1400w Psuedo-Hydro-Organic Coco mix: Nirvana Ice and my Element Zero

Oh man,
So much has happened over the last 5 days I don't know where to begin.
First, some plants thought female were in fact cross-dressing pre-sexers. Out of 20 seeds, 19 sprouted and 12 were male. Giggity gay... but considering the ratio on my last grow being like 14 for 18 with only 4 males... Karma is balanced once again.

So then my cat gets sick. Turns out he is really, really sick. He is a ragdoll and apparently he has a genetic disposition towards Hyper Cardio Myopathy (enlarging of the heart, thickening of the arteries) and has been getting really bad now that he is about 18 months old. I have him on the "Barry Bonds" diet of steroids and antibiotics to help with the problem. It is basically a chronic inflammatory immuno-response disease that he is going to die of one way or another pretty soon. I'm hoping to nurse him back to health for a little while but he's living on borrowed time at this point.

Been a sad few days. I love this cat.

Then, the same day I get the diagnosis on him my 400w Galaxy Ballast burns out. I have no receipt and I purchased it about 600 miles from where I am currently. I just purchased a $70 digital bulb for the thing so I'm kinda pissed about all that too.

There I am, only 7 female plants, a dead ballast, wasted money, a $500 vet bill on my cc, and a dying cat.

There is yet a light at the end of the tunnel. My cat is improving today. Also, I call the place I got my light from (South Bay Hydroponics in San Jose, CA) Boom, they have a new store opened up in my area. And guess what, you have a 3 year trade in warranty on the ballast and it has only been 2 years and we have your account on file. Boo-kash. Then I grab a few clones from my tent and replace the pulled males with known females and kapow chicken I now have 9 female plants cruising. Despite not planning on topping or training I now have 4 topped plants, one super cropped plant, and two monster cropped plants.

Today was a better day than yesterday. I'll post some pictures in a couple minutes, lights go out in 10.

Sorry to hear about your cat man. Sounds like you have a good vet to diagnose something like that or at least order the tests to get moving on it. Hopefully he can have some more good days ahead.

I will check back in a bit, I want to see this monster cropped plant. lol

I will try to get some better pictures of the monster cropped plants up close tomorrow so you can see the results. I also am testing a little defoliation work on some of the "heavy leaved" plants that have internodes that are falling behind. This is the week I clean up the bottom of the plants and I'm doing a little work up top also.

Here's the room now:


The Nirvana Ice is the back four plants:


And the Element Zero makes up the front most plants:


They are working with a ~1350 uS/cm solution right now and are on bi-daily feedings now. Officially they are 7 days from the 12/12 switch although there was a mistake made with the light schedule about mid-week where a light was left on for about 2 hours longer than it should have. Might set back initiation a little bit but I'm not too stressed about it.

They are still pretty hungry despite the recent uS/cm increase from about 1100 to about 1350.

I hope your cat gets better. Did the Vet give him a script for medical MJ?
Sounds like things will get better.
Shagster

I hope your cat gets better. Did the Vet give him a script for medical MJ?
Sounds like things will get better.
Shagster

Wow really nice lookin' stuff you got going onthe, the plants look great! I also like the tent set up looking forward to more pics.

Scias13 said:

Wow really nice lookin' stuff you got going onthe, the plants look great! I also like the tent set up looking forward to more pics.

Click to expand...

Thanks for stopping by. I'll toss a few pictures up tomorrow.

Today I noticed that a leaf or two facing the vertical light on just a few plants were looking a little magnesium deficient so I mixed up a quick batch of foliar feed (they were due anyway).

It was 1ml per gallon of Liquid Karma, FlavorFul Fulvic Acid, BioWeed, Bud Candy, Cal-Mag Plus, a pinch of Epsom Salt (about 50ppm) and a drop of ivory dish soap as surfactant.

I sprayed the underside of the leaves, turned off the 400w vertical for a bit, and raised the 1000w so it's about 2.5 feet above the plants until the solution had dissipated. The results were instantaneous. The parts of the plant between the leaves that was looking a bit troubled became lush and green again.

This illustrates to me the importance of watching potassium and calcium levels around 3 weeks after transplanting. In my mind the calcium and potassium buffer in the coco is fulfilled and unnecessary excess of these elements causes a competition for Magnesium. Magnesium is a crucial element to chlorophyll and the distribution of energy inside of the plant, so when this element is deficient as a result of another elements toxicity. This indicates to me that I need to work on reducing the ppms for a very short time (1/2 strength next watering) and to keep a watchful eye on the ratios of these elements in the future.

The Bio Weed was especially useful for one of my phenotypes which demonstrates a tall and strong central stalk.

Another consideration here is that I'd noticed some eagle clawing on the under branches (not in direct light) so I stopped using my Nitric Acid based pH down and switched to a Phosphoric acid pH down. This issue with magnesium is something I see commonly when utilizing this pH down in coco. I think in the future I am going to reduce my anticipated Nitrogen ratio in order to compensate for the need of up to 2ml per gallon of my pH down solution before stable at 5.8pH.

Everything is back on track and the variation in phenotypes is really interesting.

I have one plant that is just soaring. The internode branches are way behind so I'll probably lollipop this plant. The fan leaves are HUGE and I've been working on keeping the magnesium ratios dialed, and stretch controlled, with foliar spray. So far so good.

The other two females I have are squat, broad leaved indicas. One of them I defoliated a bit and it has had a really good effect on the internode development. I think this is one strain that would be good trained and defoliated and given a good deal of vegetative time. Probably greater outdoors than in.

My revegged EZ clones are the sativa leaning phenotype I singled out in my last grow. This is the Mr. Nice influence coming into play.

All the Nirvana Ice look pretty similar. Some are a little shorter, some a little stretchier, but all in all very similar and uniform in growth. The internode branches on these plants have a little more space to fill out into and are really utilizing the vertical bulb more than the larger fan leaved Element Zeroes which have kind of angled themselves to keep the internodes from direct lighting. As such I did a lot of tucking during the last few days to give those braches a chance to catch up.

Sometime this weekend I'll clean up the bottom branches and bud sites to focus the plant's energy on the upper flower development to come in the following weeks.



In the second to last picture is the plant I removed 4 leaves from (basically at the top of the plant, and the result it had on the lower branch development). The last picture is the result of the monster croping (revegged clone).

Looking good Crash. I just put an Ice in my box today, we shouldn't be far apart

What are you giving in foliar spray? What are you using to help prevent stretch? My Ice plants tend to grow tall and thin colas.

Snow Crash said:

It was 1ml per gallon of Liquid Karma, FlavorFul Fulvic Acid, BioWeed, Bud Candy, Cal-Mag Plus, a pinch of Epsom Salt (about 50ppm) and a drop of ivory dish soap as surfactant.

Click to expand...

This was the formula I mixed up and provided to the plants.

Tomorrow I am feeding with a 900 uS/cm solution (about 2/3 strength) to bring my levels down a touch. Generally I wind up with issues around this time of life as a result of nutrient imbalances and I really want to ensure I'm not over feeding while still providing more than adequate magnesium.

The temperatures recently have been a touch erratic so I don't think that is helping. I hit about 80 a few times over the last few days, and then dropped it to about 74ish, but the heat issue could have contributed.

Really, it is just one leaf that looks sick, but issues have to start somewhere...

Subbed

I can't wait to see how this turns out.

Yesterday was the first 1600uS/cm feeding (actually, it was more like 1650...) and most of the plants seem to be handling it fine up to this point. The magnesium issue I have noticed on the tallest plant has gotten no better and no worse since appearing. I think I'm on the verge with that.

Tomorrow there will be a 800uS/cm feeding. This is a solution of
2ml Coco A................Macro
2ml Coco B................Macro
1ml Cal-Mag Plus.......Micro
4ml Liquid Karma.......Chelate, Growth support
1ml Pro-Tekt..............Silicon Micro
0.33ml Hydroplex.......PK support
4ml Nirvana...............Organic bloom support
4ml Bud Candy...........Micro/Carbo/Resin
0.25ml SS Ultra..........Resin
~50uS/cm MgSO4......Micro

Fucking crazy right? So many different things!!! All in such low volumes though. Everything has a purpose and a place and it's all about keeping the ratios balanced. This system results in more or less (as accurate as I can calculate) a 1-1-1 solution with 1Ca and 1Mg.

The idea here is to continue to support the requirements of the Coco and the plant without running into burn issues at these new higher levels. The 1/2 strength feedings won't be "every other time" necessarily, but I will increase the frequency of them if I see the runoff EC escalate while running stronger nutrient solution.

I think the white balance came out a lot better this time. Much truer colors.





I'm off to Sonic!

Great grow man. I have a question. Are those grow pots homemade? If so I'm really interested in them. I'm starting my third grow and I'm building a 5 x 5 tent and will have then same number of plants as you and lighting.

Hey Crash, do you try to rotate 180 degrees every day or two? Just curious.

DankBudzzz said:

Great grow man. I have a question. Are those grow pots homemade? If so I'm really interested in them. I'm starting my third grow and I'm building a 5 x 5 tent and will have then same number of plants as you and lighting.

Click to expand...

Nope. Just regular old #3 SmartPots.

Shwagbag said:

Hey Crash, do you try to rotate 180 degrees every day or two? Just curious.

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Nope. The taller plant to the right has been shifted a little bit but other than that all the plants are going to stay right where they are.

Not necessarily move them, just turn them for even growth towards the vertical bulb. Is this not necessary?

Shwagbag said:

Not necessarily move them, just turn them for even growth towards the vertical bulb. Is this not necessary?

Click to expand...

I have heard bad things about rotating plants indoors so I don't practice it myself. When I was rotating plants I got a bunch of hermies, stress related, and I think all the jostling and changing of "where the sun is" kinda funked with them.

I have a horizontal 1000w bulb and a 5x5 area, so it isn't like the back of the plants are going to receive little to no light. They are still getting that 1000w of power tossed at them from above. The 400w vert actually only runs for about 10 of the 12 hours of their day, so most of the energy they are getting is in the form of the HPS bulb in the CoolSun Reflector.

In the future I may resolve to use the 1000w bulb vertically in the tent as well.

I fed most of the plants today with a 1450uS/cm solution using a dominating pk ratio now. The two plants I recently transplanted and brought in from the clone tent are on a different schedule for the moment.

It would seem that the 1650uS/cm solution I used a few days ago was probably too strong for some of the plants. The clones took it the worst, perhaps because they had to spend an extra day in the higher ppm solution before getting a 1/2 strength rinsing.

It also seems that too much nitrogen has been present for a little while now. I'm just starting to get that kind of dark green almost bluish leaves indicating a phosphorus deficiency with a Nitrogen toxicity. The eagle claw on the most sensitive plants says it all.

Live and learn. I'd been listening to some people about running more nitrogen through flowering and that didn't work out so well for me and my plants in coco. The Nitric Acid pH down I've been using hasn't helped I am sure.

The most recent feeding actually resulted in something very interesting that hasn't happened the entire grow. My runoff was actually lower than the solution I used, with most of the 30% run off coming in around 1350uS/cm (a drop of about .1ec). I think this means my coco is pulling in elements now, which I think indicates that the plants have begun pulling from the potassium element buffer.

I am trying to mimic other nutrient systems and their ratios with a variety of stuff so there will always be hiccups when dialing it in for the first few times. Right now I am trying to compensate for my Nitric acid and running a system that is closer to a 3-4-5 ratio. Initially I had planned on more of a 4-3-3 ratio at this point but I don't think I need that much nitrogen anymore.

The flowers are blowing the eff up but the stretchy Ice plant in the upper left corner has some really bizarre looking top colas. I am concerned it might be hermaphroditing... The EZ right next to that Ice plant has had a testicle or two I removed (along with the branches at those internodes) so I might have two plants that will be pulled soon if I see anything else I don't like.

Giving them a shot though.

Pictures tomorrow to show just how much these babies are growing. It is great to see!

For anyone curious about how I calculate my nutrient ratios and know what levels to mix each nutrient at to keep it all at a safe level in good ratios...

Here's a link to download my nutrient calculator:
http://www.megaupload.com/?d=GTGI4ATX

Before you use it let me do a little explaining of how everything is calculated (for the inner nerd in all of us).

*Disclaimer*

Nutrient companies are not obligated to give accurate representations of what is in their products. Inevitably, there will be more in the bottle than advertised because they only list the guaranteed elemental analysis and offer the ingredients list to entice a purchase. The true contents are different. As an example: Liquid Karma tests about 5 times over the guaranteed level. Canna Coco A+B has an extra 40%. Cal-Mag plus tests twice as high as it should. But their measurements compared to my measurements... it all just becomes so hodgepogded that, at best, these are ROUGH estimates. Ultimately there's an extra 50% or so more ppm than listed on the bottle and we are at a total loss trying to guess how those ppm are distributed.

The ppm calculations, and the approximate element ratio statements, are made based on listed values. I use the percentage of each element in the solution, then I convert from percent (1/100) to ppm (1/1,000,000), and compensate for the dilution rate into water. This gives me a predicted ppm. Each calculation is relational, because as more nutrients are added, the volume of the solution changes, and the concentration changes as well. As such, it takes some pretty interesting calculations to allow values such as "Zero" to be used.

The Calculated uS/cm is a prediction based upon months of measurements and records of systematically adding nutrients to water to determine the ratios they are off from the listed bottle. This allows me to find a kind of "average" so that I can convert my ppm levels calculated from the bottle (inherently false) to the uS/cm I should see from the meter when they are combined.

It has taken quite a bit of finesse but the final uS/cm is what I focus on while trying to keep the NPK ratios where I want them. Whatever is extra in the bottle that I cannot compensate for is out of my hands. So I have to just do my best at reading the plants and responding to where I think the ratios need to change to.

I have included the nutrient schedule that I am following (as of this moment). You can use the calculator to plug in my nutrient levels and see what I am using. You can also make a new copy and insert your own nutrients into the calculator (careful not to over write a box with a formula). The predicted uS/cm will ultimately be different for your nutrient line... but if you have a meter you can change the calculation done in this cube. I add up the NPK, and micro elements and multiply by 3.18, then add the value of the starting water. My water is ~120uS/cm to start. You're tap might be ~250uS/cm to start and your nutrients might be more of a 2.18 conversion to accurately predict the value.

Try to use the calculator only as a rough guide at understanding what you are throwing at your plants. Where the real info comes is in the feedback from the plant. It is all relational and it takes time to understand what you are calculating and how the plant reacts to those levels.

Today I open the tent and it was like WHAM! The changes are happening fast now. The stretch is over, but some plants are still adding a little bit here and there. The internode branches and flower sites are killer at this stage.

So it has been 20 days since I flipped to 12/12, though there were some early hiccups in that first week. Really, I'm not counting the start of flowering until probably the 24th of March (about a week later). There were several light period interruptions and timer issues during the first week of 12/12, so despite being initiated flowering took a little longer to kick in than it could have.

Depending on how you carve it these plants are somewhere in the 14 to 20 days of flowering range. Probably safe to call it day 17 and just average it.

Let's do that!!!

Day 17 of flowering: (for some reason, the light on the lower leaves gives a kind of deficiency appearance. Just a camera trick.)


And here's my eagle claw: