12-1 lighting schedule, has anyone actually tried this?

legallyflying

legallyflying

Well-Known Member
skunkushybrid01 said:
great post leagallyflying, very informative.

when i say plants are reactionary i mean it in a much more in depth way. This is why i'm suspiscious of this hour break in the middle of the dark period from a 12/12 cycle. the reports fromt he growers using this method are saying that flower is induced much easier, the article at treating yourself magazine claims that flower finishes one to two weeks earlier.

if you have ever gone straight to 12/12 from seed then you would find that they don't flower right away. they can take up to 4 weeks and even longer to actually start flowering anyway. i'm going to test this on some clones as soon as i get chance and see if it really does stop flowering.
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yo skunk, you should google circadian rythmm in C3 plants. there are allot of journal articles on the subject and they are actually quite interesting. Not the easiest thing to read at times, but some of the graphs and charts are very very informative. They are also pretty fascinating. Why wouldn't plants just photosynthesize in the presence of more light? Why does it take almost a week for a plant to adjust to new light cycles? What drives the limits of how long a plant can photosythesize for? The answer...we still don't know.
 
azman

azman

Active Member
to start with this was has ayny one tried this?
then it turned into no it doesnt work and is impossible (even tho i havent tried it)
to hmm it may work but why does it work lol,
for me it works lilbsdad, im glad it does for you too, im also glad to the other folks that have been giving input, that it works for them too.
 
skunkushybrid01

skunkushybrid01

Well-Known Member
legallyflying said:
yo skunk, you should google circadian rythmm in C3 plants. there are allot of journal articles on the subject and they are actually quite interesting. Not the easiest thing to read at times, but some of the graphs and charts are very very informative. They are also pretty fascinating. Why wouldn't plants just photosynthesize in the presence of more light? Why does it take almost a week for a plant to adjust to new light cycles? What drives the limits of how long a plant can photosythesize for? The answer...we still don't know.
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yeah i have looked into it before but not in much depth... at one time i didn't really believe it existed despite what the journals all say. now i'm slowly coming around to the idea so i think looking into it again is definitely called for.
 
LILBSDAD

LILBSDAD

Well-Known Member
legallyflying said:
^ yeah, jesus lilbsdad, go change your fucking diaper. I'm sorry that you seem so utterly vested in people accepting this method that you discovered. The difference between your "reading" and my "reading" is that my reading in regards to light utilization, photosynthetic rates, and circadian rhythms was done from peer reviewed journal articles. your light schedule reading came from grower websites and forums.

What I often find to be the case is that unless I know a particular forum poster, a slightly higher level of scrutiny is needed in order to determine ..is this actually the case or is this guy full of shit. On the flip side, journal articles are peer reviewed and they have measurements and detailed information on how the experiments were carried out and what the results were.

The reason for my post was to further the knowledge of plant physiology and try to help people understand the processes at work. And to a larger extent.. perhaps spur someone to do the proper research and show the botanical principles that underlie the success of this technique. Basically, if this works so well then WHY does this work. Simply pasting links to articles that say "try this it works great" does not accomplish that. Jesus, in the MJ growing realm, I could post links to people saying "this is the best way to do this" when it actually isn't until my fingers turn into bloody stumps.

When someone disagrees with you..or better yet, when you perceive that they do..there is no need to jump all over there shit. I am guilty of this as well, just part of my nature (try actually writing a peer reviewed article sometime), but if you go back and read my post, I said that sure the schedule will work..its just not optimal, or at least I fail to see WHY someone would claim it is optimal. This is with the understanding that the goal is to grow the biggest most productive plants in the shortest amount of time, NOT reduce temps or costs. I can buy shit that does that.
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Show me where I claimed this was optimal? I never made a claim that your plants would be 33% bigger using this, nor did I claim this is the best way to grow. The only thing I am doing is trying this out, not sure why you don't understand this. And of course you can buy stuff to compensate for this, but why buy it if you don't need it? Not everyone has 7G to invest in an overpriced grow room. And do the math on if everyone was saving 5 hrs PER light during veg, mulitiplied by the millions of people that are growing. Thats millions of dollars of savings and a lot of energy that this world could use for other things. It doesn't take scientific proof to figure that out.
 
LILBSDAD

LILBSDAD

Well-Known Member
legallyflying said:
Why wouldn't plants just photosynthesize in the presence of more light? Why does it take almost a week for a plant to adjust to new light cycles? What drives the limits of how long a plant can photosythesize for? The answer...we still don't know.
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All that shit you talked and now you post this saying we still don't know the answer to everything.... lmao. I thought you had all the answers?
 
legallyflying

legallyflying

Well-Known Member
LILBSDAD said:
All that shit you talked and now you post this saying we still don't know the answer to everything.... lmao. I thought you had all the answers?
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I'm glad to see that you latched on to this one sentance instead of reading the post and actually learning something. This may come as a shock but no, science has not yet figured out every facet of the natural world. They understand the effects of circadian rhythms in allot of things but there are still allot of unknowns in terms of the chemistry behind them. Its not as if there is a physical part of the pant called the internal clock.

SOrry to hear you don't have 7k to invest in a grow room, I have roughly 5 in mine. Perhaps you should spend more time learning how to increase your yields so you can make some cash to build a pimpin room? Or perhaps, just perhaps, you might open yourself up to listen to others that maybe, just maybe, know a thing or two about plants and MJ cultivation.

I myself have zero interest in saving money on power at the expense of yield. Nor do I worry about temperatures because I realize the importance of temps and that is why I have a $1,500 spit AC unit. Am I going to apologize for being successful enough to buy whatever gear I want? absolutely not. Am I going to continue trying to contribute to this thread in the face of your immaturity? Also absolutely not.
 
LILBSDAD

LILBSDAD

Well-Known Member
legallyflying said:
I'm glad to see that you latched on to this one sentance instead of reading the post and actually learning something. This may come as a shock but no, science has not yet figured out every facet of the natural world. They understand the effects of circadian rhythms in allot of things but there are still allot of unknowns in terms of the chemistry behind them. Its not as if there is a physical part of the pant called the internal clock.

SOrry to hear you don't have 7k to invest in a grow room, I have roughly 5 in mine. Perhaps you should spend more time learning how to increase your yields so you can make some cash to build a pimpin room? Or perhaps, just perhaps, you might open yourself up to listen to others that maybe, just maybe, know a thing or two about plants and MJ cultivation.

I myself have zero interest in saving money on power at the expense of yield. Nor do I worry about temperatures because I realize the importance of temps and that is why I have a $1,500 spit AC unit. Am I going to apologize for being successful enough to buy whatever gear I want? absolutely not. Am I going to continue trying to contribute to this thread in the face of your immaturity? Also absolutely not.
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Yeah, I chose to invest my 7G in 3 grow rooms and I GAURANTEE you those are producing WAY more than your 1. Don't use CO2 either, so with your theory of 40% higher yield with CO2, my buds look pretty good at day 35 without having to add any. Blow all the money you want on your fancy grow room and I will just blow it up. Do you like apples? How do you like them apples?
 
snew

snew

Well-Known Member
legallyflying I enjoyed the information that you presented. I don't near that kind of money in a grow, so electricity costs, inability to cool rooms in excessive summer heat are all issues I deal with.
Using the 12-1 enabled me to keep my veg room much cooler through the summer since I didn't have light during the heat of the day.I have a veg clone room and a flower room. I veg for along as a flower. I generally ended up with plants bigger than I wanted after 8-9 weeks of veg. My plants are denser than previous grows but maybe a little shorter. I'm just getting ready to place those plants in flower so we'll see the finished results in a couple of months.

By the way I love you tag:
" Originally Posted by askonja
I'm planning on growing 60-70 plants. I'm going to be using approximately 20 1000w lights.........Thanks but I don't understand how a aircooled reflector works?"

Hilarious thank you.
 
hempknightt

hempknightt

Active Member
legallyflying said:
This mostly relates to the notion of 24/7 light and growth but it also addresses the 12-5-1-5 regime. Of course plants grow more with 24/7 light. It's 25% more light and thus 25% more opportunity to produce sugars. HOWEVER, the actual photosynthetic rate slows down after 18 hours of light, and really slows down after 20-21 I honestly can't remember but it was in the low 20's. So while your plant does indeed grow more...it is growing much less efficiently. So in lamens terms, your getting something for the extra 6 hours of light, but the ROI is actually lower per watt. This is where the recommendation for 18 hours of light comes from..your achieving the highest growth RATE given light inputs. I think that 33% figure is completely bunk BTW. It simply doesn't jive with the processes that are going on. Ergo...it has been proven that photosythetic rate decreases over prolonged light saturation yet you are claiming a 33% increase from 25% more light. Anyways, not going to dwell on that. I did a metric fuckload of research on 24 hour light and very little was from MJ forums. There is a wealth of published literature on the subject. It is a google away.
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so in 12-1 plants grow slower and maybe more efficiently and in 18/6 or 24/0 plants grow faster but less efficiently... if thats right than either way is virtually the same and outcomes would be based on the plant genetics and its reaction to the light cycle its given
 
LILBSDAD

LILBSDAD

Well-Known Member
Just wanted to apologize to legallyflying and skunkushyhybrid for coming off like a tool. That is really not my style and everyone is entitled to their opinion. I will refrain from attacking anyone on here, because it is a waste of time and energy to be honest. Best of luck to everyone in their grows
 
skunkushybrid01

skunkushybrid01

Well-Known Member
LILBSDAD said:
Just got caught up in it bro. Not offended in any way, there are always things we can learn from one another and nobody is perfect.
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very true... i think it's partly my fault as I may come across as being a bit of a dick when i don't mean to. I think it's because i'm British. Most of the time i just tell what i know and the other side does the same, i may not agree right away... but in the future i can change my mind. that's life and perfectly normal. we all can't be right all of the time.. but disagreeing helps us learn. that's my take on it anyway. that's my only reason for sharing my knowledge. before i can figure out if something is right i have to test the theory. i don't care if i'm wrong. we learn the most from our mistakes, it's the learning that is the important thing in the end.
 
W

whitey78

Well-Known Member
Wow, I managed to read all 22 pages of this thread and had to do all I could to stop where I was on numerous occasions and post something to the "haters" on this thread. If you dont like the idea of saving electricity, dont.... but you didnt have to pollute this thread in order to prove that you like throwing money away or who ever said that. That being said, if the rest of you can talk civil to said haters at this point, please do so but I'm all about saving electricity at the moment, that and heat are out to get me seeing I've just had a "smart meter" installed in my home and at the place I grow over the past few months, so yes I am running this method, I havent been doing so for long but I think I will be doing so from now on. Normally in the space I lease to grow, normally running a veg tent on 20/4 600 watts and a flowering tent on 12/12 @ 2000 watts, throw in the A/C unit that runs 24/7 (along with a few other things that run 24/7 that consume like crack whores) I am into the electric company for anywhere between $6 and 700 a month and that doesnt include the $250-300 bill I get at home every month and I'm hardly ever there, so basically I give the electric company a $1000 a month or close to it and I am sick of it, and my money isnt coming from my grow, it comes from me working until my fingers bleed literally, its sort of a revolving door, I grow weed to sell it, I sell it so I can grow more...so I can sell more...so I can grow more....see the pattern, theres a lot of smoking and a LOT of sharing it in there too. Personally, I get a better feeling when I can give someone a bag rather than sell it to them, but it only seems the sick folk truly appreciate the work I put into my bud so the un-sick pay through the nose and the sick dont pay a dime in my world.

My first bill running the 12-1/lantern method has brought me down below $550 and thats only a little over 2 weeks of the month, its mainly because I only have to run A/C if I am running both tents at the same time and doing 18/6 for my veg tent they are running together for 6 hours out of the day and those 6 hours carry some of the heat over into the next 6 hour period and so on, the entire time all the lights are lit up the A/C is just cycling on and off, and the on cycles always seem longer than the off. Now I was able to flip flop them only having them both on for that single hour and I dont have to run the A/C at all on top of saving myself 5 hours at 600 watts, that may not seem like much but over the course of 52 weeks.....it adds up, as well as does me running my 2 1k lights an hour less (for starters) a day. And to the poster who said the big boy lights consume the most energy when they start up.... I dont know about your hid ballasts but mine start out drawing right around 350 watts (have one of those meters that shows how much wattage is being pulled at the plug), starting out dim slowly working up to full power, 1000 watts (actually about 1090) over the course of a couple minutes. Not to mention they are mag ballasts so they are fairly cheap to replace and last a long time as it is. I am aware digital ballasts use less but they dont last as long, and regular bulbs dont last as long with them, and at roughly double the cost, they arent worth it either. I have a family, no matter how much I make its never enough, so I can only spend so much on my toys so saving money on my hobby seems logical, I'd love to run a commercial op but again....I have a family that I provide for, no need for me to be in jail not being able to provide anything.

I dont know, I just really think its kinda fucked up how more people jumped all over LILBsdad like he raped a 6 year old boy for trying to enlighten others with information, dude never said it was the best, or its gonna make you grow 10lb buds in half the time, just informed us on the method someone else discovered and documented. Rather than try it yourselves like he did, you bash him.....think about that attitude in this world and the direction the US is heading (I understand we all arent from the US but the rest of the world is in a very similar climate, climate meaning a nice word for headed the way of the soviet union did 30 years or so ago). Different isnt bad, its just....different. I know this method sounds pretty weird and I honestly read that article just to kill some time, never thinking I would be using it as it was to complicated having to add that hour of light after the first 5.5 hours of darkness, as well as just not seeming natural. Well just FYI for all, growing indoors under 1000 watt lights isnt natural, nor is chemical ferts even though some say "natural" rather than organic, but we've all used those at some point, not to mention that a lot of our nations food is grown with things a lot worse than the chem ferts we use in weed, and we eat that shit.

Sorry for the ramble, I was nice and lifted when I started reading this thread, by the time I got to page 15 my high was blown and I had to smoke again....hence the ramble.....

Anyhow, LILBsdad, +reps to you even though I dont think I can give you any yet seeing I'm a new member but you put up with a lot of shit in this thread and still stuck it out for our benefit by showing your progress, thank you.

When I start my next grow that has been grown from seed/clone with the 12-1/lantern method I will post a grow journal.
 
Ace Spoddity

Ace Spoddity

Member
whitey78 said:
Wow, I managed to read all 22 pages of this thread and had to do all I could to stop where I was on numerous occasions and post something to the "haters" on this thread. If you dont like the idea of saving electricity, dont.... but you didnt have to pollute this thread in order to prove that you like throwing money away or who ever said that. That being said, if the rest of you can talk civil to said haters at this point, please do so but I'm all about saving electricity at the moment, that and heat are out to get me seeing I've just had a "smart meter" installed in my home and at the place I grow over the past few months, so yes I am running this method, I havent been doing so for long but I think I will be doing so from now on. Normally in the space I lease to grow, normally running a veg tent on 20/4 600 watts and a flowering tent on 12/12 @ 2000 watts, throw in the A/C unit that runs 24/7 (along with a few other things that run 24/7 that consume like crack whores) I am into the electric company for anywhere between $6 and 700 a month and that doesnt include the $250-300 bill I get at home every month and I'm hardly ever there, so basically I give the electric company a $1000 a month or close to it and I am sick of it, and my money isnt coming from my grow, it comes from me working until my fingers bleed literally, its sort of a revolving door, I grow weed to sell it, I sell it so I can grow more...so I can sell more...so I can grow more....see the pattern, theres a lot of smoking and a LOT of sharing it in there too. Personally, I get a better feeling when I can give someone a bag rather than sell it to them, but it only seems the sick folk truly appreciate the work I put into my bud so the un-sick pay through the nose and the sick dont pay a dime in my world.

My first bill running the 12-1/lantern method has brought me down below $550 and thats only a little over 2 weeks of the month, its mainly because I only have to run A/C if I am running both tents at the same time and doing 18/6 for my veg tent they are running together for 6 hours out of the day and those 6 hours carry some of the heat over into the next 6 hour period and so on, the entire time all the lights are lit up the A/C is just cycling on and off, and the on cycles always seem longer than the off. Now I was able to flip flop them only having them both on for that single hour and I dont have to run the A/C at all on top of saving myself 5 hours at 600 watts, that may not seem like much but over the course of 52 weeks.....it adds up, as well as does me running my 2 1k lights an hour less (for starters) a day. And to the poster who said the big boy lights consume the most energy when they start up.... I dont know about your hid ballasts but mine start out drawing right around 350 watts (have one of those meters that shows how much wattage is being pulled at the plug), starting out dim slowly working up to full power, 1000 watts (actually about 1090) over the course of a couple minutes. Not to mention they are mag ballasts so they are fairly cheap to replace and last a long time as it is. I am aware digital ballasts use less but they dont last as long, and regular bulbs dont last as long with them, and at roughly double the cost, they arent worth it either. I have a family, no matter how much I make its never enough, so I can only spend so much on my toys so saving money on my hobby seems logical, I'd love to run a commercial op but again....I have a family that I provide for, no need for me to be in jail not being able to provide anything.

I dont know, I just really think its kinda fucked up how more people jumped all over LILBsdad like he raped a 6 year old boy for trying to enlighten others with information, dude never said it was the best, or its gonna make you grow 10lb buds in half the time, just informed us on the method someone else discovered and documented. Rather than try it yourselves like he did, you bash him.....think about that attitude in this world and the direction the US is heading (I understand we all arent from the US but the rest of the world is in a very similar climate, climate meaning a nice word for headed the way of the soviet union did 30 years or so ago). Different isnt bad, its just....different. I know this method sounds pretty weird and I honestly read that article just to kill some time, never thinking I would be using it as it was to complicated having to add that hour of light after the first 5.5 hours of darkness, as well as just not seeming natural. Well just FYI for all, growing indoors under 1000 watt lights isnt natural, nor is chemical ferts even though some say "natural" rather than organic, but we've all used those at some point, not to mention that a lot of our nations food is grown with things a lot worse than the chem ferts we use in weed, and we eat that shit.

Sorry for the ramble, I was nice and lifted when I started reading this thread, by the time I got to page 15 my high was blown and I had to smoke again....hence the ramble.....

Anyhow, LILBsdad, +reps to you even though I dont think I can give you any yet seeing I'm a new member but you put up with a lot of shit in this thread and still stuck it out for our benefit by showing your progress, thank you.

When I start my next grow that has been grown from seed/clone with the 12-1/lantern method I will post a grow journal.
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I couldn't agree more. @ skunkushybrid01 what the fuck does being british have to do with being a dick?
 
haole420

haole420

Active Member
a simple "ya-ha" or "nu-uh" would do. jeez. it's easier to be a dick when there are no consequences. when we say things anonymously, we have the luxury of just spewing whatever psychoemotional shit happens to be festering in us. the hating/counterhating, not just in this thread but in countless others throughout the internet, has nothing to do with 12-1 vs 24 or 16 or 18 or however many fucking hours someone chooses to veg and the purported optimal effects of such a lighting schedule or what he said or what she said. maybe all this bullshit has more to do with our own frustration in our grow room, at home, at work, in life in general, whatever.

look, we're all in the same boat. i'm no grand master grower and neither are you, or you wouldn't be wasting your time with a thread entitled "12-1 lighting schedule, has anyone actually tried this?" furthermore, we're all outlaws, doin' this shit underground (well, most of us, at least). we're all being oppressed by "the man:" a bunch of investment bankers and their corporate/political cronies polishing off 100-hour work weeks by doing coke of a hooker's ass in the Hamptons. no wonder this prohibition has lasted this long: this thread makes us look like a bunch of fucking retarded stoners with delicate egos. how adolescent.

anyway, i tried 12-1 for about a week and continue to do so. it didn't stress out my girls at all. they're all fine and, so far, aren't showing any signs of going into flowering. my veg was getting a little crowded and i needed to stall, so i recently started unscrewing lightbulbs and went from ten 4' T8s and eight 2' T5s down to four T8s and three T5s. i saw what seamed to be a pretty direct, linear relationship between wattage and rate of foliar growth in veg. i saw the same kind of effect this week after going from 18 hours of light down to 12 (+ 30 minutes of light during the middle of the dark period). mission accomplished: growth slowed as health of foliage remained unchanged.

saving a few watts doesn't hurt either. i don't care about spending the money, i just don't want my power bill to conspicuously SHOW that i'm spending more money on power, if you know what i mean. also, the wattage, hours of light, nutes, or anything else you throw at a plant is subject to the law of diminishing returns: the more of something you use, the harder it is for the plant to eek out value from that something. i'm after efficiency. in particular, cost-efficiency, space-efficiency, time-efficiency. i'm doing this for profit, not for some goddamned trophy. i want to create the best product i can with as little time, space, and money as possible. spending 50% more watts (or watthours or whatever the fuck unit i'm supposed to use) only makes my plants grow faster in veg, which is not what i'm after. it doesn't give me better yield or potency in any shorter a time when everything is all said and done. yes, the plant would be bigger when it goes into flowering if i stuck to 18 hours light in veg, but it would also take up more space the whole time. it's a wash, so why spend more power or money in veg?

an interesting thing i did notice was that the roots of my clones that rooted during this last week of 12-1 were thicker (and maybe a little shorter) than they normally are. i'm interested to see what effect this has on my other plants (in hydro and coco) that are still in veg. i guess i'll see the next time i repot. for me, veg isn't just about foliage, it's about bomb-ass roots...
 
W

whitey78

Well-Known Member
haole420 said:
veg isn't just about foliage, it's about bomb-ass roots...
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Gotta agree with you there, I end up chopping a lot of the bullshit foliage off before I flip and I am doing another mild defoliation around week 3 of flower, all I care about is (buds) structure and enough root growth to support that structure, without popping nanners because I hacked it to death either.

"the internet has been the biggest test in anarchy in our history" some fucking guy..... the internet offers that whole anonymity thing, I dont particularly like dick heads either but enjoy it while it lasts because it will inevitably come to an end as soon as the "da man" can convince/scare the rest of the people in the world into believing its safer without the current freedoms that we kinda-almost have and start issuing tickets for lewd behavior online or having NWO officers come banging on your door 3.5 minutes after you send your GF a cock pick or some shit, so be a dick and enjoy it I guess, just try not to fuck up intelligent conversations in the process.

Edit: but the thing that I really want to know/figure out is, does this light schedule work better with a certain type of growing/medium/nutes..... At the moment I grow in a soil-less mix of fox farm mixes with some added coco and perlite to stretch it a bit but I am thinking of switching to 100% coco rather than soil-less. Any input on that anyone? I dont thing it should matter but I am curious if anyone has any ideas there.
 
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