Advantage V. disadvantage CFL's

Though I am not an expert, I think the best way to arrange CFL's given their limited intensity is either a ScroG and or LST method so as to focus all light on the top of an even canopy ... or surround the plant with as many as possible. (I know it's been said before...but that does lend credit to those methods)

The latter has been demonstrated to be effective per Garden Knowm's detailed book. ScroG in general was designed for use with low intensity lighting...(Flouro Tubes) in particular, but great results have been achieved with CFL's specifically.

In fact I have seen no real difference in yield vs HPS in 250 watts an under in ScroG setups. Both CFL and HPS yield an average of 4-5 ounces using 2-3 plants. (*note* adding more plants do not increase the yield)

I find ScroG/LST a bit easier than constantly trying to adjust bulbs around a plant, but of course, that is a personal preference. It also gives me just one area to focus on...and that is the top.

So there is no misunderstanding on the vs HPS portion. There is a tremendous difference in yield at HPS wattages above 250. I believe this is due to the inability of CFL to scale competitively with the HPS wattage efficiency. Also strangely enough, lower wattage CFLs 26watt have a better efficiency than higher wattage CFL's. For proof, just divide Lumens/watts of the various CFLs. (1700lumens/23watts = 74 lumens per watt vs 2800lumens/42watt = 66 lumens per watt)

CFL's do the job alright just as good as HPS unless your running a 1000 watter then it becomes hard to compete. but in your opinion how important is the kelvin rating which is something that is adjustable using CFL's what is opt for blooming in kelvin ???

lastfrontier said:

CFL's do the job alright just as good as HPS unless your running a 1000 watter then it becomes hard to compete. but in your opinion how important is the kelvin rating which is something that is adjustable using CFL's what is opt for blooming in kelvin ???

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Heres a question for you " How do you start eight threads of the same setup and get a sticky with like 20 posts to your count?"

lastfrontier said:

CFL's do the job alright just as good as HPS unless your running a 1000 watter then it becomes hard to compete. but in your opinion how important is the kelvin rating which is something that is adjustable using CFL's what is opt for blooming in kelvin ???

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Honestly I haven't experimented outside of the recommended kelvin ratings for Veg/Bloom (6500k/2700k). I'd suspect that it would be best to use all 2700k bulbs in bloom.

Also, I'd be interested in hearing info from anyone who has used UVB CFL (reptile) lights in conjunction with 2700k CFLs in late bloom. The UVB is suppose to increase potency.

One comment on lighting:

Plants use more red light than blue throughout the entire life of the plant. It is how the plant uses light to produce sugars.. I'll pull the specific information down if anyone is interested in it.

Placing the CFL's in an arrangement that supplies a 3:1 ratio of red to blue would be ideal for all phases.

Like I said, I'll pull the information.. but we all know if you are really interested you'll teach yourself like I did.

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Ok, it is good to see people went from bashing to using a bit of knowledge for their arguments.

What I've gotten from this post and the rest of my research is that the CFL's can match the HPS.

Due to the lack of intesity the CFL's need to be closer to the vegetation, almost negating the Inverse Square Law.

If spreading the light out around the top and sides of the canopy the bud production would be more uniform.

CFL's have a longer life-span, and as they are less intense they won't degrade as fast as a HID.

Adding lights does add to the amount of light reaching the plant but not the intensity.. duh.

The whole point is: More light = more growth.

If I had the money I'd definitely drop it for the right equipment to measure lights and how fast they degrade.

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As I've said before in my CFL thread (see below): CFL's are PERFECT for any small op. When one decides to go bit the CFL's will cause more problems than say a single HPS. Trying to cover a 4' x 4' area with tiny CFL's will become EXTREMELY cumbersome.

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I can't wait to see some more CFL op's in full swing.

Anyone have experience with T5's?

I'm loving mine right now (Agromax F54T5/HO; 54w; 5,000L; 6500K).

Soon to be upgrading to a 40,000L setup with the 3:1 ratio mentioned above.



Enigma

Well I'm sure glad to be exposed to all this good info on CFL's. Guess I will find out first hand here before too long. Bought me one of them aereogardens and they got CFL's I think. Done been out researching and window shopping for some more to go on the sides. Guess I try that old Sog or Scrog LST stuff. Sounds plausible to me. Got me a kewlish little grow space available. Painted flat white as per the FAQ. Got a fart fan for exhaust and big hole in the bottom for intake..also a cheap little fan...blah blah blah. It aint but half a closet so not much room to work in there. Nice to know that wattage/lumens formula. I figgered the mo bigga..the mo betta. Silly me huh? Gots some orphan seeds trying to sprout as we speak. Leaves me only to buy distilled water to be in bidness so to speak. Now I am speaking habnero seeds here. I dont do illegal stuff like consume killer weed etc. That stuff can make a person want to rape and kill ya know? I figger reefer and habs have similar growing habits. Couldnt find nothing on hydro Habs

bigwheel

I like surrounding plants with CFLs and then surrounding the CFLs with plants... thus using all SIDES of the light bulbs.. and giving all parts of the plant LIGHT


CFL penetration is PATHETIC and thus USING the entire bulb and giving the entire plant access to light is crucial..

enigma i have to agree with you that is why i use the CFL's because you can move the kelvin rating up and down as you please for diffrent things and the lumens are also adjustable

it must be nice to have 60 bulbs kicking around so you can change the kelvin rating whenever you want i started reading this thread to get some more info on growing with CFL's instead all ive found are a bunch of arguments about quantity lumens kelvin and all kinds of other shit what i dont see is a journal recording your amazing grow from start to finish last frontier i hope that any noob's out there dont run right out and buy a shitload of CFL's just on your advice alone they might think theyll get 2.5-3 ounces per plant and may not be able to produce the same results as you and be disappointed you should start a journal so we can all marvel at your superior growing technique cause im sure were all interested in growing 2.5-3 ounces per plant that would be nice im not saying your numbers arent possible but why not share your technique with us so that maybe we can enjoy the same amount of finished product as you that would be nice if a fellow grower would do something like that for his brethren on here after all isnt that why were here to share information that helps ppl better the quality and quantity of their grows and show new ppl how it can be done including all of the options available to the such as mediums nutes lighting etc i have to go now because if i dont start using periods again im going to have one bye everyone and happy smokin check out my experiment its pretty cool and im having alot of fun with it too i think youll enjoy it also

https://www.rollitup.org/grow-journals/45296-full-led-grow-room-aeroponic.html

well i dont think i want to spend that kind of time on this terminal and i dont just give secrets out for any reason but i will share a bit i like to grow organic and one of the problems i feel that you run into is nutrients V. airation i grow someware between arioponics and soil when i make up a pot for a ready clone i fill in this order 1-2 inches soil 4 inches lava pebbles the rest my personal mix of soil in the 4 inch space i use some what of a bubble bucket method i place 2-4 air rocks and a long line of tubing coming out of the side of the pot long so you can transplant to a bigger pot before blooming i do this because in place of perlite and also in the bloom pot i have coiled in the soil is laser line hooked to a central reservoir one of the great advantages of hydro ponics is that there is a great amount of air to the roots and no light to damage them if you give the soil to much airation with perlite or coco fiber which is a good nutural medium you dilute the soil and to make up for that you must add to the soil more often and this is what i try to avoid i like to plant the ready to bloom plant in my special mix of soil add my nutrients once and bloom i only give nutrients once in the inital transplant this is one of the thing i do.............. as usual here are the periods place them where you want

i grow aero and i dont understand half of what i just read. but, if it works for you then go with it. got any pics? i would be interested in seeing how your doing this

I would love to see your setup

lastfrontier said:

well i dont think i want to spend that kind of time on this terminal and i dont just give secrets out for any reason but i will share a bit i like to grow organic and one of the problems i feel that you run into is nutrients V. airation i grow someware between arioponics and soil when i make up a pot for a ready clone i fill in this order 1-2 inches soil 4 inches lava pebbles the rest my personal mix of soil in the 4 inch space i use some what of a bubble bucket method i place 2-4 air rocks and a long line of tubing coming out of the side of the pot long so you can transplant to a bigger pot before blooming i do this because in place of perlite and also in the bloom pot i have coiled in the soil is laser line hooked to a central reservoir one of the great advantages of hydro ponics is that there is a great amount of air to the roots and no light to damage them if you give the soil to much airation with perlite or coco fiber which is a good nutural medium you dilute the soil and to make up for that you must add to the soil more often and this is what i try to avoid i like to plant the ready to bloom plant in my special mix of soil add my nutrients once and bloom i only give nutrients once in the inital transplant this is one of the thing i do.............. as usual here are the periods place them where you want

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From what I have witnessed growing with different setups,both cfl and hps, is that adding more cfl lights will add more light spread, but not intensity as mentioned before. Unless you are customizing these cfls adding more of them in scrog will naturally position the added bulbs more toward the outside edge of the grow space assuming your design does not stack them one on top the other. Now the outer buds are closer to the new bulbs witch increases the light intensity on those outer buds.The result is more and or larger buds around the outside edges, and possibly more overall weight. All the bud I have come across grown under fluorescents lack the density of the buds grown under high powered hps which adds the real weight to your crop. CFL Ounces usually barley fit in one bag and are fluffy as hell. Its almost a mind fuck, but I think the quality was great when cared for properly, and the high was just as good as the same strand under 1000 watt hps. Note that the idea behind a scrog is not to get photogenic buds, but to get the most bud you can in a small are. For me I like blending some hps spectrum in the 70 watt to 150 range during flowering, and I am strictly a scrog grower. Keep in mind that overall harvest weight is proportional to bud density, witch is directly associated with light intensity.

"From what I have witnessed growing with different setups,both cfl and hps, is that adding more cfl lights will add more light spread, but not intensity as mentioned before"




i am not sure what you are saying is it your feeling that if you have one cfl or 3 cfl's that you have the same amount of lumen's because adding more cfls dose spread the light over a greater area but it also adds lumens and this can be seen with a simple light meeter and if you dont belive me or the light meter then just call any of the big MFG. GE, SYLVANIA and they can help you find out how to add lumens which is how you measure the intensity of light mabey i just did not understand what you were saying no disrespect i will agree if you dont use the correct amount of lumens close enough and the right spectrum you will get buds that arent as full in my experience the bluer the kelvinrating (6500) causes them to reach for the sky but in the (2000) they dont grow up they grow out and tend to fill in and build trycomes my hood provides the same ammout of lumens in incruments as a 400, 800, 1000, 1200 watts HPS meaning it can be set for any of those lumen ratings and wattage and i could not be happier i got the light from red-shield@hotmail.com he dose HPS MH and CFL's

You know what I find strange...people read these posts...and still assert that CFL's and Flouro technology is poor in general. Regardless of the proof to the contrary.

I have found several growers who do just fine and EASILY yield a few ounces a plant with CFL/T5 (on this site no less). Everyone complains about fluffy buds..and yet no one says the quality is bad...so why continue to bring it up? It is still a few ounces a plant. Is fluffy bud blasphemous? If you don't like it, don't smoke it...but don't knock other people who choose not to use HPS. You do not contribute to the thread nor to people who are trying to learn to maximize what they have.

How many Garden Knowm books or VV T-5 grows does it take? You do realize that the new Flouro Techology is considered fine by Jorge Cervantes right? Are CFL's better than HPS? Let me let you in on the answer...IT DEPENDS ON THE SITUATION...better is a subjective term. But to keep arguing that you can't get at least a few ounces a plant is just ridiculous. It's been done already. In fact it isn't even surprising. Now to get that yield over a ton of plants is just not efficient with CFL. Maybe if you had a bunch of 4ft T5 8 bulb arrays.

No one is suggesting to start a commercial CFL grow. But to continue to spout off that CFL's don't produce is a blatant disservice to members who are eager and opened minded.

thunderchunkie said:

...cause im sure were all interested in growing 2.5-3 ounces per plant that would be nice im not saying your numbers arent possible but why not share your technique with us so that maybe we can enjoy the same amount of finished product as you...

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Whoa, a bit of punctuation next time...

I hate to break this to you, but it has already been done before...and put in a nice easy to follow book by GK. I'd suggest you pick up the book. How much more proof did you need exactly?

you can grow chronic for cheap with no brain and get a great harvest with cfls...

ilovecfls

you can grow chronic for not so cheap, requires a bit of brain and get a bad ass harvest with a 1000 watt hps (if used properly and taken advantage of....).... more can go wrong with HIDs but more can also go RIGHT .....

same with soil.... soil is great... aeroponics is better.... if used properly and taken advantage of.... but A lot of shit can go wrong.. real quick like when using aeroponics... if you can't take advantage of the technologies.. then stick with the old school methods...

word

iloveyou

Lastfrontier... I am basically saying that adding cfls increases yield, sorry you cant understand the analogy, but that is the best I can do. I just don't see a situation where I would use quite as many cfls as you, but if you like it then who cares what others say. I have a degree in electronics as well, so we both know that heat is synonymous to watts. I would make my heat count in the lumans department and there is a huge jump in lumans to watt efficiency once you get to the 400 watt hps hoods and above.Why use all those cfls producing potentially a 800-1000 watts of heat to penetrate just 3 inches? I believe your setup would be way more efficient in the lumans to watts ratio with one or two medium HPS hoods since it appears you have room for them and you are going to produce the heat anyway, unlike me who only has a cabinet space. I think cfls are ideal for all around cabinet growing, it's what I do, but I have several small 70 watt hps lamps I use during flowering, and have done the cfl to small hps heat comparisons in my cab. If you can use some suplimental hps, then why the fuck not. I understand 400s are hot as hell for cabinet growing, unless using a cool tube, but I am not suggesting using a lamp that size to everyone. Most of us are here because we have limited space or dont want to saw a hole and vent to the outside.For 1/2 the watts being used in this mammoth hood, a 400 hps could penetrate deep into the plants canopy.I am not a cfl basher or I wouln't be reading in this forum, but there is a point when it makes more since to cross over to the bigger lights and if I were to try and grow a pound it would not be with cfls. Tanuvan, I thought I was making it clear that the buds were good with cfl, so not sure why your panties are wadded up so tight. Never said the technology was poor eighther so not sure how you got that. I don't think there is anything at all wrong with floros, but I will not rule out one of two small hps lamps when it can be cooled along side a 42 watt cfl np.

Well two or three of my little habenero plants peaked out of the grows hole in my new areogarden yesterday. I feel like such a proud new Papa. I did the germination deal with the wet paper towel. Some of them grew long tails and some didnt have a tail at all. I went ahead and planted them all just to be on the safe side. Figger I can always pluck a few if there gets to be too many. Dont want to wind up with any more than 4 and there is 7 holes to fill if you want. Heard about this other fella who had good luck with 4 plants in the gizmo.

bigwheel

smokeringz i was not mad at all and i just did not understand. i have long said that hps is better then CFL's for production growing but i still cant agree with you that a 400 watt is that much more lumens per watt for two reasons a good 400 watt HPS provides 50,000 inital lumens in HPS i have come to learn that the lumens burn off faster then CFL's also using the numbers above you can see that would provide 125 lumens per watt the CFL's that i use provide 110 lumens per watt and i also have heard that you get into the mean lumens (400 watt would then be reduced about 35-40 thousand lumens) in HPS in about 700 hours less then one bloom cycle i used to grow production about 5 years ago and i used hydro ponics and 2 1000 watt hoods i am limited in space now and plan to be for a while so i use CFL's but that is not the only reason the main reason is that i can adjust the hood for what i need at that time and that is a great advantage over a 1000 watt hood for me i mean if i want to grow 1-5 plants then i now dont have to get a new bulb or be forced to run 1000 watts and also man i am amazed that the CFL's that i use dont produce more heat then they do but i get along fine with just my artificial wind fan it cools and provides wind for the stems i think when i bought the hood i really considered the design for heat removal and so did the maker he is local for me so i went to his shop and he had the coolest thing there was a 1000 watt open end hood that had a radiant on the back side of the hood positioned right where the bulb goes and it had a small fan on it almost like a cpu processor radiant if you will pretty cool no punt intended


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