Advanced nutrients, ph question.

Tangerine_

Tangerine_

Well-Known Member
Fahn2k said:
Well I can't argue with anything you've said, and you did say it works. I figure that when choosing a nutrient you buy at a price point your comfortable with first. Consider ease of use second, then check reviews. Then you listen to experienced people and go from there. I think for me the marketing hype did play a role. Ph perfect, gorillas, spiders, fish skeletons and snakes, yeah that's pretty cool I'll try it.

So with all that said, what is what you would call a very good nutrient line? I'll be using Autopots on my future grows. One with a five gallon reservoir and one set with a 12 gallon reservoir. I'll have airports in each autopot and a waterpump in each reservoir. I don't want to have to measure ph everyday. I also don't want to mix different nutes from different companies.
Click to expand...
Any complete base nutrients will work. AN bases are fine if that's what you already have and they have similar ratios as others on the market but most of their supplements are redundant. The thing to keep in mind when using additional supplements - there's really only a few that can benefit a grower and none of them are game changers.

If you feel like you'd benefit from an inoculation of bennies, Photo Plus has a good spore count, just be mindful of the expiration date.



- Fulvic and Humics - aid in nutrient uptake and overall health (Ful-Power is the best one I've found)
- Amino acids - assist in Ca uptake and help fight salt build up.
- Ascophyllum Nodosum (good kelp) provides lots of aminos, sugars, vitamins, and cytokines. (good for stressed plants)
- Chitosan - induces SAR
- Salicylic acid - (Phytohormones) aid in uptake and bioavailability of silica. Also aids in pest and pathogen resistance

Learn to use your base nutes and maybe slowly experiment with others. If you can dial those in, you'll be golden
 
Fahn2k

Fahn2k

Well-Known Member
No disrespect, but I like most people want one stop shop. I want to walk into an isle and see everything I need in one area. Nutrient lines give you this. All of Advanced or GH or Humboldt Secrets are grouped together. It makes it easy and hassle free to buy all the base and supplements that are designed to work together in one spot. That's why I asked about a complete nutritional line. You didn't answer that question. You can name any part of the periodic table, but if I have to go to more than one store to get it then forget it. It's easy to cite one study about a few items in a product range. Yes it may be true but it's not the full story. Have you ever used Advanced? What specifically was bad about it? How much experience did you have when you used it? The answers to those last questions carry more weight than any study.
 
Wastei

Wastei

Well-Known Member
Fahn2k said:
No disrespect, but I like most people want one stop shop. I want to walk into an isle and see everything I need in one area. Nutrient lines give you this. All of Advanced or GH or Humboldt Secrets are grouped together. It makes it easy and hassle free to buy all the base and supplements that are designed to work together in one spot. That's why I asked about a complete nutritional line. You didn't answer that question. You can name any part of the periodic table, but if I have to go to more than one store to get it then forget it. It's easy to cite one study about a few items in a product range. Yes it may be true but it's not the full story. Have you ever used Advanced? What specifically was bad about it? How much experience did you have when you used it? The answers to those last questions carry more weight than any study.
Click to expand...
You seem to just be a consumer without your own understanding about plant nutrition? Hydro stores doesn't educate anybody about plant nutrition and proper hydro practices.

It's a place where you get fed Bro science with the intention of making you stupid and as a result emptying your wallet. AN pays hefty fines every year because of false advertisement and products. Still people are happy to pay for colored water (AN's supplements like bennies).

We've had complete mineral based plant foods for well over 100 years but still people think you have to reinvent the wheel. We already know through science what's needed in terms of nutrient ratios, the rest is subjectical.

Traditional A + B base has existed forever. Buying Calcium nitrate, MKP and micros should not break the bank. In something like Calcium nitrate + Jacks 5-12-26 you get everything, a complete plant food.

The nutrient manufacturers all use the same stuff in terms of mineral salts. Do you think farmers and full scale operations buy nutrient in bottles with pinups and dinosaurs? They don't.

Make up your own mind!
 
Last edited:
R

Rookiefarmer1

Member
budman111 said:
You're new at this aren't you or you're name is Mike ;-) They are one of the most hated company around lol
Click to expand...
Well, as tangerine said here, delving into that subject would be akin to dropping blood in a shark tank. So many different opinions out here on the subject of growing. One man says do it, another man says don't, one man says it's right, one man says its not right. The opinions are like night and day,
That's why I asked my fellow successful grow friends what they use, iv smoked their bud for years and it never disappoints, that's how I made my decision on nutes. I wasn't going to make that decision based on what I was reading online because as I said, so many different opinions out here, how the fuck are you supposed to know who's right?
I'm not with you on the Mike thing either? Maybe it's because I'm new, you'll have to elaborate.
I'm more of a Michelle than I Mike tbh
 
Fahn2k

Fahn2k

Well-Known Member
Wastei said:
You seem to just be a consumer without your own understanding about plant nutrition? Hydro stores doesn't educate anybody about plant nutrition and proper hydro practices.

It's a place where you get fed Bro science with the intention of making you stupid and as a result emptying your wallet. AN pays hefty fines every year because of false advertisement and products. Still people are happy to pay for colored water (AN's supplements like bennies).

We've had complete mineral based plant foods for well over 100 years but still people think you have to reinvent the wheel. We already know through science what's needed in terms of nutrient ratios, the rest is subjectical.

Traditional A + B base has existed forever. Buying Calcium nitrate, MKP and micros should not break the bank. In something like Calcium nitrate + Jacks 5-12-26 you get everything, a complete plant food.

The nutrient manufacturers all use the same stuff in terms of mineral salts. Do you think farmers and full scale operations buy nutrient in bottles with pinups and dinosaurs? They don't.

Make up your own mind!
Click to expand...
No disrespect, but how much do I need to understand if I want simple and convenient? I'm not at the Hydro store, I'm on the marijuana forum. I asked simple and intelligent questions. 1. What line of nutes would you recommend ( I explained why I wanted to stick with a line up). 2. Have you used Advanced. 3. What specifically was the problem you had with it. 4. How long had you been growing when you used Advanced. If I was at the hydro store at least the salesman would lie to me! None of the all knowing engineers and scientist on this forum have answered any of the questions. So I'll ask you to answer those same questions before you assume I'm some idiot because I don't have a PHD in floriculture. I didn't get my nute recommendation from the hydro store, I got it from a person who has used Advanced happily for over 10 years. Mind you this person is the only person I went to for smoke since 2008. I liked his erb, taste, look, quality, so why not use what he used?

My point is Just because you may not like or agree with a product is not enough for you to dog it and lead other people away. If you never used it, don't comment. If you have used it tell people what actually happened with it. If you where new to the brand tell that too. I used Clonex when I first started out, It plain did not work for me. When I took cuttings and put them in a simple glass of water they rooted. I was too inexperienced to know what i did wrong or didnt do right, but because I was so inexperienced I don't feel I have the right tell people that Clonex is BS. Savvy marketing got my attention too, but PH perfect technology and an experienced grower made the sale. In order for the PH perfect tech to work you need to use products designed to work together which is why I try not to mix other brands. That's convenient for my style of growing. It doesnt mean I'm not willing to try something else. It doesnt mean I don't believe someone who has used the product. What I don't believe is someone who's to cheap to pay the cost to be the boss. I'm old enough to remember back in the day when I wanted something we had to make or emagine it. I'm in a better place in life now, so give me a finished product. I ain't mixing shit all willie nilly in the shed. Lol!

You don't have to answer all of the questions, just answer this: Name a nutrient line that you feel is better and tell me why? People say Canna is the best, they say GH is cheaper, They say Jacks does the trick and Foxfarm is too hot. I have tasted and felt the end product of Advanced. I havent used a PH pen or EC meter in since last april, and I'm more than a happy with my crop. To put it short, I got my money's worth. So don't avoid the question or spew hate, just answer the question.
 
Wastei

Wastei

Well-Known Member
Fahn2k said:
No disrespect, but how much do I need to understand if I want simple and convenient? I'm not at the Hydro store, I'm on the marijuana forum. I asked simple and intelligent questions. 1. What line of nutes would you recommend ( I explained why I wanted to stick with a line up). 2. Have you used Advanced. 3. What specifically was the problem you had with it. 4. How long had you been growing when you used Advanced. If I was at the hydro store at least the salesman would lie to me! None of the all knowing engineers and scientist on this forum have answered any of the questions. So I'll ask you to answer those same questions before you assume I'm some idiot because I don't have a PHD in floriculture. I didn't get my nute recommendation from the hydro store, I got it from a person who has used Advanced happily for over 10 years. Mind you this person is the only person I went to for smoke since 2008. I liked his erb, taste, look, quality, so why not use what he used?

My point is Just because you may not like or agree with a product is not enough for you to dog it and lead other people away. If you never used it, don't comment. If you have used it tell people what actually happened with it. If you where new to the brand tell that too. I used Clonex when I first started out, It plain did not work for me. When I took cuttings and put them in a simple glass of water they rooted. I was too inexperienced to know what i did wrong or didnt do right, but because I was so inexperienced I don't feel I have the right tell people that Clonex is BS. Savvy marketing got my attention too, but PH perfect technology and an experienced grower made the sale. In order for the PH perfect tech to work you need to use products designed to work together which is why I try not to mix other brands. That's convenient for my style of growing. It doesnt mean I'm not willing to try something else. It doesnt mean I don't believe someone who has used the product. What I don't believe is someone who's to cheap to pay the cost to be the boss. I'm old enough to remember back in the day when I wanted something we had to make or emagine it. I'm in a better place in life now, so give me a finished product. I ain't mixing shit all willie nilly in the shed. Lol!

You don't have to answer all of the questions, just answer this: Name a nutrient line that you feel is better and tell me why? People say Canna is the best, they say GH is cheaper, They say Jacks does the trick and Foxfarm is too hot. I have tasted and felt the end product of Advanced. I havent used a PH pen or EC meter in since last april, and I'm more than a happy with my crop. To put it short, I got my money's worth. So don't avoid the question or spew hate, just answer the question.
Click to expand...
Well most other manufacturers other than AN don't work to promote false claims and advertisements. Some of their products have been proven to contain ZERO of listed active ingredients.

So I guess Canna, Dyna Gro, GH, Hesi, Jacks , Remo, Floraflex to list a few better options than AN.

Do you go down memory lane everytime you look at the monsters, dinosaurs or pinups on AN's bottles? I get it most people are blind consumers and they're totally free to be just that.
 
Billy the Mountain

Billy the Mountain

Well-Known Member
You don't need a lineup of products to grow a healthy plant, simply a decent fertilizer.
A one part like Maxi Gro/Bloom or FloraNova Gro/Bloom is all any competent grower needs.
Jack's is also a simple, proven, and economical choice.
If I was forced to use an AN product it would be their version of GH Flora 3part, no other snake oil required.
 
Tangerine_

Tangerine_

Well-Known Member
The question has been answered...repeatedly. ANY complete base nutes will work.

Learning the importance of CEC will take a grower much farther than false claims and ridiculous marketing and/or grandstanding about "high value crops".
"Simple to follow feed charts", especially those that qualify growers as "hobbyist" or "master grower" are designed to sell redundant products to the exploitable. Its marketing. Plain and simple.

There's been factual knowledge presented. Not anecdotal or bro science...factual answers. What a grower chooses to do with that information is on them.
 
Fahn2k

Fahn2k

Well-Known Member
Wastei said:
Well most other manufacturers other than AN don't work to promote false claims and advertisements. Some of their products have been proven to contain ZERO of listed active ingredients.

So I guess Canna, Dyna Gro, GH, Hesi, Jacks , Remo, Floraflex to list a few better options than AN.

Do you go down memory lane everytime you look at the monsters, dinosaurs or pinups on AN's bottles? I get it most people are blind consumers and they're totally free to be just that.
Click to expand...
You named a few products yes and all are worthy of me trying out. Choosing AN to start out wasnt a blind choice though. It was recommended by a trusted, experienced grower, It eliminated a variable (PH) that I'm too lazy to want to check everyday. The cool graphics were a bonus, because I grow in my man cave, I have a lot of curious and interesting objects in there. So the graphics fit, they arent supposed to make sense just add to the ambience of the room.
 
Fahn2k

Fahn2k

Well-Known Member
Billy the Mountain said:
You don't need a lineup of products to grow a healthy plant, simply a decent fertilizer.
A one part like Maxi Gro/Bloom or FloraNova Gro/Bloom is all any competent grower needs.
Jack's is also a simple, proven, and economical choice.
If I was forced to use an AN product it would be their version of GH Flora 3part, no other snake oil required.
Click to expand...
I know and your right, but I don't need a turbo on my cars engine. I want one. I don't need to tint my car windows, I want to. I certianly didn't need a 10,800 watt rms stereo system in my my car, it came with a working stereo! I wanted.
 
Fahn2k

Fahn2k

Well-Known Member
Tangerine_ said:
The question has been answered...repeatedly. ANY complete base nutes will work.

Learning the importance of CEC will take a grower much farther than false claims and ridiculous marketing and/or grandstanding about "high value crops".
"Simple to follow feed charts", especially those that qualify growers as "hobbyist" or "master grower" are designed to sell redundant products to the exploitable. Its marketing. Plain and simple.

There's been factual knowledge presented. Not anecdotal or bro science...factual answers. What a grower chooses to do with that information is on them.
Click to expand...
Like I said you still didn't answer the question which was specific to you. What would you recommend? Have you used advanced? What problems did it cause for you? You said the answer was to use any base nutrients, I use Micro, Grow and Bloom. I added Overdrive and Flawless finish, plants turned out great. However I felt like the weight of the buds made the plants saggy. So I decided to pick up the Turantula, Piranha and Voodoo Juice to help boost root structure and stems. I had to buy something, so why not stick with what goes along with my base? The choice wasnt based on marketing, it was based on what is designed to work with the PH perfect tech and what I felt my plants would benefit from. Which is also why I intend to add the Rhino Skin. Big Bug and B-52 is still up in the air, but it's likely I will ty them, but nothing else. Once I run out of the bases I want to try something different. I'll be more comfortable about checking PH and EC, I'll have a better idea of what to look for problem wise. Regardless of who's base nutes I chose I would have turned to the same company for any supplements, but that's jut me. if I buy a Kenwood stereo I look to Kenwood first for speakers, I doesnt make the Kenwood speakers best, but they are designed to work well together. I'll be honest, I don't know enough about CEC, or lighting or environment. Its all a learning process, and the more you learn the more you can do.
 
Tangerine_

Tangerine_

Well-Known Member
Fahn2k said:
Like I said you still didn't answer the question which was specific to you. What would you recommend?
Click to expand...
I did respond and I took the time to provide you an in-depth answer with reputable supplements that would work with ANY base nutrient lines. I cant help that you're caught in a bubble of cognitive dissonance created by very clever marketing and choose to disregard the suggestions.
Tangerine_ said:
Any complete base nutrients will work. AN bases are fine if that's what you already have and they have similar ratios as others on the market but most of their supplements are redundant. The thing to keep in mind when using additional supplements - there's really only a few that can benefit a grower and none of them are game changers.

If you feel like you'd benefit from an inoculation of bennies, Photo Plus has a good spore count, just be mindful of the expiration date.



- Fulvic and Humics - aid in nutrient uptake and overall health (Ful-Power is the best one I've found)
- Amino acids - assist in Ca uptake and help fight salt build up.
- Ascophyllum Nodosum (good kelp) provides lots of aminos, sugars, vitamins, and cytokines. (good for stressed plants)
- Chitosan - induces SAR
- Salicylic acid - (Phytohormones) aid in uptake and bioavailability of silica. Also aids in pest and pathogen resistance

Learn to use your base nutes and maybe slowly experiment with others. If you can dial those in, you'll be golden
Click to expand...
Fahn2k said:
So I decided to pick up the Turantula, Piranha and Voodoo Juice to help boost root structure and stems.
Click to expand...
Again, I took the time to present you with the analysis that shows their bennies, (Piranha, Voodoo Juice, and Tarantuala) is literally bottled water.
ODA fert analysis.png
To which you replied
Fahn2k said:
You can always find a way to prove a point through analysis. ODA doesn't specialize in weed and so although they can say Whats in a sample of nutrients they cant say to what effect on the particular plant those numbers represent. Advanced has been around for awhile and like other companies has won various awards along the way for their nutrient blends. So it's not what's in one single bottle that matters, instead it's what ends up in your feed and in your plant when using the complete system. There may be better solutions out there as far as nutrients go, but it's a trade off
Click to expand...
Seasoned growers have tried to present you with some factual info. Do what you will with it. Its not my wallet and its not my garden.
 
OldMedUser

OldMedUser

Well-Known Member
Tangerine_ said:
I did respond and I took the time to provide you an in-depth answer with reputable supplements that would work with ANY base nutrient lines. I cant help that you're caught in a bubble of cognitive dissonance created by very clever marketing and choose to disregard the suggestions.


Again, I took the time to present you with the analysis that shows their bennies, (Piranha, Voodoo Juice, and Tarantuala) is literally bottled water.
View attachment 4962511
To which you replied

Seasoned growers have tried to present you with some factual info. Do what you will with it. Its not my wallet and its not my garden.
Click to expand...
Man you sound like a typical, 'I read it somewhere so it must be true' kind of closed minded misinformation distributor.

I've used AN for 20 years and tried a lot of others along the way and love the pH Perfect aspect or I'd use any other 3-part than GH as they have shit on us growers since they started where at least Big Mike has always been honest about what he makes nutes for.

They don't cost any more than others for the base nutes and most of the supplements are for suckers but that's true of all the others.

I only use RO water with mine and NEVER mess with the pH in DWC, soilless or even my semi-organic grows. Just the 3-part, Big Bud and the Rhino Skin for some silica. Any old Calmag will do, (using REMO atm), and Epsom Salts are cheap.

My first batch of hydro nutes came in 7 or 8 bags and a cheat sheet for mixing up your own but who needs that hassle for a personal grow. Nutes are a tiny part of my expenses for growing with the cost of power being the bulk of it. I still have about half left of the gallon jugs I bought for $40 each 5 years ago but have been using some MegaCrop and REMO stuff too. Spent a couple thou on power at least in that time. Hell, I spend more on RO water than nutes for each grow so need to get my system put together and save some cash there.

Haters gotta hate. mooning.gif
 
Fahn2k

Fahn2k

Well-Known Member
OldMedUser said:
Man you sound like a typical, 'I read it somewhere so it must be true' kind of closed minded misinformation distributor.

I've used AN for 20 years and tried a lot of others along the way and love the pH Perfect aspect or I'd use any other 3-part than GH as they have shit on us growers since they started where at least Big Mike has always been honest about what he makes nutes for.

They don't cost any more than others for the base nutes and most of the supplements are for suckers but that's true of all the others.

I only use RO water with mine and NEVER mess with the pH in DWC, soilless or even my semi-organic grows. Just the 3-part, Big Bud and the Rhino Skin for some silica. Any old Calmag will do, (using REMO atm), and Epsom Salts are cheap.

My first batch of hydro nutes came in 7 or 8 bags and a cheat sheet for mixing up your own but who needs that hassle for a personal grow. Nutes are a tiny part of my expenses for growing with the cost of power being the bulk of it. I still have about half left of the gallon jugs I bought for $40 each 5 years ago but have been using some MegaCrop and REMO stuff too. Spent a couple thou on power at least in that time. Hell, I spend more on RO water than nutes for each grow so need to get my system put together and save some cash there.

Haters gotta hate. View attachment 4962773
Click to expand...
Thanks for the comment, for some reason Tangerine can't except the fact that I got my recommendation from a seasoned grower. He can't except that I was attracted to PH perfect tech. If that's falling for market hype then I'm guilty, but so far it's worked and I'm happy. At the end of the day you don't need anything! Throw a few seeds out on the ground and watch what happens, a few will grow. No RO water, no boosters, no supplements, no fertilizers. I asked a simple question "what would you recommend" instead I was given a chart. Use any base! Then I got the long words that are supposed to make me think I'm talking to the worlds foremost authority so I should feel stupid and shut up. He didnt say whether or not he has ever tried Advanced, he didnt say if Advanced has ever caused a problem in his grows. If he did use Advanced how much experience growing did he have at the time. All relevant questions. I could go deep if I want to but to make a long story short, I have an area of expertise too. My area of expertise is sifting through bullshit! You have to be a fool to think a person would by a product just because they have a monkey on the label. I guess a 100% money back guarantee on every product they sell has nothing to do with a buying decision. Emailing the company and having them respond in less than two hours has nothing to do with it, ok. I'll admit when I bought Overdrive I looked at floralicious and Mighty Bloom Booster and booth appear to have more of the good stuff in them. Will they affect the PH if I add them to my mix? Overdrive it is. As a hobby grower I aint trying to win the cannabis cup.

1628688403362.png
 
Tangerine_

Tangerine_

Well-Known Member
OldMedUser said:
Man you sound like a typical, 'I read it somewhere so it must be true' kind of closed minded misinformation distributor.

I've used AN for 20 years and tried a lot of others along the way and love the pH Perfect aspect or I'd use any other 3-part than GH as they have shit on us growers since they started where at least Big Mike has always been honest about what he makes nutes for.

They don't cost any more than others for the base nutes and most of the supplements are for suckers but that's true of all the others.

I only use RO water with mine and NEVER mess with the pH in DWC, soilless or even my semi-organic grows. Just the 3-part, Big Bud and the Rhino Skin for some silica. Any old Calmag will do, (using REMO atm), and Epsom Salts are cheap.

My first batch of hydro nutes came in 7 or 8 bags and a cheat sheet for mixing up your own but who needs that hassle for a personal grow. Nutes are a tiny part of my expenses for growing with the cost of power being the bulk of it. I still have about half left of the gallon jugs I bought for $40 each 5 years ago but have been using some MegaCrop and REMO stuff too. Spent a couple thou on power at least in that time. Hell, I spend more on RO water than nutes for each grow so need to get my system put together and save some cash there.

Haters gotta hate. View attachment 4962773
Click to expand...
Nonsense. I've repeatedly said their base nutes are fine and similar to every other brand on the market.
Try reading for comprehension instead of speed.

Actually, rather than grandstand, take an educational approach and tell me exactly what I've posted that isnt based in fact and/or helpful.
 
Last edited:
Fahn2k

Fahn2k

Well-Known Member
Tangerine_ said:
Nonsense. I've repeatedly said their base nutes are fine and similar to every other brand on the market.
Try reading for comprehension instead of speed.

Actually, rather than grandstand, tell me exactly what I've posted that isnt based in fact.
Click to expand...
I do read for comprehension, and you have yet to answer the questions. You keep throwing big words and a chart. If I go to a republican meeting I'll see charts saying mask are not needed and the vaccine is bs. If I go to a Democratic meeting I'll see charts and hear people say mask are needed and the vaccine saves lives. Both meeting will have knowledgeable experts and both will sound believable. The reality of course is based on whether you are witness to someone who died or is suffering from covid. You show a chart from 2015 and then don't answer the question. What do you use? When did you try Advanced? What was your level of experience when you tried Advanced? What problem did you have when you used Advanced? I'm saying don't dog a company if you never used their product. I'm saying when I push the on button on my TV remote I could care less about what happens inside the TV or what it's made of. I care about whether it comes on or not. I told you a experienced grower recommended Advanced, I told you the reason I picked Advanced base nutrients. I told you why I picked their supplements. I told you I looked at, tasted, and felt the end result of an Advanved grow. Here you are still stuck on stupid claiming I bought the marketing hype and avoiding answer the simple questions. Put the chart and the doobie down and think really slow. Some people are happy to buy a product that has been on the market for 20+ years. Some people buy products based on reviews, guarantees, personal experience and perceived value. You think it's expensive, I think it's cheap. Why don't we just agree to disagree.
 
Aeroknow

Aeroknow

Well-Known Member
Fuck AN. Fuck em right in Big Mikes Pedo Ass.

with that said, and just like @Tangerine_ has said a few times, their base nutes are decent. I would stay away from all their additives. If you don’t believe those of us here saying these things do yoursef a favor and try a controlled experiment so you can find out yourself. All things the same, water half the plants with just the base nutes(i would still ph it to exactly what i want unless it’s there already) and water the other half with the base+additives.
And btw, you should never have to go any higher than 1.6-1.7 EC
 
Last edited:
Fahn2k

Fahn2k

Well-Known Member
Aeroknow said:
Fuck AN. Fuck em right in Big Mikes Pedo Ass.

with that said, and just like @Tangerine_ has said a few times, their base nutes are decent. I would stay away from all their additives. If you don’t believe those of us here saying these things do yoursef a favor and try a controlled experiment so you can find out yourself. All things the same, water half the plants with just the base nutes(i would still ph it to exactly what i want unless it’s there already) and water the other half with the base+additives.
And btw, you should never have to go any higher than 1.6-1.7 EC
Click to expand...
I agree with you 100%! I'm doing exactly what you said, comparing side by side grows. In the future when somebody asks about Advanced my comments will come from actual experience. They do now, but I'll be able to talk about why it's better or worse than which ever other nutrient I try. Ill also be able to say why, no need to avoid questions and put up charts. And yeah fuck Big Mike too! I don't know the bastard, and he don't sign my check.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top