Taxation without representation.....seems so.

burgertime2010

burgertime2010

Well-Known Member
Wilksey said:
Voting rights NEED to be restricted in a REPUBLIC, which is exactly what we are, NOT a democracy.

Why?

For the same reasons kids don't have a say, some people don't know any fucking better, and can't think beyond their next meal.

If you don't pay into a system, and simply LEECH off the system, than why in the fuck should your dumb ass have a say in where ANY tax dollars go? You shouldn't.

If you can't even speak the fucking language, let alone read it, why the fuck should you have any say about written law?

Voting today is nothing more than a contest between which side can get the most morons to vote them into office, and that's a fucking STUPID way to run a nation.

But what the fuck do I know, right?
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So, by taking away a voters participation in a republic by incarceration, he/she also is denied participation once released. Here taxes are taken from an American who is not represented.
 
see4

see4

Well-Known Member
Rob Roy said:
Proper tension on your line when you are trolling can be adjusted by tightening up the drag on your zebco. You're still a roach.
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[video=youtube;5zey8567bcg]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5zey8567bcg[/video]
 
S

stak

Well-Known Member
beenthere said:
Felons knew this before they committed a crime, they make their bed so they can sleep in it, as far as I'm concerned.

Do you think law abiding citizens that are well off financially fall into the category of taxation without representation?
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So you're okay with a non-violent, never been arrested before, cannabis grower losing his voting rights because he was growing some plants for himself?
 
W

Wilksey

Well-Known Member
burgertime2010 said:
So, by taking away a voters participation in a republic by incarceration, he/she also is denied participation once released. Here taxes are taken from an American who is not represented.
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I have no problem with murderers, rapists, robbers, and even some thieves, losing their voting privileges, as their actions have certainly proven they lack good judgement. I wouldn't be opposed to reinstatement upon completion of sentence and parole though...
 
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beenthere

New Member
stak said:
So you're okay with a non-violent, never been arrested before, cannabis grower losing his voting rights because he was growing some plants for himself?
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There are a lot of laws I don't agree with, laws against growing cannabis is just one of them.
If you are committing a crime that could land you in prison, you better think twice about the consequences, but I also believe that once you've paid your debt to society, all your rights should restored.

Besides, people getting caught growing for personal use don't go to prison, jail yes in some states but that's a misdemeanor, and you don't lose your voting rights for a misdemeanor as far as I know.
 
S

schuylaar

Well-Known Member
burgertime2010 said:
Lately, the idea of Americans losing their voting priveledge while in a correctional facility or on parole seems to be fair enough for little outrage to surface. Despite the consequences prescribed at trial, loss of citezinship and having no input, no place to voice his part of this, are we acting ethically? Is this taxation without representation? I am at a place with this where the amount of unfit voters is not contested by American Democracy but never does this type of silencing get brought up. When did the biggest cornerstone of this country become part of a penalty? This system exists with taxation and without representation. I don't like it.
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neither do i..it's already bad enough have to carry "felon" for the rest of your life..especially for non-violent felons.
 
Rob Roy

Rob Roy

Well-Known Member
burgertime2010 said:
So, by taking away a voters participation in a republic by incarceration, he/she also is denied participation once released. Here taxes are taken from an American who is not represented.
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The term "representative" is used to make you feel good. What if the person that alleges to "represent" your geographical district doesn't steal in the way you would have them steal...are they still representing you? When did you give this person your personal power of attorney?
 
burgertime2010

burgertime2010

Well-Known Member
Rob Roy said:
The term "representative" is used to make you feel good. What if the person that alleges to "represent" your geographical district doesn't steal in the way you would have them steal...are they still representing you? When did you give this person your personal power of attorney?
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Your qualms are noted.....again, but we live in place that has rules and protocol for most aspects of politics. As it is, the issue is not the system at large and how you feel I should feel about it.
 
Rob Roy

Rob Roy

Well-Known Member
burgertime2010 said:
Your qualms are noted.....again, but we live in place that has rules and protocol for most aspects of politics. As it is, the issue is not the system at large and how you feel I should feel about it.
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Indeed the first rule is you can made to do things by strangers that call themselves your leaders and want to control your life and steal your money. Those are the first rules, I suppose the second one would be your children will be placed in forever debt and your "adult children" are useful cannon fodder and if they survive the military they can get a "good job" putting people in jail for a plant.

The issue isn't the system at large you say? What evidence do you have to support that or refute my assertions?

Rules and protocols made by others that you never consent to and will face financial punishment, torture or death for disobeying are not a good basis for a "system" are they?

My feelings don't prove or disprove what goes on, the facts do. They support my arguments.
 
burgertime2010

burgertime2010

Well-Known Member
Rob Roy said:
Indeed the first rule is you can made to do things by strangers that call themselves your leaders and want to control your life and steal your money. Those are the first rules, I suppose the second one one would be your children will be placed in forever debt and your "adult children" are useful cannon fodder and if they survive the military they can get a "good job" putting people in jail for a plant.

The issue isn't the system at large you say? What evidence do you have to support that or refute my assertions?

Rules and protocols made by others that you never consent to and will face financial punishment, torture or death for disobeying are not a good basis for a "system" are they?

My feelings don't prove or disprove what goes on, the facts do. They support my arguments.
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The issue is about voting rights for prisoners and parolees specifically in this thread. The argument you are making covers more than is relevant to the idea this thread was to address.
 
Rob Roy

Rob Roy

Well-Known Member
burgertime2010 said:
The issue is about voting rights for prisoners and parolees specifically in this thread. The argument you are making covers more than is relevant to the idea this thread was to address.
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My point is about prisoners. There are many kinds of prisoners that are not incarcerated directly that have suffered a denial of rights.

As far as my argument covering more than the thread purpose, that's what happens when the idea is put in the proper perspective and the root causes are examined. Flailing in the branches about "voting" and "representatives" will accomplish nothing but maybe some rearranging of the furniture in a house built on a shitty foundation.

Understanding what a prisoner is and who they are might not be the intended topic of the thread, I knowledge, but it is part of the conversation if the conversation seeks solutions.

Of course the system is flawed, hugely. It is self evident.
 
burgertime2010

burgertime2010

Well-Known Member
Rob Roy said:
My point is about prisoners. There are many kinds of prisoners that are not incarcerated directly that have suffered a denial of rights.

As far as my argument covering more than the thread purpose, that's what happens when the idea is put in the proper perspective and the root causes are examined. Flailing in the branches about "voting" and "representatives" will accomplish nothing but maybe some rearranging of the furniture in a house built on a shitty foundation.

Understanding what a prisoner is and who they are might not be the intended topic of the thread, I knowledge, but it is part of the conversation if the conversation seeks solutions.

Of course the system is flawed, hugely. It is self evident.
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I am interested in peoples thoughts mainly and not negating your assertions. The institutions exist, rights are taken, is this relationship extraordinarily unconstitutional or unfair? A solution takes a specific focused dialogue as well, right?
 
nevyn

nevyn

Member
What an awesome thread, strange how I live so far away, different country, different government, but it's the same old democrazy and we have the same issues. When I first started reading the thread I thought, do crime go to jail, no voting for you. Then I read some of the stuff on here and now I don't know what to think, thanks guys for screwing up my jaded views of the world. lol, Oh and giving me headache!
 
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beenthere

New Member
burgertime2010 said:
Lately, the idea of Americans losing their voting priveledge while in a correctional facility or on parole seems to be fair enough for little outrage to surface. Despite the consequences prescribed at trial, loss of citezinship and having no input, no place to voice his part of this, are we acting ethically? Is this taxation without representation? .
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Hey, wait a minute, do felons even pay taxes while incarcerated?
 
burgertime2010

burgertime2010

Well-Known Member
beenthere said:
Hey, wait a minute, do felons even pay taxes while incarcerated?
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They are paid for working while in jail.....very little, but I am not sure. Also there are purchasable items that sales tax is applied to. Parolees pay tax and cannot vote however. That is a good question. Should they pay tax on income and goods in the joint?
 
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