PetFlora
Well-Known Member
All good questions. At this time of year, temps/RH are quite grower friendly. I do not have sealed room, and only grow 2-3 at a time, so do not employ co2
AeroJunkie's High Pressure Air-Assisted Hydro-Atomized Aeroponic System (HPAAHAAS)
- Thread starter aerojunkie
- Start date
PetFlora
Well-Known Member
Oh, so now you tell me
JediParadox
Member
I considered it, just too paranoid to post a bunch of pics and after this crop I gotta break it all down and move anyways. Have to find a new "grow friendly" spot again. Could be a challenge when moving closer to the city.
PROF XAVIER
Well-Known Member
Ha ha....I had to learn the hard way as I'm sure everyone here does. Also with water temps and root health....a water chiller made life so much easier as well. That meter and chiller are as vital as my light system is.Oh, so now you tell me
Trichy Bastard
Well-Known Member
Yes, couldn't agree more. Without a chiller I was just spinning my wheels out here in Hawaii. It made all the difference in the world, and is now why I am so fixated on ingenuiting (is that a real word?) a way to keep my HPA chamber temps near 65 if possible. The chiller paid for itself on the first plant I used it on- all the other gadgets and supplements in the world won't mean a damn thing if the roots are too hot.
aerojunkie
Well-Known Member
Can someone tell me why a ton of crap on my thread was deleted??? Point me to the one responsible so I can piss on their loafers.
Hi AJ
Every thread lost about a months worth of posts
https://www.rollitup.org/support/513110-loss-data.html
Every thread lost about a months worth of posts
https://www.rollitup.org/support/513110-loss-data.html
CorralitosGrown99
Member
Can't tell you who did it, but I might be able to help get it back. Using the cache I was able to get back some of the deleted material...If anyone wants the pages I saved them and maybe if I get some time I'll just repost it all...
EDIT: I have the rest of page 23, full page 24, and full page 26
If someone wants to try to get page 25 and 27 use this in google and click the cached link
site:rollitup.org/ 492029-aerojunkies-high-pressure-air-assisted- #241
the spaces here^ .......................... and.................................^ are intentional
aerojunkie
Well-Known Member
Thanks for the info guys, CG99 If you can repost anything you have, I would really appreciate it
CorralitosGrown99
Member
Originally Posted by Trichy Bastard[URL="https://www.rollitup.org/aerogardeners/aerogardeners/492029-aerojunkies-high-pressure-air-assisted-23.html#post7142735" said:[/URL]
It made all the difference in the world. The chiller paid for itself on the first plant I used it on- all the other gadgets and supplements in the world won't mean a damn thing if the roots are too hot.
I'm curious about your water chiller Trich. The room I grow in has the portable a/c unit which I pipe into my tent. I let some of the air bypass the duct and blow into the room surrounding the tent. It keeps my res temp at about 68 degrees all the time and the ambient temp surrounding the tent nice and cool.Did you run a coil into your pod to keep the root zone temp down? I'm curious and unclear as to how you were able to achieve better results with the chiller? Was it that the temp of your water being sprayed was too high affecting the roots? I'm also a little unclear about if you pump your water into a accumulator which holds it under pressure, how can you control temp in a tank and does temperature even matter once the water leaves the nozzle and becomes atomized?
I considered investing in a water chiller and also running a light hood water cooler, coils running through the pod, and of course chilling the res water. If I'm unable to exhaust my heat from lights through an attic duct in the future, I'm wondering if anyone has had success running a water cooled hood and essentially being able to contain everything within the room with no exhaust whatsoever. Any input would be great. Thanks
*9 days of flush left
,,mnb.jpg
Last edited by JediParadox; 02-21-2012 at 03:52 PM.
"A fool and his money will soon part"
CorralitosGrown99
Member
Originally Posted by Trichy Bastard[URL="https://www.rollitup.org/aerogardeners/492029-aerojunkies-high-pressure-air-assisted-23.html#post7142735" said:[/URL]
Yes, couldn't agree more. Without a chiller I was just spinning my wheels out here in Hawaii. It made all the difference in the world, and is now why I am so fixated on ingenuiting (is that a real word?) a way to keep my HPA chamber temps near 65 if possible. The chiller paid for itself on the first plant I used it on- all the other gadgets and supplements in the world won't mean a damn thing if the roots are too hot.
Ok...so you aim to keep your chambers at 65 degrees. What about cloning? Clones like to be kept warm with a cooler air temp hence the mat. But if your cloning in the system, what do you keep your chamber at? My air temp is 71 and humidity is 80+ in the domes, root zone is 78-80the degrees with almost 100%5 r/h.....I have always read for clones that they should be warm but misted with cool water and it makes sense to do this during the life of the plant considering root respiration and water and nutrient absorption. I never strived to keep the root chamber that cool because of stunting of root development. How has your temps affected your plants or cloning and have you ever experimented with changing the overall temp of the chamber??? Sorry...late night rambling...!!! Ha ha.
CorralitosGrown99
Member
So what's difference between this type of system and simple system besides the headache and money?
Not trying to be dick just seriously trying to understand. I read a lot of the posts but I don't see what the deal breaker is to use this system/technique.
Not trying to be dick just seriously trying to understand. I read a lot of the posts but I don't see what the deal breaker is to use this system/technique.
CorralitosGrown99
Member
Originally Posted by JediParadox[URL="https://www.rollitup.org/aerogardeners/aerogardeners/492029-aerojunkies-high-pressure-air-assisted-23.html#post7158216" said:[/URL]
I'm curious about your water chiller Trich. The room I grow in has the portable a/c unit which I pipe into my tent. I let some of the air bypass the duct and blow into the room surrounding the tent. It keeps my res temp at about 68 degrees all the time and the ambient temp surrounding the tent nice and cool.Did you run a coil into your pod to keep the root zone temp down? I'm curious and unclear as to how you were able to achieve better results with the chiller? Was it that the temp of your water being sprayed was too high affecting the roots? I'm also a little unclear about if you pump your water into a accumulator which holds it under pressure, how can you control temp in a tank and does temperature even matter once the water leaves the nozzle and becomes atomized?
I considered investing in a water chiller and also running a light hood water cooler, coils running through the pod, and of course chilling the res water. If I'm unable to exhaust my heat from lights through an attic duct in the future, I'm wondering if anyone has had success running a water cooled hood and essentially being able to contain everything within the room with no exhaust whatsoever. Any input would be great. Thanks
*9 days of flush left
Attachment 2073230
Well, the chiller is an aquarium chiller, suitable for saltwater and nutes with a titanium exchanger. It's basically just a little cube that you run some tubing to from a typical pump and back to the res which it recirculates and keeps it at whatever preset temp. In using it for aero, I have read that chilling the nutes will have the chamber closely track the temps of the nutes as long as there is sufficient insulation around the chamber. One way of achieving this is to run 20 or 30 feet coiled up line between your accumulator and solenoid, and have it in a cold water bath from the chiller, ice, whatever. I also opted to run a the chiller's output through a line that runs parallel with my solenoids and is insulated sort of like how a beer glycol chilling system works. In the end, I do not have enough insulation to keep the chamber cool, so I am working on this right now.
CorralitosGrown99
Member
Originally Posted by PROF XAVIER[URL="https://www.rollitup.org/aerogardeners/492029-aerojunkies-high-pressure-air-assisted-post7160947.html#post7160947" said:[/URL]
Ok...so you aim to keep your chambers at 65 degrees. What about cloning? Clones like to be kept warm with a cooler air temp hence the mat. But if your cloning in the system, what do you keep your chamber at? My air temp is 71 and humidity is 80+ in the domes, root zone is 78-80the degrees with almost 100%5 r/h.....I have always read for clones that they should be warm but misted with cool water and it makes sense to do this during the life of the plant considering root respiration and water and nutrient absorption. I never strived to keep the root chamber that cool because of stunting of root development. How has your temps affected your plants or cloning and have you ever experimented with changing the overall temp of the chamber??? Sorry...late night rambling...!!! Ha ha.
Agree cloning likes higher temps than flowering plants. My pod temps were always in the 90's which was just too hot for decent roots. They did live believe it or not, but I believe the temps always kept me from getting great results and not even results I cared to mention
EDIT: also, I haven't cloned in the chamber with the 65 degree range, but I suspect they would be okay. Atomizer had chillier temps where he lived and seemed to be able to clone in his chamber without issue.
CorralitosGrown99
Member
Originally Posted by Irie'eyed[URL="https://www.rollitup.org/aerogardeners/492029-aerojunkies-high-pressure-air-assisted-post7164780.html#post7164780" said:[/URL]
So what's difference between this type of system and simple system besides the headache and money?
Not trying to be dick just seriously trying to understand. I read a lot of the posts but I don't see what the deal breaker is to use this system/technique.
I suspect AeroJunkie will also answer this, but to be honest- high pressure aero, and atomized aero are for people that like to tinker and build things, and get satisfaction out of it. You can grow some nice plants other ways for alot cheaper, but there are some advantages here. We don't recirculate nutes, so never have to adjust ppm or ph in between res refills. There is very little wastewater/nutes, or electricity used, so after the initial investment, it is cheaper than anything but soil. You can also leave unattended for longer periods without much worry. In the end, it creates optimal root conditions and beautiful roots, seems people can grow some beautiful plants and a little faster than traditional methods. Nothing of epic magical proportions or anything, but in my opinion, it probably has the potential to grow the best out of any other method- if designed and dialed in properly... The kind of person you are will dictate if the additional benefit is worth all the extra work designing and building a system. Unfortunately there are no known commercial systems out there that do it the way we try to here. The Atomix once was, but was very expensive (5k-6k) and went out of business. I think they were bought out by a US company, but don;t know much about it anymore.
CorralitosGrown99
Member
Trichy bastard. Thanks so much for the answer breaking it down and explaining simply. I have tried a cheaper aero setup sorta. Nothin like u guys I made a thread here with some pics. And now I'm using coco experimenting with. But u guys ate definitely doing some outrageous stuff it awesSome to see. Thanks again. I'm going to re read this thread.
CorralitosGrown99
Member
Originally Posted by Irie'eyed[URL="https://www.rollitup.org/aerogardeners/492029-aerojunkies-high-pressure-air-assisted-24.html#post7166152" said:[/URL]
Trichy bastard. Thanks so much for the answer breaking it down and explaining simply. I have tried a cheaper aero setup sorta. Nothin like u guys I made a thread here with some pics. And now I'm using coco experimenting with. But u guys ate definitely doing some outrageous stuff it awesSome to see. Thanks again. I'm going to re read this thread.
haha cool man... If you are interested, I also have a thread which has a summary of the ideas and concepts in the first few posts. It's in my sig. Basically you can either pressurize the water- (hydraulic) or have it mix with compressed air (atomized aero). Aerojunkie here is using the AA setup, and I am using the hydraulic. The principles and outcomes are similar, but AA is the next step up. I have had alot of fun with this so far, it mixes my love of technology, building, electronics and gardening all into one hobby...
CorralitosGrown99
Member
Originally Posted by Irie'eyed[URL="https://www.rollitup.org/aerogardeners/492029-aerojunkies-high-pressure-air-assisted-24.html#post7166152" said:[/URL]
Trichy bastard. Thanks so much for the answer breaking it down and explaining simply. I have tried a cheaper aero setup sorta. Nothin like u guys I made a thread here with some pics. And now I'm using coco experimenting with. But u guys ate definitely doing some outrageous stuff it awesSome to see. Thanks again. I'm going to re read this thread.
This may clarify (I think): HPA is about efficiency and economy. The more efficient the feeding method, the faster the growth, but that is an over simplification. The harder roots have to work to feed the plant (soil) the slower the growth, plus the least amount of grower control. As one moves up the efficiency ladder (DWC, F & D, low pressure aero using miniature sprinklers...) the easier it is for the roots to feed the plant, BUT, over watering negates the roots ability to process the nutrients efficiently. Low pressure pumps and coarse on setting timers do not work with HPA, or even F & D.
It is only once high pressure (>80 psi ~ 100 psi) is used to atomize the mist that the roots have the potential to be fed in a highly efficient way. Tiny droplets (~10-50 micron) are readily absorbed by the roots, UNLESS, your wet cycle is too long, which causes the particles to recombine into large (inefficient) droplets, negating the efficiency.
There is no one o/o cycle fits all as many variables enter the picture- ambient temp, RH (inside and outside the pod/root chamber), lamp heat (HPS radiates whereas T5s and LEDs do not...). The more the external elements are controlled, the easier it is to dial in a feeding cycle that compliments the conditions.
As you will see reading through this thread, no opportunity is spared to optimize that control. And while I understand it, I feel I can get better results than any OTHER method, without taking HPA to the extreme. Even in my fall back position, there is much to stay on top of or a crop can quickly go to shit. If you can afford to dabble, consider backing up a few grows with a simple F & D, which produces amazing results.
When roots are being fed efficiently they do not require high ppms. Roughly we veg using < 400ppms, and during flower ~ 6-800ppms. So even though the nutes are not recycled, hpa uses ~ 1/4 the nutes of DWC, lp aero, F & D.
hth
CorralitosGrown99
Member
So if the droplets or mist is tiny are guys able to use bigger types of organic nutes or are the nutes more synthetic or salt based? I hope that question made sense. Also are u guys able to keep a subculture in this type of set up to break down raw nutrients? Sorry if that Sounds confusing.