Hello everyone, I had a thread started with a previous grow showing how my seedlings were about to die. I ordered 15 more seeds in the mail and germinated 10 of them. 9/10 germinated, I planted all 9, 8 of which sprouted. No watering until day 4 (coco coir) growing in a dixie cup under 6 6000k CFL 2" away 24-0. They all bent over and died, the stem became so flimsy it was thinner than floss. The roots seemed to be good on all the plants but the stems were floss, not kidding. So this has been my problem since my first of the three grows (on my fourth) and by grow I mean I have yet to see a second set of damn leaves!! So, PH of the drain off water is about 6.5-7.0. I watered the organic coco coir medium until I had a 20 percent drain off. I have stones in the bottom of the cups for extra drainage as previous pictures people stated I had overwatered. Anyways, yes, I run about 6.5-7.0ph, temp 73-83, humidity 40-60, lights 6 6000k cfl 2" away. When I water I let it run off 20 percent (not sure if I should for a seedling?). I haven't even got to using nutes yet so no point of going there. If anyone has some comments, questions, inquiries, or concerns please don't hesitate.. I can take pics of my setup, its just a large plastic toat lined with reflective car window shit, 5" fan, lights suspended via string connected to a baking tray sheet thing for extra light reflection. This is kind of a blabber but I think I got the point out. If I am doing something wrong with the numbers you see please let me know. And if there is any experienced, or even amateur people using coco please let me know how you water. This is all aimed towards seedlings.. I just wanna harvest! Thanks guys and gals.
I need advice! 14 plants dead
- Thread starter mitch90
- Start date
JohnDee
Well-Known Member
Mitch90,
Sorry your seedlings died. Sounds like a fungal stem rot, but not sure. I'm just trying to get up to date...been away from growing for a few years. But I know people used to have all sorts of issues starting seedlings in coco. It was generally considered to be a problem of too much Na in the coco. I don't know if that's a problem now. Coco is made in coastal areas and can absorb salt from sea air...which then must be flushed out.
What brand of coco and was it labeled as being pre-flushed or sodium free? Coco is temperamental and requires knowledge of it's peculiarities. Cation exchange and all that chemistry stuff. Just a thought from an old timer.
JD
Sorry your seedlings died. Sounds like a fungal stem rot, but not sure. I'm just trying to get up to date...been away from growing for a few years. But I know people used to have all sorts of issues starting seedlings in coco. It was generally considered to be a problem of too much Na in the coco. I don't know if that's a problem now. Coco is made in coastal areas and can absorb salt from sea air...which then must be flushed out.
What brand of coco and was it labeled as being pre-flushed or sodium free? Coco is temperamental and requires knowledge of it's peculiarities. Cation exchange and all that chemistry stuff. Just a thought from an old timer.
JD
thecoolman
New Member
Start them in vermiculite perlite mix or peat based seed starter Coco sucks for seedlings!
kushdaddy1980
Well-Known Member
i agree, i never use a medium like that to germinate seeds, i soak them in water for a night then the shells crack, i put them in a wet paper towel inside a ziploc bag until i see a taproot. usually only takes a few days.most of the time after the taproot starts i put them in peat pellets. they work great to get the rootball going inside it. its hard to transplant into hydro after using peat though, i had to pick off all the peat and wash it off till the roots were clean of it, but that can be rough on small seedlings. also i use rockwool for seedlings and you might be able to transplant the rockwool or peat pellets into the coco without too much trouble. ive never used coco coir though so im not sure. your ph is a little high though i would keep it slightly acidic at about 5.8 when i use rockwool i start my solution at about 5.5 because the limestone counteracts the ph and brings it up as the nutes flow through the rockwool. the cubes eventually stabilize after feeding for a while.the 6 cfls might be generating a little heat if the ventilation isn't adequate. in my opinion 4 days is too long to wait to water them. at 83 degrees they are probably drying out,unless the coco stays moist for that long. i would just spray the top of the coco with a spray bottle once a day. you're watering them with straight water? i use a mild veg solution of about 300 ppm on seedlings with b-cuzz root stimulator because even though they dont need much to sprout they need to have a little bit of nutrients to work with which the coco doesn't have. i would give them a little rest during the night as well and use a 18 on 6 off cycle instead of 24. ive been growing for over 20 years now, and still learning. let me know if any of this helps.
ProdigalSun
Well-Known Member
pics....always pics
hydrogreen65
Well-Known Member
Sounds like they stayed too wet and dampened off.
PetFlora
Well-Known Member
Seedlings require gentle care
1. as mentioned, perlite/vermiculite with holes in the bottom or draining
2. water seedlings with an eye dropper until 2-3rd node
3. move the fucking POS cfl light higher, and replace cfls with led globes- HD sells Cree 9.5w for ~ $13. They are dangerous, and unnecessary. LEDs are way better
4. do not aim fan directly at plants- you barely want them to jostle. Aim fan against side wall so breeze is reflected. May need to put on a timer as leafs can dry out from too much wind
1. as mentioned, perlite/vermiculite with holes in the bottom or draining
2. water seedlings with an eye dropper until 2-3rd node
3. move the fucking POS cfl light higher, and replace cfls with led globes- HD sells Cree 9.5w for ~ $13. They are dangerous, and unnecessary. LEDs are way better
4. do not aim fan directly at plants- you barely want them to jostle. Aim fan against side wall so breeze is reflected. May need to put on a timer as leafs can dry out from too much wind
JohnDee
Well-Known Member
Mitch90,
Thought a bit about your problem. Some good ideas have been presented. If you're hell bent on coco (which is essentially hydro media), you could start seeds in little rockwool blocks (another hydro media). Once taproot reaches the bottom, I would transplant up to a solo cup full of more rockwool. Grow it till it had maybe 4 or 5 nodes and them you should be able to go into coco.
Be sure coco is pre-flushed and if not...do it yourself. And pre-treat rockwool with whatever folks are using these days...unless you get the rockwool starter pucks which are already pre-treated. (new item to me)
I personally do not like to wash media off roots and change from soil or peat to hydro. Too much stress and damage.
Peace,
JD
Thought a bit about your problem. Some good ideas have been presented. If you're hell bent on coco (which is essentially hydro media), you could start seeds in little rockwool blocks (another hydro media). Once taproot reaches the bottom, I would transplant up to a solo cup full of more rockwool. Grow it till it had maybe 4 or 5 nodes and them you should be able to go into coco.
Be sure coco is pre-flushed and if not...do it yourself. And pre-treat rockwool with whatever folks are using these days...unless you get the rockwool starter pucks which are already pre-treated. (new item to me)
I personally do not like to wash media off roots and change from soil or peat to hydro. Too much stress and damage.
Peace,
JD
JohnDee
Well-Known Member
I did ebb and flow sog for two years and all my clones and seed starts were in rockwool cubes. Worked great for me. After soaking, I would give them a brisk wrist flip which expels a good portion of the water.
But in growing, we all have successes, failures and personal preferences.
Petflora...what seed germination and early seedling media do you recommend for a coco grow? Coco is obviously killing the OPs seedlings.
Cheers,
JD
How much water should I be watering the seedlings for the first few weeks? DROPS?? LOL if thats the case I have been way overwatring. If that is the case then all this is redundant because my watering would be the factor here. Anyways, I have just germinated 10 seeds in a paper towel 1.5 days ago, I am going to plant them today, in an already flushed medium of coco. My question is where do I get the stuff that lowers my ph ? Walmart? And whats the brand, or whats the product name…
PetFlora
Well-Known Member
OK, let's think about the physical nature of the seedling
Similar to babies, they need special care in the beginning. Thankfully, no diaper changes
Seedlings have tiny leafs and tiny/small volume of roots
If you use to much light for the amount of leaf you can dry out/burn them: you can also dry out/burn the tiny roots near the surface- Either or both will kill the seedling
By using more than a few drops you literally drown the roots (especially with RW, which holds a lot of water), but you need to feed several times a day- but not within 2 hours of lights out. FYI I run light 24/0 for 5-7 days
Lowes/HD sells a inexpensive seed starter kit- think plastic egg container, with holes in each cup. Here I would use a mix of perlite/vermiculite ~ 60:40. It comes with a dome which keeps humidity high
hth
Similar to babies, they need special care in the beginning. Thankfully, no diaper changes
Seedlings have tiny leafs and tiny/small volume of roots
If you use to much light for the amount of leaf you can dry out/burn them: you can also dry out/burn the tiny roots near the surface- Either or both will kill the seedling
By using more than a few drops you literally drown the roots (especially with RW, which holds a lot of water), but you need to feed several times a day- but not within 2 hours of lights out. FYI I run light 24/0 for 5-7 days
Lowes/HD sells a inexpensive seed starter kit- think plastic egg container, with holes in each cup. Here I would use a mix of perlite/vermiculite ~ 60:40. It comes with a dome which keeps humidity high
hth
billy4479
Moderator
Close coco is not a steam sterilized product . Like sunshine or pro mix . I'f coco must be used it should be wetted than baked in a oven untell it reaches a 160 for at least a half hour . but I think you would be better off starting in Rockwool cubes than transplanting into coco .
MasterpieceNutes
Well-Known Member
Some false information in some posts, others got it right, I'll just add my 2c. 1. Without a good autofeeder, coco will do EXACTLY what it did to your seeds. Coco holds a LOT of water, then it starts to dry, and dry, and dry- and it's not a good environment for seedlings- they should be searching out moisture, and they won't in that environment. So, as soon as they grow a little, they are already behind the game, usually meaning they will lose hydrostatic pressure in the main stem and fall over.. It will look like it gets a but 'mushy' at the the bend. 50/50 coco perlite is far more forgiving, but still not ideal for dropping a seed into. I like rockwool or rootpots because you can see when the roots pop out, and they transplant right into 50/50. Much easier dealing with a lot of small starter cubes than big pots too. Also, CFL is excellent for seedlings and You do NOT sterilize coco. -You rinse, until ph runoff of water is appropriate..
