2nd attempt at 1st grow...problems again :-(

newwb

Active Member
to* even..ok....took some breaths....
I gave them a flush b/c the only thing different was I doused em in go-gnats yesterday...they mustn't have liked it, sure smelled nice (cedar oil or something)
I have the perfect sized shower for flushing/giving plants showers, like 3x3 with a hand held sprayer (isn't good 4 much else) gave em about twice pots amount then final I ran a gallon with a bit of kangaroots in it to heal the good bugs around the roots.
As terrible as they look all but 1 had beautiful white roots coming out the drain holes...except the tips were dying off from the air. I thought 3.8 gal would be plenty of root room for them to finish, I DO have 5 gal pots, should I bother transplanting them?
Now that I can't move from giving em all a shower...ughh.
Guess I will lay down awhile and wait to see if anyone has some advice!!!
Thanks and have a wonderful day!
 

newwb

Active Member
I take that back, now the new growth tips look like white stringy stuff, like all the new foliage is fried or something :(now what should I do??!!
since the new growth tips are looking dead should I top them? damnnnnit..oh and this morning I also noticed, all the biggest plants I put in the 3.8 gal pots, all have roots coming out the bottom side holes and are air pruning themselves, aren't they a bit small to have roots coming out the bottom, those are supposed to do ok with a 3-4' plant!
But THIS..in the pics, def isn't normal!
I swear every damn time they are getting close to be able to flower this shit happens, the last feed I gave them was ^ in P and K (early flowering stuff) I made sure the ppm stayed under 800(the chart says week 4 should be like 1400 ppm!)...wtf does this happen every damn time!?
This "learning" can get very expensive. I do have a lot of growth/branching on several of the bubbles, maybe I will try some clones..just don't know!!
I mean that would be one way of getting rid of the shitty growth and get them putting out more, hopefully healthier growth...these aren't supposed to be so nute sensitive..guess I read wrong :-O
Do you think the new growth looks like that because I gave them flowering nutes? Just have nothing to compare it to...so much for going to 12 soon...damnit I am not a quitter, but this killing of these beautiful plants is starting to be a bit more than I can handle.
Wanted to at least TRY to keep them on track w/ the feeding chart, even if at lower doses, so I could finally make it to flowering..would be nice to make it to a freaking harvest.
I do know watching them grow from seed it's even harder to watch shit go wrong, more time invested, etc..
Perhaps some people just CANT grow :-(
 

bkbbudz

New Member
Perhaps some people just CANT grow :-(
I absolutely refuse too believe this statement! Anyone can grow cannabis. I would love to help here and I will try to. But, this has gotten to be a pretty huge thread and it is well past my bed time. I am subbing though and will read through it tomoorow. If I can't help you I am sure I can find you someone who can.

First things first, CALM DOWN! LOL! If you have neg vibes about your girls or your ability to take care of them they will feel it. YOU CAN DO THIS! :lol::peace:
 

ismokealotofpot

New Member
Go ahead and transplant to five gallon. try to dig off the fungus gnat larva when you do. they look like little worms. sand on the top of the soil is a good idea. One more thing if you cut a potato and place it on top of the soil the larva will come to it in a few days. they will be under the potato slice. transplanting is a good way to get them.
 

lime73

Weed Modifier
just a idea...have you read your thread from the beginning? I think you will see where you may have gone wrong. imo you spray them with to many chemicals! it takes a couple days to see the effects, from spraying them, I have tried to tell you this, but you seem to refuse the advise you have been given? I think you over complicate what you are trying to accomplish by always spraying them with something...besides just water. KISS...the more you do to them.... the more that can go wrong.

your plants looked really nice up until when? ...just recently they started to go south on you again. peace
 

newwb

Active Member
until I used the gognats..I happened to have some, never thought I had a problem with them but this guy who gave me a couple plants said he had them, so he brought over a few diff things and said to treat my stuff..I never did at the time because I never visually SAW any bugs, nowhere...until the 1 gnat, then a 2nd the next time I gave them water..so I looked up how it is supposed to be used, then gave them all a pretty light spray and poured it in the soil (drench) to kill them at other stages, that may be in the soil.I mainly did a parameter spray around them and the open window (has screen but guessing small things can get in..)
Haven't seen anymore since spraying, and I didn't DO anything else, I mean additive wise, I did give them a flush to try to get rid of any sticking around in the soil, was due to flush anyway (every 4 wks..right?) I realize having oil it will stay in the soil to a certain degree, but according to my feeding schedule it says to flush before changing to budding nutes, and was kinda hoping at the rate they were going I could start the tiger bloom and cha-ching on the next feeding or the one after, read these will triple size while in flower, so figured 12" was enough to land a 3ish foot plant..
what I have been doing with them for feeding is I will give them a pretty weak feed, then a few days later if they were doing ok, I'd up it to maybe 1/2 strength..work my way up (I was still FAR under the 1000-1400(actually says 1890-2100!!) ppm then again it says seedings should get 350-420..
When I first got the fox farms nutes the guy at the store said he uses the line, that to try going 1/4 below what the schedule says..and even that has done damage to them, I think I was doing ok on the GH micro and bloom, but had to send in the brain bucket, still haven't got the new one they promised.
So the only nutes for soil I have are the fox farms..comes with Big bloom (which hardly has 1 of NP&K)which they recommend through the entire grow. grow big, which is 6-4-4. That one you start adding in on week 2(gave 1/4 1x a week), week 5 you start tiger bloom, which is 2-8-4 (their last feed was w/ 1/4 of the amount recommended)
So either they didn't like it even at 1/4 strength, which I doubt because they tolerated 680 ppm fine, (only bounced up to 758) or the gognats stuff didn't agree with that strain..(the romulan graqpefruit clone loved it and has almost doubled in size, even took a few clones off her) and the ice still hasn't grown much, but color is better..
I didn't realize I guess how different strains like totally diff things, I mean I have read it all over but didn't think it would be drastic differences...to truly KIS..I should only be growing 1 strain at a time, so have been thinking of getting a few of the smaller ones and giving them to the dispensary, just concentrating on the bubbleicious and the rom gf. (I can't get rid of the rom GF..she has gone from a V shaped twig to a very full, pretty plant, besides she was my first clone that took)and they are close in size so can bud together I figure.
Instead of starting the seedlings out in perlite like I did before, decided to use the soil/perlite mix at about 50/50..and the nutes in the soil is too hot for them, they just about all look like shit, I have pulled quite a few that were realllly bad.Starting over there again..this time with 7. 5 are fem and 2 reg. so hoping 1 will be a girl.
I probably should have waited on that until I made it through a full grow..but wanted to have more ready to start budding when the others are finished.
But what's done is done...and I usually only spray em with water...the bug thing kinda scared me and didn't get much feedback on it, so guess I was a bit panic'd.
I appreciate every bit of advice I get on here, in fact, have come to rely pretty heavily on it
I can see the day in the near future where I won't have cause to be back there all the time, once the hydro system is hooked up and working right this time, things should hopefully be a lot more simple.once everything gets "dialed in" should cruise on auto pilot except for res changes.
That is kinda where things are at right now..they are doing better..
 

newwb

Active Member
OK..I repotted the 2 biggest gals, or should I say the ones with the most roots in bottom..I went through the soil w/ a fine toothed comb (bit of exaggeration) but I did look it all over and where the soil and roots met, looked through the roots, didn't see 1 thing that wasn't supposed to be there.Very healthy looking/smelling
The first one had a pretty small rootball, which was weird, because some where coming out of the bottom(guess it could have had a couple long ones that broke off when repotting)..the 2nd had roots wrapped around the bottom, but plenty of space in between they could have been occupying, and I think these huge ones are 7 gal pots.
Thank god I have 45-50% perlite in there or theyd be having bad root troubles from staying wet so long..even though it holds water, it gives more spaces for o2, correct?
And usually after I water, when I do the daily rotation (of plants) I will usually give the pot a hard press/squeeze on all sides just to open it up and get more o2 in there.
I haven't heard a thing from CAP on my control bucket, crazy I shipped it with their label almost 2 weeks ago, should have had a new one by now!
I would like to have it ready 2 go when these seeds get 4-5 sets of leafs!(maybe a couple weeks..?) we shall see...I will be using what I DO know works, so I will put the seedlings into perlite filled solo cups until the roots spread out a bit, then into rockwool...though last time I think I let the roots get too long, it took them quite some time to be able to push through the rockwool, so I guess I should put them in while they just have 1 root...then they can figure out how to grow through the stuff, last time roots were pretty long, I draped them down into the hole where the plug fits, and used a shredded piece of rockwool to pack gently around the stem, but found on several plants the roots were circling the inside of the rockwool not really having much luck getting through it.
Any hydro/rockwool people ave any problems with seedlings in rockwool?
I do actually have the plug sized ones now, plus the bigger blocks, not 4x4's but just as wide but shorter, maybe 4'3 that's an option, and those little net cups with the bottoms cut out from an aerocloner I had made that I could never get a watertight seal on..me and leaks, story of my life!
I can put them in the plug, in the cup w/some hydroton..then at least i can have some control over the nutes they get, and just move 2 the buckets when my controller gets back.
wish me luck lol..
 

bkbbudz

New Member
Overall they look exceptionally well. IMHO the issues on the 1st 3 pics are not a big problem at all. I have seen A LOT worse make it back and produce. If you have not seen this yet please take 1 min to view.

[video=youtube;Oew-OwcPQjg]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Oew-OwcPQjg[/video]
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Oew-OwcPQjg
 

newwb

Active Member
so still were not sure what the rust colored spots are that are spreading? and new growth is growing twisted, and oddly?
Thank you, that eases my mind somewhat, but I want to fix whatever it is they need and aren't getting to flourish, or lay back let them recover if it's from over nuting them.
thanks for responding, going to watch that movie now ^^..
 

lime73

Weed Modifier
I think those spots came from spraying them,with whatever, with the lights on...and not having enough air moving over them to help dry the excessive moister off the leaves, which can cause this to happen.
 

newwb

Active Member
but that wouldn't cause my new growth to be twisted and not pretty like the rest of the plant (minus the thick rusty leaves)
It almost looks like the pic of potassium def, but I had given them 1 feeding of the preflower stuff which is higher in P&K, not so high in N...was their last feed, haven't given them anything but water since, but it shouldn't be that..wish my camera didn't blur when I try to get closeups of the foliage.
 

newwb

Active Member
yeah, have a box with like 3 g in receipts, but I DID buy my lights somewhere cheaper :-)That was just for meters, product, basically everything I needed to start growing/cloning..had to get the best or so I thought, now I wish I had the money back, if I would have used it to just buy my meds, it would have kept me supplied for a couple lifetimes.
BUT..I wanted to learn to grow!
So I decided to put them all back under the HO T-5 (4', 8 bulb, alternating red/blue)because the MH at 1000 watts doesn't seem to be doing any better, and for only 5 plants that are pretty small, seems a waste of money (now a worry, wasn't when I first started this)
I have 2 1000 watters, thought I would need 2 if I ever got 15 plants up to the size to start budding..
So yes..I have a 6 foot wall shelf unit, basically full of manyyy products, many haven't been touched.
I'm an opportunist, I read on one forum that cutting edge gives out their full line for free to "try"(so of course, I emailed them) plus I got the recipe for success free w/ my hydro unit.
I found where someone did a reworking of the foxfarms "nutrient feeding chart" more in line with what MJ needs.So since I have that full line, even the microbe brew and kangaroots which are from what I can see are organics, as well as the big bloom, you use that through the whole life of the plant..I also have foxfarms powder "marine cuisine" which from what I have read, a cup of that in a few gal soil is all that the FF Ocean mix soil has, it is 10-7-7.(this possibly can be used as a stand alone, if you knew how time released it was...)
I reallly don't like a feeding system that takes 8 diff bottles of shit...be nice to find a one part, start to finish thing like that Canadian company offers to medical patients, I almost bought some, but thought the numbers were kind of low to work for the entire grow, and there was no ^ in P&K for budding,if I knew how much they require at each stage, I would solve half or more of my damn problems!
I am still hoping to find something of this nature on my daily googling and reading.
Ideally, I could just water 2x a week and have all their nutes in the soil..maybe organic so I don't fry them, the marine cuisine is organic, my last batch of plants werent doing real well and I have them all 2 heaping tbs of this stuff and they went into overdrive vegging.This would probably be my easiest, best bet, except things get really hazy when it comes time to flip to 12/12. Their nutrient needs change so much...I have all the feeding charts, from what I can see they are designed to waste a LOT of product so u can buy more, and plus if used at their ppms (tried that!) it'll fry your plants.
You know what would be really nice, if people, in their grow journals, put exactly what they are feeding them.
This whole being zen and at one with your plant, I can't seem to tell wtf they need or what any of their weird or off leaves mean, sooo I can't fix a problem if I dont know what it is.
Now this rusty colored junk, today I noticed it on the bigger of the 2 stunted ice plants (they are over 4 weeks, and 1 is 3 and other is 4 inches :-()I'm unsure, should I toss them and make room for something that will actually grow?
On the brighter side, out of the 10 big bud seeds i planted, seems like 2 may be ok, one looks pretty good, actually...seemed to not respond like the others to the hot soil.
I told the seed co (marijuana-seeds.nl) that out of 20 seeds planted I have 2 plants, so they are going to resend the big bud and also the ice.(the rest never even popped, or id find empty seed hulls in the mix, but no plant! They still haven't sent the 10 thc snow seeds I originally ordered with the big order, they say they have been sent, we shall see.
I'm advertising for a room mate with grow exp. figuring there are a LOT of talented growers with no money to do so..since I have all the equip but keep mucking up the plants, figured we could start our own coop, were allowed to do that with another grower without actually getting all the licenses req for big coops or collectives.
Even if they aren't a MMJ patient I can list them as my caregiver, so they will avoid any trouble from being around it.
Found 1 gal that sounds promising, hopefully all will work out.
It snowed like 2 feet the past 2 days here, so I am officially snowed in :-(
no pics today as not much has changed...
anyone happen to know where I could find something like I described earlier...what ratios of NPK and the others they need at all diff stages?
I know several have said go by the ppm..but how do u know by that number, as it changes say in a hydro res, what the plants are actually using..it just shows they are using some of the dissolved salts, right?
I should have studied botany instead of nursing! :-)
The 5 that are germing now are just in perlite with a small amount of peat from those expandable peat pellets.
Have yellowing of the lowest leaves, pics have been posted, but the discolorations don't show up well on my cam, or I need to find a better setting for taking pics.
 

lime73

Weed Modifier
do you have any grow books? great info is found in most of them.

if not ...there is a link to grow video's in my signature if you like?
 

bkbbudz

New Member
yeah, have a box with like 3 g in receipts.
I reallly don't like a feeding system that takes 8 diff bottles of shit.


You know what would be really nice, if people, in their grow journals, put exactly what they are feeding them.

HMMM Then why buy 80 different bottles? <---exaggeration I hope.

Here is a pictorial of all of my last grows except my current MG project. But don't tell anyone please it is my secret! LOL!


perlite.jpgmaster_HDR380.jpgimages.jpgimagesCAQDAJM4.jpg
 

newwb

Active Member
LOL..thank you kindly :)..I have that set too, used the thrive alive when transplanting, and when "trying" to get clones to root.
I have watched all of the movies both you and lime have posted, as well as read Ed Rosenthals Growers handbook, Somas organic gardening book, as well as "the bible" I got on kindle from amazon, along with a few cheap ones that looked like copy/pastes of above mentioned books.
As I cannot work as of now this is what I do...read journals, grow info..etc.
Well originally my hydro guy told me he grows with the fox farms line, bragged it up a bunch, and after he gave me a 2 week old clone I saw how nice his plants were so I decided to try that, even though you don't really need the microbes and kangaroots (both have the same amounts of diff bacteria species, and both have under 1 of each NP&K..but I did have some root growth problems in the beginning from over watering, and this stuff did seem to help get them going strong and white again..and the 2 bottles you alternate like 1/4 tsp of one one week, the other the next, etc.
I have seen people that only use tiger bloom when starting to bud and grow big for vegging..the grow big is chemical, the big bloom is organic, which I prefer, but has such a scant amount of NPK it would take 1/2 cup or more as a stand alone fert.
I like the idea that organics wont fry your plants, well not as likely as with chem nutes.
My original idea when I was just obsessed with my ponding hobby, was to use the fish waste, I mean it has done wonders for my plants I planted around the perimeter of my pond, and my ground is very poor soil, but using the water from the pond to water them made them grow huge..aquaponics I guess it is called...but hey, if my 13 koi poop will feed them for free, then I would be in good shape, only I have no idea what it would have in it, amounts of NPK etc...
ahhh tooo much information out there LOL..
 

bkbbudz

New Member
LOL..thank you kindly :)..I have that set too, used the thrive alive when transplanting, and when "trying" to get clones to root.
I have watched all of the movies both you and lime have posted, as well as read Ed Rosenthals Growers handbook, Somas organic gardening book, as well as "the bible" I got on kindle from amazon, along with a few cheap ones that looked like copy/pastes of above mentioned books.
As I cannot work as of now this is what I do...read journals, grow info..etc.
Well originally my hydro guy told me he grows with the fox farms line, bragged it up a bunch, and after he gave me a 2 week old clone I saw how nice his plants were so I decided to try that, even though you don't really need the microbes and kangaroots (both have the same amounts of diff bacteria species, and both have under 1 of each NP&K..but I did have some root growth problems in the beginning from over watering, and this stuff did seem to help get them going strong and white again..and the 2 bottles you alternate like 1/4 tsp of one one week, the other the next, etc.
I have seen people that only use tiger bloom when starting to bud and grow big for vegging..the grow big is chemical, the big bloom is organic, which I prefer, but has such a scant amount of NPK it would take 1/2 cup or more as a stand alone fert.
I like the idea that organics wont fry your plants, well not as likely as with chem nutes.
My original idea when I was just obsessed with my ponding hobby, was to use the fish waste, I mean it has done wonders for my plants I planted around the perimeter of my pond, and my ground is very poor soil, but using the water from the pond to water them made them grow huge..aquaponics I guess it is called...but hey, if my 13 koi poop will feed them for free, then I would be in good shape, only I have no idea what it would have in it, amounts of NPK etc...
ahhh tooo much information out there LOL..
You must have been a very good nurse! So studious and enthusiastic. Let me ask you something...If a beautiful little girl went into an ER with a twisted ankle. Would you rush her to the orthapedic unit, call 6 doctors, start an IV, pump her up with morphine etc etc etc?

Or would you take a simple x-ray, wrap it up, prescribe a mild pain reliever and muscle relaxer and send her home with her mommy and daddy?
 

newwb

Active Member
nursing is different, we do what the docs tell us..but yes..in the 7 diff areas I specialized in, I was an AMAZING nurse!!!
Plants are sooo different, if it's having a deficiency, and you call it right (or someone helps u call it right) you're back on track, bada bing!
If you ignore it, much like health problems, it gets out of hand and can do a lot of damage.
So I just want to be able to recognize the early signs, correct them if in my power to do so, so no further damage is done to my ladies.
Uncle Ben was someone whom had posts that jumped out at me when I first got here..I have read a lot of his stuff..and I read a bit of everyones..
 
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