330 CDM for flowering?

MistaRasta said:

Must be nice living on the west coast, selling those systems out here in shops for nothing lower than 500$. Ridiculous.

Click to expand...

You can order from growers house or discount hydro or monster gardens for yhe same price. Plus shipping. Most do flat rate shipping. You can call them and try and get a better price. Growers house always has sales going on. I just bought a new carbon filter from growers house. I'm probably a 12 -15 hour drive from them.

There's a bunch of brands of 315 cmh now. Phantom, nanolux, Sun system,, green beams, endomaxx, a few others I can't think of right now.

jarvild said:

Yes, It's funny you can get cheap ballast for under a bill now.

Click to expand...

You can get a mag thouie for less than $80 online. The power bill will cost you every month, though.

hyroot said:

You can order from growers house or discount hydro or monster gardens for yhe same price. Plus shipping. Most do flat rate shipping. You can call them and try and get a better price. Growers house always has sales going on. I just bought a new carbon filter from growers house. I'm probably a 12 -15 hour drive from them.

There's a bunch of brands of 315 cmh now. Phantom, nanolux, Sun system,, green beams, endomaxx, a few others I can't think of right now.

Click to expand...

True re. getting stuff via the mail.

BEWARE of cheap knockoff ballasts because there are reports that some aren't the proper square wave and won't deliver the expected performance.

ttystikk said:

True re. getting stuff via the mail.

BEWARE of cheap knockoff ballasts because there are reports that some aren't the proper square wave and won't deliver the expected performance.

Click to expand...

The ones I named are legit. The phantom I saw in action at the inda gro shop before getting it. It's owned be hydrofarm. Nanolux , discount hydro has them on display running at all their locations. Nanolux is its own company. Sun system is the lec we've all seen on here for the past couple years. Build a soil carries the endomaxx and Jeremy Silva and few others have documented it on the pfa group on fb. Green beams has been around for a few years. @tenthirty was rocking them on here a while ago with good results.

Growers house and other shops carry them all

@ttystikk at $0.08 a kilowatt I don't worry about electrical cost.

jarvild said:

@ttystikk at $0.08 a kilowatt I don't worry about electrical cost.

Click to expand...

Do you care if the lamp is only giving you 2/3 of the light you were promised?

Nothing wrong with Mag ballast, all I grew with for 30 years. Not debating their inefficiencies but they're proven to work. I still use a few for my MH. I will say that my 330 is my preferred veg'ing lite but not for flowering.

ttystikk said:

Yep, and the lamp has a standard mogul base so it will screw into any fixture. I wired mine to a bare bulb vertical socket cordset;
View attachment 3649215

Click to expand...

I love your photos and the way you setup the garden, great job of maximizing the space and light you have! Do you grow for a living or is it a hobby that you do on a grand scale?

ttystikk said:

True re. getting stuff via the mail.

BEWARE of cheap knockoff ballasts because there are reports that some aren't the proper square wave and won't deliver the expected performance.

Click to expand...

Makes me wonder if hydrobuilder is selling those, tempted to open up the unit and check.

DesertGrow89 said:

I love your photos and the way you setup the garden, great job of maximizing the space and light you have! Do you grow for a living or is it a hobby that you do on a grand scale?

Click to expand...

Thank you! This is a bit of both; it's a hobby for the fun and a job because I believe there HAS to be a better and more efficient way to grow food and medicine indoors than the way is been done up until now!

Magnetics are great ballasts. I still have some I use as spares--says much as their reliability and durability approaches 100%.
Had only need to replace less than 50 capacitors in 20 years in HUNDREDS of lights.

Another great advantage to magnetics is their inexpensive initial cost upfront. You can get one on craigslist for under $50--pretty damn cheap. Or a bunch of used ones.
Once you are profitable after your first few harvests, you can swap for more efficient gear.
You'll operate less light fixtures, use less electricity, and still get more higher quality light.

DesertGrow89 said:

People report the 315 puts out a yield roughly the equivalent of a 450w hps.
Just don't order one from hydro builder I just ordered a second fixture from them and it came with a defective bulb. They sent a replacement bulb which never showed up at my door and they said it was lost or stolen and basically accused me of stealing their bulb, which is bullshit. They finally sent a second bulb, also defective. And their communication was terrible. A bit off topic but yeah..

Click to expand...

i would disagree about comparing the 315w lec to 450w of hps. i would say it is closer to 500 or 550.
My 315 grow is killing my friends 400w hps grow running the same genetics. i just switched from 1 1000w hps
hitting .5 a watt to LEC hitting around 1.2 per watt.

i used to grow with a 400w hps many years ago and never got buds as large and a dense as i do under the lec. (Im a much better grower now)

bob223 said:

i would disagree about comparing the 315w lec to 450w of hps. i would say it is closer to 500 or 550.
My 315 grow is killing my friends 400w hps grow running the same genetics. i just switched from 1 1000w hps
hitting .5 a watt to LEC hitting around 1.2 per watt.

i used to grow with a 400w hps many years ago and never got buds as large and a dense as i do under the lec. (Im a much better grower now)

Click to expand...

In terms of radiance, the 315w produces the equivalent of a 380w HPS (PPF/PAR Output) so its actually not even close to a 450w HPS -- HOWEVER -- the percentage of light usable by the plant (because of the fuller spectrum) makes them far more effective. So a larger portion of the light produced by the cmh is actually used in plant growth (too much yellow and green in an HPS). So in terms of yield, you're approaching closer to a 600w HPS in effectiveness. So yea your estimation of 500w-550w "worth" of HPS is about right!

In fact some commercial facilities are installing them with the same spacing and distance from canopy as if they were 600w.... reporting great yields. Particularly with the 3K. Though visually the CRI on the 4K is incredible at 98%.

They are mean 315w lamps! Soon they will be over twice their power..... coming right up...

NanoZeus said:

In terms of radiance, the 315w produces the equivalent of a 380w HPS (PPF/PAR Output) so its actually not even close to a 450w HPS -- HOWEVER -- the percentage of light usable by the plant (because of the fuller spectrum) makes them far more effective. So a larger portion of the light produced by the cmh is actually used in plant growth (too much yellow and green in an HPS). So in terms of yield, you're approaching closer to a 600w HPS in effectiveness. So yea your estimation of 500w-550w "worth" of HPS is about right!

In fact some commercial facilities are installing them with the same spacing and distance from canopy as if they were 600w.... reporting great yields. Particularly with the 3K. Though visually the CRI on the 4K is incredible at 98%.

They are mean 315w lamps! Soon they will be over twice their power..... coming right up...

Click to expand...

That makes absolutely no sense. How is 315 have lower part but the plants use more light than the hps. Photons are photons.

I don't know where you got your numbers but a 315 actually produces a higher par rating that a 400w hps.

Photons are not photons.

Their energies states are different (thus the difference in their color) and their effect on morphology (flowering specifically) is dramatically different.

http://www.lightsym16.com/ <-----------The worlds best horticultural light scientist will be meeting next week in the USA.

Try growing with a green-looking 400w MH lamp versus say..... a low pressure sodium 400w light (red-looking). You'll see the massive difference. Even though you are still consuming 400w and using the exact same lamp (just different gas composition in the arc). It's actually quite exciting.

A lower percentage of the HPS 400w "par output" is actually usable by plants... while a higher percentage of the lower wattage CMH PAR is actually usable by plants..... makes complete sense to me. It's the same advantage a well designed LED will have over say traditional HID watt-per-watt.

As for the numbers of my radiance statement between a 400w HPS and 315CMH,
You can compare output here in the spec sheets (35500lm versus 48000lm):

http://download.p4c.philips.com/lfb/f/fp-928487300094/fp-928487300094_pss_en_aa_001.pdf
http://www.lighting.philips.com/main/prof/lamps/high-intensity-discharge-lamps/ceramic-metal-halide/mastercolor-cdm-t-elite-med-wattage/928601164831_EU/product

I know it sounds confusing, but it really isn't. To make matters worse, there are "efficiencies" ratios that are misleading to growers: like lm/w or PAR/watts. They don't really tell you the lamps effectiveness in growing but rather electrical efficiency. Yes the 315w is in fact slightly less efficient than a 400w HPS in terms of lm/w but that electrical efficiency is only in the lamp--- the 315w ballast stays much cooler as is much more efficient as a driver that a traditional HPS ballast-- electronic or magnetic.

It's all a bit tricky. One can't go by ONE metric and then make a generalizations in evaluations or comparisons.

Cheers

hyroot said:

You can order from growers house or discount hydro or monster gardens for yhe same price. Plus shipping. Most do flat rate shipping. You can call them and try and get a better price. Growers house always has sales going on. I just bought a new carbon filter from growers house. I'm probably a 12 -15 hour drive from them.

There's a bunch of brands of 315 cmh now. Phantom, nanolux, Sun system,, green beams, endomaxx, a few others I can't think of right now.

Click to expand...

Just so you guys know Nanolux is a cheap Chinese knock off company. Strait off the ships.....

Chillin chillin said:

Just so you guys know Nanolux is a cheap Chinese knock off company. Strait off the ships.....

Click to expand...

Does the plant "see" the same quality of light as brands made elsewhere ?

Lots of interesting information in this thread, thanks to all providing it.

Grobal distributors published a comparative study of 1000 watt HPS to 315. They stated that the flower time was reduced and heat was reduced.

I can understand why the heat might be lower, but can anybody verify or explain why the flowering time was claimed to have been reduced when using 315 cmh setup vs 1000 HPS ?


http://grobaldistributors.com/retrofit.php

Thought others might be interested in the link below. Disclaimer - I have no experience with it, but it looks like a cheaper way to retrofit from HPS to 315 cmh etc. Wonder what others think?


http://growershouse.com/ceramic-science-315w-cmh-light-conversion-kit

NanoZeus said:

Magnetics are great ballasts. I still have some I use as spares--says much as their reliability and durability approaches 100%.
Had only need to replace less than 50 capacitors in 20 years in HUNDREDS of lights.

Another great advantage to magnetics is their inexpensive initial cost upfront. You can get one on craigslist for under $50--pretty damn cheap. Or a bunch of used ones.
Once you are profitable after your first few harvests, you can swap for more efficient gear.
You'll operate less light fixtures, use less electricity, and still get more higher quality light.

Click to expand...

Not true. The inefficiency of magnetic ballasts forces the grower to use more lights than other, more efficient options in order to reach the same light levels.