is. Anyone have any reference experience on water quality issues, and how you dealt with it?

Cheers