12-1 lighting schedule, has anyone actually tried this?

skunkushybrid01 said:

so what is the point in the rest of your post?

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good point

i guess i'm speaking to ad hominem attacks against the person, not the topic of discussion. kinda like the tea party: obama's a muslim fundamentalist, obama's a manchurian candidate, blah, blah, blah. it's the state of our society these days. don't like what someone has to say? distract everyone by attacking the messenger, not the message...

whitey78 said:

Edit: but the thing that I really want to know/figure out is, does this light schedule work better with a certain type of growing/medium/nutes..... At the moment I grow in a soil-less mix of fox farm mixes with some added coco and perlite to stretch it a bit but I am thinking of switching to 100% coco rather than soil-less. Any input on that anyone? I dont thing it should matter but I am curious if anyone has any ideas there.

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i'm using 100% coco. no sign of stretching after switching to 12-1. my guess is that stretching has more to do with low intensity light (too few watts too far away) rather than hours of light...

haole420 said:

i'm using 100% coco. no sign of stretching after switching to 12-1. my guess is that stretching has more to do with low intensity light (too few watts too far away) rather than hours of light...

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I meant stretch the mix out so I could fill more pots with it bro, LOL...no problem though.

I just wanted to report here that putting my current ladies under 11/13 without having done the 12-1 method of veg has induced flowers faster than the last time I did with clones from these plants under 12/12. I had 2 more plants that I wasnt able to sex with the clones I took from the others, one of those 2 has turned out to be male which popped nads on day 5, as well as 3-4 other females are pushing a few pistils up already as well this morning. When I put the clones of these under 12/12 males showed at day 11 and fems showed on day 13. Also, I let these clones root before I stuck them under 12/12 to sex, I planned on keeping them but then wasnt able to.

Thats quite a bit of difference in times, these are all 8-9 week strains, I'm figuring they are going to finish before then. I'll see I guess.

I have a pic of the sacs forming but the flash screwed it up, its posted below. I'd grab another pic be he's been chopped up, although i did take 2 cuts of it and stuck them in my veg tent, we'll see what happens. They were just cut and dipped in rooting gel then put in a small pot of light warrior, I didnt do anything special, if they make it they make it, If not no worries. I've been wanting to do a small cross to get some seeds for a rainy day so if it works out this may be the male.

My no longer in 1 piece TGA chernobyl#1



nads, trying to take a pic with my phone anyhow





My 4x8 tent at sunrise, shitty pics....sorry

Glad we are back on track again in this thread. I will be posting day 42 updates tomorrow

LILBSDAD said:

Glad we are back on track again in this thread. I will be posting day 42 updates tomorrow

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Looking forward to seeing them.

I started my plants in flower last Wednesday. These are the first that I went 12-1 in veg and they look great I would take pictures but my camera has disappeared.
I still have my other plants in flower and will be harvesting by the 1st of next week and then moving the these under my HPS but for now the are still under my 4 t-5's and 2 LEDS. The only draw back is there is not room in the beg room for larger pots, so I can move them out of the 1 gallon pots untill 2nd week of flower so hopefully this will work well.
I'm trying to flower for 2 weeks under t-5's, which I hope will allow me and extra harvest before next summers heat.

I am on my second grow using 12/1 veg timing. I love it. It was july I started it.
The veg room is 105 watts/square foot so the plant gets enough light in those 13 hours, although the hour at midnight does more to stop budding than it adds to growth. NO STRETCH in the Northern Lights, the sativa is bagseed, culled from 200 choices but no name bagseed still, didn't stretch either.
Stems are stronger and I can veg an extra few days, I always seem to be out of space in the budroom.

It works just as well with both sativa and indica. Budding does not seem to be affected, a 12" plant gave the same yield vegged 18/6 or 12/1.
When vegging 18/6 the lights were at 70 watts/square foot, more light than that doesn't add to my strains.

I did not read the entire thread, this works for me and my experience with it is what it is.

looking forward seein them bitches mate...

@ whitey78 Hi... could you tell me how long you veg'ed your clones for before switching to flower?

Also, something is nigling me about how clones can start flowering faster? clones are usually sexually mature already.... so after a little veg they should all start flowering right away.

The above male in question is from seed, that and one other I was not able to sex at the time I mentioned.

As far as clones, I have cuts of all my from seed plants but they are not the ones being flowered, about a month and a half ago (or so) I took cuts of 9 plants that were grown from seed (and that one male I posted above and his "sister" were too young to take cuts of so I just found out I had 1 M and 1 F even though I thought they were both F), those cuts were rooted and put in under 12/12 after a few days of being rooted and filling the pots they were in, I was doing it to sex them but I planned to keep them and flower them out but I just couldnt keep them at the time, but sexing was more important (not a bad ratio at 2 males out of 11 regular seeds). Those cuts were just getting to maturity when I sexed them, so maybe thats why they took so long and the ones I just placed in my tent last wed. (snew...we're on the same sch. it looks like) took to the flip so fast... I dont know. But out of the few times I've sent plants in to flower, I havent seen pistils like I'm seeing now in less than 10-12 days, although this is the first time with these genetics though. I am not saying I'm 100% sold on this method yet even though I really dont have a choice, but everything that was stated here and in the articles has proven true so far in my opinion, I just have to see what they come out like on the other end. I gotta say the 11/13 sch. initiated flowering faster than any other time I've flowered, granted it hasnt been too many times but enough to say this time has been the fastest.

One thing I do not understand that I read in skunk magazines current issue is, the article states that you get bigger buds with a small description that loses you and starts on another subject without much explanation as to how and why you get bigger buds. I am not seeing how that can be possible with less total hours of light but stranger things have happened I guess, I think thats where all that talk of auxins and all that come in and loose me. I assume its one of those, "bigger buds are a possibility" not definitely type statements..

What I do notice is my plants arent stretching like I thought they would, I have a tent full of short flowering sativa dom hybrids (all TGA beans), the only one I was starting to see a fair amount of stretch from was the male that got chopped and he was leaning to more sativa. But once again, let me state that the plants I am flowering did not get vegged under the 12-1 sch. I am just using the flowering component of the method with them and more importantly its only day 6, so I'll have to see. The others I have in veg are under 12-1 though and as soon as my flowering tent gets freed up....gonna be awhile... but we shall see. However, I expected a lot of stretch with the girls that I have in flower now seeing I had them under a traditional light sch. for veg.

Aside from the 11/13 sch. I am doing, the only thing I am doing differently this time than I did any other time is I am running MH bulbs in my 1k's rather than HPS, I will be switching over to that tomorrow. I'll post some pics tonight when the lights come on of what I have going. One plant that stretch will be very visible on is my scrogged jilly bean, seeing its scrogged all the stretch is gonna be visible.

Edit: tonight when I post pics I'll post pics of the plants I have in flower that have corresponding clones that I am flowering as well, I havent really looked to see which are farther along but I think the from seed plants are, but I'll post pics and you decide.

whitey78 said:

...
Aside from the 11/13 sch. I am doing, the only thing I am doing differently this time than I did any other time is I am running MH bulbs in my 1k's rather than HPS, I will be switching over to that tomorrow. I'll post some pics tonight when the lights come on of what I have going. One plant that stretch will be very visible on is my scrogged jilly bean, seeing its scrogged all the stretch is gonna be visible.
...

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Explain why your using the MH bulb in the beginning of flower and what it does for you. I remember reading about using MH in the 1st few weeks but I can't find the reference to it.
I picked up 6, 1000w MH bulbs this summer for $5. They had been left out in a shed for along time. I cleaned them up and 1 was broke and the other 5 work fine. I was considering selling them on e-bay but would rather find a use.

Like the rest of us I read a lot, and again, like the rest of us....I forget a lot of shit. But running the MH bulbs for the first week of flower is another thing to help keep the plants shorter and stretch less like they would under the red light of HPS I am thinking. I have to find it, I made this decision months ago and forgot where I found it. I'm also still feeding my girls grow nutes as well. The first few weeks of flower (basically when the stretch is going on) they are still growing bud sites and foliage more than they are putting their energy into buds, so why give my plants nutes for bud production, same thinking with the MH bulbs. I am giving them flower nutes but its a mixture that contains more grow than flower nutes. For sativa's or anything thats flowering longer than 10 weeks its recommended to feed veg nutes and run MH for the first 2 weeks, granted mine are all sativa dominant, they are shorter flowering strains, I think my querkle ladies are 10 weeks max.



This is where I started reading about transitional feeding and the part about running a MH or blue light for the same amount of time may be on that site, I'll definitely take a look to see if I can find it.

http://medicalmarijuana.com/kyle-kushman-Transition-Stage-Feeding

Edit: I cant find it but what my intentions were was to run the MH until the buds set, from there I was going to swap to HPS but being nervous about losing any (more) quantity made me start thinking I should switch over to HPS at the one weeks mark. Now I read myself into confusion about what to do, LOL... got stop smoking indi's in the morning..

yeah i think we need to discuss what stretch is with our plants in an effort to better understand it. At least I do.... my earlier understanding, i'll admit, was pretty basic. In that I simply associated stretch as a reaction to the dark. although this does happen on a reactionary basis too, this only occurs when the plant is put into shade... the shade response. the difference with the shade and full dark is obviously that the light is still on and the plant is trying to outgrow the shade. I now ralise that to associate the two things was a misconception.

In full darkness there is no light to stretch to. However, during flower the plant will stretch, but only at certain periods. A plant does not consistently stretch throughout flower. So stretch must be entirely genetic and caused by flowering rather than darkness. although of course it takes darkness to induce flower to begin with, the actual dark has no effect on how much the plant will stretch.

The repetitiveness off and on cycle will *NOT* make your equipment last longer, that's for sure. Anyone who knows anything about electronics can tell you this.

I think it has a little to do with both genetics and the reaction to the light being taken away, plants grow in the dark right? During the day they photosynthesize the light provided into sugars and once the lights go out it can start to utilize those sugars, correct? The longer the dark period, the longer it has to use the sugars it built up during the past light period, right? (I'm not being a smart ass, I'm actually asking if what I believe is true as we go along here, I know I read this shit places but I just dont know if all of it was some tool on a forum spewing bullshit or out of my cannabis books). As well as when the lights go out, the plant reaches for the light and the longer the lights-on period is, the more they are going to stretch (there are more factors like amount of light and diet I believe also), same scenario as it growing out of the shade except its going the only way it can, up because it doesnt sense light anywhere else, ever put a plant half in half out of the light with flouro's or cfl's, that bitch will lean over 90 degree's saying "gimme a Y" pointing towards the light, no?

But say now you run 24 hours of light.......now the plant has no dark period to stretch, so they stay short and stout but the root development isnt as good, 20/4 gives a good mix of both. As well as the plants will pre-flower faster under a longer night period like 18/6.

At least thats what I've read, a lot coming from the assorted cannabis books I have, also a lot comes from the forums, so I'd say at least 80-85% of what I say has come from some kind of reputable source but double check 100% of it on your own before repeating it and looking stupid (then again, who double checks reputable sources???) but thats what I believe to be true.

Anyhow, I took some pics for you guys and I'm feeling like a tool, I think I was more excited to see pistils and they grew in my head while it was lights out and I was talking about them here, LOL... J/K, but reality was harsher when I got down there and they werent as burly as they were in my head this afternoon but still...I've never seen pistils for at least 10 days in to 12/12. But I still came out of my garden smiling today as they look like they are setting up nicely and if all goes well I should have some good yielders I think....

My LST'd jilly bean






jilly bean scrog










One of my jilly bean clones





My LST'd querkle looking a little droopy, if I dont let this plant almost dry out to death she crinkles her leaves up like I over water her, this was right after a watering.






A side shot of one my "the void"




Randoms, I have like 5 more plants that I didnt show....

BigBuddahCheese said:

The repetitiveness off and on cycle will *NOT* make your equipment last longer, that's for sure. Anyone who knows anything about electronics can tell you this.

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Like I said, I use magnetic ballasts for flowering, the extra wear and tear is negligible because of the cost is so low and the savings in electricity a month can almost, if not completely replace a magnetic ballast for me just with electricity savings. As it is, I have 1 extra 1000w switchable ballast in my closet, brand new in the box, never opened along with 3 new 1000watt HPS bulbs and 2 1000w MH bulbs just for the day that it explodes on me. All this is more about the smart meter for me more than anything, so if I have to go through a ballast a month in order to grow....so be it.

Now for the real important part, I use flouro's for veg. So that POS can turn on 10,000 times a day for all I give a shit, my 1000w ballasts only go on once a day like they are supposed to.

View attachment 1845014View attachment 1845013View attachment 1845012View attachment 1845011View attachment 1845010View attachment 1845009 OK, rarely do I get to update all 3 of my rooms since obviously they are not all in one house. Today I made my rounds and brought my camera so here we go. Day 42 update and will be switching light cycle to 9 1/2 on 13 1/2 off for next two weeks. Will be flushing C-99s and a couple others that look to be getting close ( I expect C-99 to be done at 50 days and others right after). Warlock, and Chocolope look like they may need two more weeks at least.

View attachment 1845017View attachment 1845016Day 28 from flipping to 11-13. Grape God and Blue Widow. I agree with Skunk on the stretch being genetics (temp can definitely affect as well). Sativas are going to stretch as they usually do, and indicas stay shorter. These were grown from seed using 12-1 lighting cycle.

View attachment 1845020Day 17 from flipping to 11-13. Chocolate Rain, Jackberry X NYCD, Alpha Dawg, and a few other strains

whitey78 said:

I think it has a little to do with both genetics and the reaction to the light being taken away, plants grow in the dark right?

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Growth processes are considerably slowed during the dark. This is because the plant only has a limited amount of energy stored from the light. if it uses all of that energy before the lights come back on then it would most likely die. Obvioulsy it would take the light not coming on for several days to kill a plant. In an experiment i once did, where i grew a plant in the dark, the plant lasted approximately 2 weeks. It was an established plant too, bushy and around 18" high.

During the day they photosynthesize the light provided into sugars and once the lights go out it can start to utilize those sugars, correct? The longer the dark period, the longer it has to use the sugars it built up during the past light period, right?

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the plant will utilise the sugars during the day also. the dark reactions are a misnomer in that they don't only happen during the night. they were simply called the dark reactions because they can happen independently of photosynthesis, even though they need the energy derived from photosynthesis to occur in the first place. but they are going on all the time, day and night. if there is no night then the plant will make energy and utilise it more efficiently.

As well as when the lights go out, the plant reaches for the light and the longer the lights-on period is, the more they are going to stretch (there are more factors like amount of light and diet I believe also), same scenario as it growing out of the shade except its going the only way it can, up because it doesnt sense light anywhere else, ever put a plant half in half out of the light with flouro's or cfl's, that bitch will lean over 90 degree's saying "gimme a Y" pointing towards the light, no?

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here is where things get confusing... talking about stretch. Lots of people here, myself included as i have lots of experience growing seedlings and clones straight to 12/12 with no veg', have found that plants with 12 hours of light do not stretch hardly at all. Until they actually start flowering. for example, i place seedlings straight to 12/12 but they don't flower right away... it can take them 4 weeks to start flowering even under 12/12. during those 4 weeks the plants do not stretch... then when they hit flower they begin to stretch. no change in light schedue... the plants simply decide that now is the time to stretch. so stretch has to be completely genetic. In complete darkness there is no light to reach to.

But say now you run 24 hours of light.......now the plant has no dark period to stretch, so they stay short and stout but the root development isnt as good, 20/4 gives a good mix of both. As well as the plants will pre-flower faster under a longer night period like 18/6.

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That isn't true about pre-flowers. Under 24/0 i've had pre-flowers in as little as 3 weeks veg'. Plants will pre-flower whilst still in veg... and they do faster on 24/0. Flowering is genetic. a large plant also doesn't need a large root ball... plants can and do shut down entire sections of the root system at a time and still grow to full potential. the roots will grow anyway...

At least thats what I've read, a lot coming from the assorted cannabis books I have, also a lot comes from the forums, so I'd say at least 80-85% of what I say has come from some kind of reputable source but double check 100% of it on your own before repeating it and looking stupid (then again, who double checks reputable sources???) but thats what I believe to be true.

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those aren't reputable sources.

http://www.topix.com/forum/science/plant-biology
http://www.protocol-online.org/forums/forum/56-botany-and-plant-biology/

also this next one is an amazing forum. Lot of farmers post there, real farmers that make money from crops. It's their livelihood, and listening to bullshit could mean they don't get fed for a year.
http://www.gardenbanter.co.uk/