A hundred years of progress washed away in a week.

Harvest76

Well-Known Member
Donald has to get popo and military support.
Hes been criticized by 4 military leaders in the last 2 days, two of which resigned and all 4 worked for him. I'm not betting on it. This kind of public dissent is unheard of, especially in the high ranks. The average cop and military person have far a more accurate moral compass and understanding of the constitution than little donnie two-scoops. He's fucked.
 

DIY-HP-LED

Well-Known Member
Donald has to get popo and military support.
The GOP senate is scared shitless and silent, the military and ex military, their proxies, have spoken out, loudly, in public and to the troops. Donald's time is short and military careres of senior officers are long, if any took Donald's side in this political fight their career would be terminated immediately. Joe would skin them alive as would the new congress, as would their profession and peers.
 
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Fogdog

Well-Known Member
Hes been criticized by 4 military leaders in the last 2 days, two of which resigned and all 4 worked for him. I'm not betting on it. This kind of public dissent is unheard of, especially in the high ranks. The average cop and military person have far a more accurate moral compass and understanding of the constitution than little donnie two-scoops. He's fucked.
I don't know about "the average cop". If you have any insights, please share. My impression of the pigs in Portland are that they support fascism.

But Trump has most certainly fucked up any hope of military support. FBI can't be much of a fan either.
 

Fogdog

Well-Known Member
Yes, if you militarize the police, put them above the law, and unaccountable then you could safely say shit happens. That's obvious enough to everyone. What may not be so obvious is that police are paid by us to protect us and serve us. They are fully funded and equipped with high-tech military grade weaponry to be able to harm us. That is their job. Subdue. Control. Inflict harm. Dominate. They do not protect and serve us (read black, brown, yellow, red and impoverished people.)
at do
The social system that we have now exists only protect wealthy white people. It is meant to prevent any dissention from the lower economic classes and to keep them impoverished to where they are neutralized as a threat to the system. The Police are not here to protect us. Specifically they are here to protect the priviledged white people with property and power in this country. The solution is to put the wealth of the nation to work for a positive and sustainable life for everyone. Not by having a nation of a select few who use their wealth and power to extract every last possible bit of profit and every last drop of resources to further accumulate wealth. When we put people to work building shit that the country needs, like environmentally friendly power sources, rebuilding infrastructure, electric cars, solar panels, greenhouse robots... ? Who knows? There should be a decent job for everybody that wants one. And it should pay decently too. All of a sudden the U.S. is able to send out billions in stimulus checks but before the Pandemic the country was teetering on bankrupcy if all those student loans weren't paid back with interest. The point is that it can be done. It is not communism. People would be rewarded for their work, and if they choose not to work they would not earn the same rewards as those who do. Most people, when they are healthy and well fed, want to do something meaningful. People naturally want to work and contribute, especially when their work is valued and they are recognized as a valuable part of society.

If Health, Education, Vocational Training and Housing and Medicine become priorities as they should be, there will not be a need for a heavy handed police force everywhere. If people are working together, building things in their communities where they all have a stake in the matter, they already have a built-in self interest in making sure everyone benefits and no one is left out. The policing force in its first act of reform at the very least, should require a certificate with a limited time of duty and mandatory reviews like any other professional position. If the problem is just a few bad cops as they all say, then it should be easy enough to spot these people and revoke their certificate. If people are well fed, very rarely do they steal for food. If they are well educated, housed, and employed you have eliminated most of the problems from which crime stems from in the first place.
But what do I know? I'm just a Dynavap, flower-vaping, old-school hippie. And really disappointed by all the young people of my generation who I thought were cool growing up, and would make the world a better place. Instead they turned out to be bigger assholes than the generation they replaced.
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I don't think it's just a few bad cops, I think suppressing people of color and the poor has been their mission from the beginning of the "Professional Police Force". The few good cops know they must look the other way or quit the force. It's well known that a cop who "snitches on a brother" can't expect back-up while on patrol no matter how dire his situation gets.

I like the idea put out by some activists. Instead of funding education and training that hasn't worked before, remove funding from police. Cut police staff and put that money into public safety programs that have been shown to work. End the war on drugs, release any nonviolent drug offenders and stop charging people for so-called crimes of vice. Expunge their records. That would free up plenty of money to fund things such as programs to support at-risk kids.
 

Harvest76

Well-Known Member
I don't know about "the average cop". If you have any insights, please share.
Just my feeling. People in general have a moral compass, I believe, and that goes for folks in the LE and military professions too. No reason to think they are a different type of human than the rest of us. The clown president stands in stark relief to that way of life though. I dont believe he has ever looked as anything from a moralistic perspective, only transactional.
 

DIY-HP-LED

Well-Known Member
Just my feeling. People in general have a moral compass, I believe, and that goes for folks in the LE and military professions too. No reason to think they are a different type of human than the rest of us. The clown president stands in stark relief to that way of life though. I dont believe he has ever looked as anything from a moralistic perspective, only transactional.
Most people are normal, Donald is not, he has brain parts missing in action. Normal people can have their perspectives warped by strong emotions brought about by deeply conditioned "feelings" basic emotions if you will, that are both instinctive and conditioned by life experience including our social experience, hence the silent racists of today vs the more vocal ones of the past. People who have poor emotional control, who have been heavily conditioned to racism are a problem, besides being a normal pain in the ass, they also get stupid and support an idiot like Trump. What do they think Donald gonna do, make the brown folks, "go away"? Millions of white people, who would wipe something like Donald off their shoes in their personal lives, think the sun shines outta Donald's asshole and he is a stable genius, racism makes people stupid, what more proof is required?
 
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Fogdog

Well-Known Member
Just my feeling. People in general have a moral compass, I believe, and that goes for folks in the LE and military professions too. No reason to think they are a different type of human than the rest of us. The clown president stands in stark relief to that way of life though. I dont believe he has ever looked as anything from a moralistic perspective, only transactional.
I've been at too many counter-protests, I guess. Fascists have been targeting Portland Oregon to fly in for fascist rallies during the past years and I've been showing up to lend support to show Proud Boys, Patriots Prayer and the various right wing fascists groups that participate, they aren't welcome in Portland. These guys look like the goons who occupied the Michigan State Capitol building. Probably many actually are. Anyway, just as with the anti-lockdown protests in Michigan, where cops are perfectly comfortable letting them shout in their faces, break into the Michigan state house WHILE LEGISLATORS WERE IN SESSION, carrying guns, clubs, wearing armor, shields. In Portland, they come to fight. They wear armor and carry weapons. We carry milkshakes, we have a band, there is a contingent of elderly in wheelchairs and clowns in the crowd. The cops form a cordon to keep us separate and face US with their backs to them. About the only limit they put on the fascists is the time the fascists tried to set up a sniper nest in the upper floor of a parking garage. The cops broke that up but let them keep their guns.

When the fascists do manage to evade police cordons (gee, I wonder how that happened?), they engage the brave antifa in the front who are skinny young men and women in fashionable black clothes. The fascists generally show prepared to fight and our antifa don't seem to be all that good at fighting. But the cops move in and crack OUR heads when the protest is declared illegal.

We are the people of Portland and surrounding areas. They, for the most part don't even live in this state. Yet the cops see US as the threat. So, that moral compass doesn't seem to be working if you think it points anywhere near the center or leftward. Not from what I've seen in Portland.

The film I've seen from last weekend, to me, showed the cops in other cities are more like ours than Andy of Mayberry. In Buffalo, NY, they even quit their roles as riot police when their "brothers" were disciplined for blowing down an old man for no good reason and putting him in the hospital. So, I think maybe we might have to agree to disagree on this one.

I do recall a dive-trip on a live-aboard dive boat that I went on. It included a contingent of Douglas County OR officers. The boat was large but fully booked, the quarters were close and there was nearly continuous interactions. They were plenty of fun to be around but, from their sense of humor, the way they talk of the people in their county and the casual attitude they had about the violence described in their stories, they aren't like you and me.
 
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Harvest76

Well-Known Member
I've been at too many counter-protests, I guess. Fascists have been targeting Portland Oregon to fly in for fascist rallies during the past years and I've been showing up to lend support to show Proud Boys, Patriots Prayer and the various right wing fascists groups that participate, they aren't welcome in Portland. These guys look like the goons who occupied the Michigan State Capitol building. Probably many actually are. Anyway, just as with the anti-lockdown protests in Michigan, where cops are perfectly comfortable letting them shout in their faces, break into the Michigan state house WHILE LEGISLATORS WERE IN SESSION, carrying guns, clubs, wearing armor, shields. In Portland, they come to fight. They wear armor and carry weapons. We carry milkshakes, we have a band, there is a contingent of elderly in wheelchairs and clowns in the crowd. The cops form a cordon to keep us separate and face US with their backs to them. About the only limit they put on the fascists is the time the fascists tried to set up a sniper nest in the upper floor of a parking garage. The cops broke that up but let them keep their guns.

When the fascists do manage to evade police cordons (gee, I wonder how that happened?), they engage the brave antifa in the front who are skinny young men and women in fashionable black clothes. The fascists generally show prepared to fight and our antifa don't seem to be all that good at fighting. But the cops move in and crack OUR heads when the protest is declared illegal.

We are the people of Portland and surrounding areas. They, for the most part don't even live in this state. Yet the cops see US as the threat. So, that moral compass doesn't seem to be working if you think it points anywhere near the center or leftward. Not from what I've seen in Portland.

The film I've seen from last weekend, to me, showed the cops in other cities are more like ours than Andy of Mayberry. In Buffalo, NY, they even quit their roles as riot police when their "brothers" were disciplined for blowing down an old man for no good reason and putting him in the hospital. So, I think maybe we might have to agree to disagree on this one.

I do recall a dive-trip on a live-aboard dive boat that I went on. It included a contingent of Douglas County OR officers. The boat was large but fully booked, the quarters were close and there was nearly continuous interactions. They were plenty of fun to be around but, from their sense of humor, the way they talk of the people in their county and the casual attitude they had about the violence described in their stories, they aren't like you and me.
I've been to my fair share of protests and counter-protests. I agree with everything you're saying. I know what happens there, and it's not pretty, nor in line with our constitution. It would be hard to believe if I haven't seen it with my own eyes. That said, I still like to believe that most still have a moral compass. Just as a few looters is not representative of a protest, a few asshole cops are not the whole force. But you're right, the code of silence has to stop. The way we do that is keep fighting for charges and convictions not just against the cops who swing the baton or fire the gun or apply the knee, but to those who dont say stop.
 

DIY-HP-LED

Well-Known Member
I've been to my fair share of protests and counter-protests. I agree with everything you're saying. I know what happens there, and it's not pretty, nor in line with our constitution. It would be hard to believe if I haven't seen it with my own eyes. That said, I still like to believe that most still have a moral compass. Just as a few looters is not representative of a protest, a few asshole cops are not the whole force. But you're right, the code of silence has to stop. The way we do that is keep fighting for charges and convictions not just against the cops who swing the baton or fire the gun or apply the knee, but to those who dont say stop.
The point of the metaphor about a few bad apples, is that it spoils the whole bunch, in organisations with cultures like the police.
 

Rob Roy

Well-Known Member
I'm a peaceful man. I have a distaste for oppression, uneven fights, and violence born of inequality. You are welcome to be a loud-mouthed jerk, but I harbor no Ill will toward you. You might just be having a bad day.
I like your sentiment about being a peaceful man. Thanks.

If you're political though, as in advocating for the system,
you can't really be peaceful in the actual meaning of the word though. Not even trolling you on that either. Convince me otherwise.
 

Rob Roy

Well-Known Member
Awesome. I had George Soros on my Batshit crazy things people say on the internet Bingo card. I just need fake moon landing and sandy hook never happened for the win.
I'm way ahead, I just need the virus is real and gun control laws protect people to complete my bat shit crazy liberal bingo card.
 

DIY-HP-LED

Well-Known Member
You're right, and I'm probably wrong, but I'm trying to practice more positive thinking.;):peace:
I'll be quite frank about it, 60+% of white males in America support Trump, in spite of it all, there is only one reason and one reason only to support Trump at this point in time, you are driven nearly insane with racism, fear and hate. If you are a cop who supports Trump at this point in time after all the crime and lies, then you are a worse racist than most people. It's political, but so is racism in America, all the racists support Trump and that is the only reason they support him and the GOP, the fact that a lot of cops do, say 50% for the sake of argument, says a lot about the motivations of many during the recent protests. They support white privilege and the oppression of blacks, it's what they've always done, it's the only thing they know how to do, it's pathetic.
 

Craigson

Well-Known Member
Half you people are POS.

Its not even about coos killing a guy. Its about systems designed to teach hate and white supremecy.

Do yourselves a favour and get some education on the subject.

 

DIY-HP-LED

Well-Known Member
Half you people are POS.

Its not even about coos killing a guy. Its about systems designed to teach hate and white supremecy.

Do yourselves a favour and get some education on the subject.

You are an anti social moron who appears to be socially and emotionally retarded, great way to break into a thread. What ever happened to "Hey guys, look at this"? Which half are POS, besides yourself that is?
 

Fogdog

Well-Known Member
I've been to my fair share of protests and counter-protests. I agree with everything you're saying. I know what happens there, and it's not pretty, nor in line with our constitution. It would be hard to believe if I haven't seen it with my own eyes. That said, I still like to believe that most still have a moral compass. Just as a few looters is not representative of a protest, a few asshole cops are not the whole force. But you're right, the code of silence has to stop. The way we do that is keep fighting for charges and convictions not just against the cops who swing the baton or fire the gun or apply the knee, but to those who dont say stop.
Sure, give them the benefit of the doubt but it should be up to them to prove they have changed. There has been zero progress on this issue for fifty years. Training, education, policies are all driven in a tops down manner and nothing changed.

If you are right and the number of hard core racists on the force reflect the same as the general population, which is about 20%. So what? How would a black man who is being pulled over by a white cop know? In order to survive, he has to assume they are potentially violently racist. Black people go through every single day with a threat like that hanging over their head. So, so what if most cops have a moral compass that opposes racism? They don't do anything to stop it. Black people keep dying. Black people get pulled over way more often than do white people. They worry about their sons making it home alive every day. So, pardon me if I'm unfair to the cops who aren't racist but tolerate it. They are part of the problem.
 

Harvest76

Well-Known Member
I'll be quite frank about it, 60+% of white males in America support Trump, in spite of it all, there is only one reason and one reason only to support Trump at this point in time, you are driven nearly insane with racism, fear and hate. If you are a cop who supports Trump at this point in time after all the crime and lies, then you are a worse racist than most people. It's political, but so is racism in America, all the racists support Trump and that is the only reason they support him and the GOP, the fact that a lot of cops do, say 50% for the sake of argument, says a lot about the motivations of many during the recent protests. They support white privilege and the oppression of blacks, it's what they've always done, it's the only thing they know how to do, it's pathetic.
I hate to admit you're right.
 
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