Afganistan Collapse

nuskool89

nuskool89

Well-Known Member
rkymtnman said:
i know, i wanted nuskool to put forth more trump jibberish.

it was like trump's healthcare plan: a book the size of 2 war and peaces put together with nothing on the pages. lol.
Click to expand...
There absolutely was a plan, see my prior post with the Matt Zeller interview, Biden didn’t listen. Do not be so blinded by bias to assume Trump’s exit would have been the same as Biden’s exit

edit:

www.msnbc.com

Afghan war vet: I will never forgive my country for this. We must save the people who saved me.

Former CIA analyst and Afghanistan war veteran Matt Zeller explains why he was "appalled" by President Biden's speech about the U.S. withdrawal from Afghanistan, and says he will never forgive the United States for this "moral injury." He discusses conversations with people he served with...
www.msnbc.com www.msnbc.com
 
nuskool89

nuskool89

Well-Known Member
rkymtnman said:
trump's plan was to 1. legitimize the Taliban and 2. remove all troops by may 1 as part of his Peace Deal with the Taliban.
Click to expand...
Exactly, and how that would have been executed under Trump vs what we’re seeing with Biden’s attempt or lack there of, would have been drastically different.

Clearly, the Taliban is legitimate, and has been legitimate for longer than we’ve been there.

Yes Trump wanted all troops removed from the endless wars. Good on him. That’s not the issue that’s currently unfolding and it’s a weak deflection.

edit: and how do you laugh at someone like Matt Zeller? A veteran, who has a depth of understanding on the subject you or I cannot (I served in the military under Obama but never deployed to Afghanistan) who is exposing the reality of the failure that could have been avoided.
 
rkymtnman

rkymtnman

Well-Known Member
nuskool89 said:
Exactly, and how that would have been executed under Trump vs what we’re seeing with Biden’s attempt or lack there of, would have been drastically different.

Clearly, the Taliban is legitimate, and has been legitimate for longer than we’ve been there.

Yes Trump wanted all troops removed from the endless wars. Good on him. That’s not the issue that’s currently unfolding and it’s a weak deflection.

edit: and how do you laugh at someone like Matt Zeller? A veteran, who has a depth of understanding on the subject you or I cannot (I served in the military under Obama but never deployed to Afghanistan) who is exposing the reality of the failure that could have been avoided.
Click to expand...
from SoS Pompeo:
He said the strategy announced last year by President Donald Trump of sending more troops to increase pressure on the Taliban and push them toward negotiations was working, and would reassure Afghans “that we will support them as they continue fighting to liberate their country and their people.”
“The strategy sends a clear message to the Taliban that they cannot wait us out,” he said.
 
rkymtnman

rkymtnman

Well-Known Member
nuskool89 said:
I cannot. I highly doubt there would have been a publicly published plan for a military exercise
Click to expand...
than how can he or you say his withdrawal plan "woulda, coulda shoulda" been better than bidens?

and i'm not blaming trump or biden or anybody. this was gonna happen no matter who was potus

you can't negotiate with terrorists.
 
printer

printer

Well-Known Member
Taliban declare 'amnesty,' call on women to join government
The Taliban on Tuesday said they would grant amnesty for all Afghans and called on women to join government offices, an apparent move to gain support from local populations who remain fearful of a return to the restrictive laws against women and girls from the Taliban’s rule more than two decades ago.

Enamullah Samangani, a member of the Taliban’s cultural commission, explained that the “Islamic Emirate of Afghanistan with full dignity and honesty has announced a complete amnesty for all Afghanistan, especially those who were with the opposition or supported the occupiers for years and recently,” according to The Associated Press.

The Taliban official also said that women have been the “the main victims of the more than 40 years of crisis in Afghanistan,” and that the insurgent group "doesn’t want the women to be the victims anymore.”

“The Islamic Emirate of Afghanistan is ready to provide women with environment to work and study, and the presence of women in different (government) structures according to Islamic law and in accordance with our cultural values,” he added, the AP reported.
thehill.com

Taliban declare ‘amnesty,’ call on women to join government

The Taliban on Tuesday said they would grant amnesty for all Afghans and called on women to join government offices, an apparent move to gain support from local populations who remain fearful …
thehill.com thehill.com

Which is interesting. Maybe it was fun for the first ten years living in caves, a purpose to your life . But the next ten years may have been harder for the leaders. Twenty years of hard living makes one appreciate indoor plumbing. The Taliban ruled for only six years, ruled a bunch of enclaves that were more a group of tribes rather than a country. How do you herd a bag of cats? With an iron fist, God on your side.

So maybe the leaders see this as a good way to enshrine a Iranian style of country. With them in a cushy job for life. People will see them as liberators, take over a country without a shot. Well at least the last part. As long as the allow women to be schooled and a limited part of society then the world would embrace them with wanting arms. Sure better than what they had before, a shit-hole country that was being run down.

We could only hope.
 
nuskool89

nuskool89

Well-Known Member
rkymtnman said:
than how can he or you say his withdrawal plan "woulda, coulda shoulda" been better than bidens?

and i'm not blaming trump or biden or anybody. this was gonna happen no matter who was potus

you can't negotiate with terrorists.
Click to expand...
I agree you cannot negotiate with them, but you can strong arm them. I guess my own bias comes in to play when assuming Trump would have handled this differently.

I have an inkling he would have used it as a campaign/political opportunity. To discuss the great success of having all Americans/allies out by ______ date and if the Taliban crosses us we “bomb the hell out of them”. The brashness is exactly what terrorists and dictators actually fear/respect.
 
S

schuylaar

Well-Known Member
HGCC said:
Well...I can recall being opposed to our whole middle east excursion during the W years. Obama came in and it was pretty weird as the dems stopped being opposed to war. They tried to out republican the Republicans, celebrating drone strikes and bragging about deporting more illegals than W., yadda yadda.

So we should never have gone over there. We wasted a bunch of money and lives, not to mention the broken ass people left behind by a 20 year war. Glad we are leaving. It is absolutely sad for the people that are there, we should be setting up evacuations.
Click to expand...
we need to stop being Team America: World Police. there was a mission and should've left upon completion. Biden was spot on in his speech.
 
S

schuylaar

Well-Known Member
printer said:
Taliban declare 'amnesty,' call on women to join government
The Taliban on Tuesday said they would grant amnesty for all Afghans and called on women to join government offices, an apparent move to gain support from local populations who remain fearful of a return to the restrictive laws against women and girls from the Taliban’s rule more than two decades ago.

Enamullah Samangani, a member of the Taliban’s cultural commission, explained that the “Islamic Emirate of Afghanistan with full dignity and honesty has announced a complete amnesty for all Afghanistan, especially those who were with the opposition or supported the occupiers for years and recently,” according to The Associated Press.

The Taliban official also said that women have been the “the main victims of the more than 40 years of crisis in Afghanistan,” and that the insurgent group "doesn’t want the women to be the victims anymore.”

“The Islamic Emirate of Afghanistan is ready to provide women with environment to work and study, and the presence of women in different (government) structures according to Islamic law and in accordance with our cultural values,” he added, the AP reported.
thehill.com

Taliban declare ‘amnesty,’ call on women to join government

The Taliban on Tuesday said they would grant amnesty for all Afghans and called on women to join government offices, an apparent move to gain support from local populations who remain fearful …
thehill.com thehill.com

Which is interesting. Maybe it was fun for the first ten years living in caves, a purpose to your life . But the next ten years may have been harder for the leaders. Twenty years of hard living makes one appreciate indoor plumbing. The Taliban ruled for only six years, ruled a bunch of enclaves that were more a group of tribes rather than a country. How do you herd a bag of cats? With an iron fist, God on your side.

So maybe the leaders see this as a good way to enshrine a Iranian style of country. With them in a cushy job for life. People will see them as liberators, take over a country without a shot. Well at least the last part. As long as the allow women to be schooled and a limited part of society then the world would embrace them with wanting arms. Sure better than what they had before, a shit-hole country that was being run down.

We could only hope.
Click to expand...
Taliban will need to hold steady before i believe this.
 
rkymtnman

rkymtnman

Well-Known Member
nuskool89 said:
I agree you cannot negotiate with them, but you can strong arm them. I guess my own bias comes in to play when assuming Trump would have handled this differently.

I have an inkling he would have used it as a campaign/political opportunity. To discuss the great success of having all Americans/allies out by ______ date and if the Taliban crosses us we “bomb the hell out of them”. The brashness is exactly what terrorists and dictators actually fear/respect.
Click to expand...
i still think any plan would fail.

"ok, so we've armed and trained the Afghan military to kill you guys for the last 20 years. but we're gonna take off now so you guys behave, ok??"

another failed attempt by the US to impose our will on a sovereign nation.
 
S

schuylaar

Well-Known Member
printer said:
Taliban declare 'amnesty,' call on women to join government
The Taliban on Tuesday said they would grant amnesty for all Afghans and called on women to join government offices, an apparent move to gain support from local populations who remain fearful of a return to the restrictive laws against women and girls from the Taliban’s rule more than two decades ago.

Enamullah Samangani, a member of the Taliban’s cultural commission, explained that the “Islamic Emirate of Afghanistan with full dignity and honesty has announced a complete amnesty for all Afghanistan, especially those who were with the opposition or supported the occupiers for years and recently,” according to The Associated Press.

The Taliban official also said that women have been the “the main victims of the more than 40 years of crisis in Afghanistan,” and that the insurgent group "doesn’t want the women to be the victims anymore.”

“The Islamic Emirate of Afghanistan is ready to provide women with environment to work and study, and the presence of women in different (government) structures according to Islamic law and in accordance with our cultural values,” he added, the AP reported.
thehill.com

Taliban declare ‘amnesty,’ call on women to join government

The Taliban on Tuesday said they would grant amnesty for all Afghans and called on women to join government offices, an apparent move to gain support from local populations who remain fearful …
thehill.com thehill.com

Which is interesting. Maybe it was fun for the first ten years living in caves, a purpose to your life . But the next ten years may have been harder for the leaders. Twenty years of hard living makes one appreciate indoor plumbing. The Taliban ruled for only six years, ruled a bunch of enclaves that were more a group of tribes rather than a country. How do you herd a bag of cats? With an iron fist, God on your side.

So maybe the leaders see this as a good way to enshrine a Iranian style of country. With them in a cushy job for life. People will see them as liberators, take over a country without a shot. Well at least the last part. As long as the allow women to be schooled and a limited part of society then the world would embrace them with wanting arms. Sure better than what they had before, a shit-hole country that was being run down.

We could only hope.
Click to expand...
depends how many would that be? and how long is the gig for?
 
hanimmal

hanimmal

Well-Known Member
rkymtnman said:
i still think any plan would fail.

"ok, so we've armed and trained the Afghan military to kill you guys for the last 20 years. but we're gonna take off now so you guys behave, ok??"

another failed attempt by the US to impose our will on a sovereign nation.
Click to expand...
Didn't we see Trump's plan when he pulled up on the Kurds?

Trump set Putin up once again to troll America.

Im glad I had lost power for a couple days.

The trolls have been out in force to try to own this narrative it seems.
 
xtsho

xtsho

Well-Known Member
CunningCanuk said:
Sending troops to Afghanistan had nothing to do with “nation building”. The purpose was to fight terrorism at the source. 20 years ago Afghanistan was a hotbed of Al Qaeda. So, if you’re going to talk about the reasons for going over there, at least be honest about it.

I’ve enjoyed watching you go on like you’re some kind of expert on the topic of Afghanistan and the Afghan people. Watching someone who possesses unwarranted confidence is funny to me so you’ve given me quite a few laughs.

BTW, If you need further confirmation that you are an idiot, Garybo and RobRoy liked your posts.
Click to expand...
Some Canadian doesn't like the way the United States pulled out of Afghanistan so they call me an idiot. You really are a piece of work. I'll buy you a one way ticket to go over there and make everything right. Take some rainbows and Unicorns with you.

I don't care who liked my posts. They are spot on and mirror the mindset of most Americans.

Get the fuck out of that shithole yesterday is what 80% of my country would say. It's easy for all you guys to complain while watching the United States to all the heavy lifting. You should be mourning the 158 Canadian casualties and the thousands that were wounded. Instead you have a childish name calling tantrum because it didn't end the way you wanted. It was never going to end well. If you used what you have for a brain you'd realize that.

You can call me names all day long. The fact is that the United States finally decided to cut our losses and get the hell out of that shithole. And it was long overdue. I don't care what happens over there. If you want the occupation to continue then get the Canadian government to send in 20,000 troops.
 
CunningCanuk

CunningCanuk

Well-Known Member
printer said:
Taliban declare 'amnesty,' call on women to join government
The Taliban on Tuesday said they would grant amnesty for all Afghans and called on women to join government offices, an apparent move to gain support from local populations who remain fearful of a return to the restrictive laws against women and girls from the Taliban’s rule more than two decades ago.

Enamullah Samangani, a member of the Taliban’s cultural commission, explained that the “Islamic Emirate of Afghanistan with full dignity and honesty has announced a complete amnesty for all Afghanistan, especially those who were with the opposition or supported the occupiers for years and recently,” according to The Associated Press.

The Taliban official also said that women have been the “the main victims of the more than 40 years of crisis in Afghanistan,” and that the insurgent group "doesn’t want the women to be the victims anymore.”

“The Islamic Emirate of Afghanistan is ready to provide women with environment to work and study, and the presence of women in different (government) structures according to Islamic law and in accordance with our cultural values,” he added, the AP reported.
thehill.com

Taliban declare ‘amnesty,’ call on women to join government

The Taliban on Tuesday said they would grant amnesty for all Afghans and called on women to join government offices, an apparent move to gain support from local populations who remain fearful …
thehill.com thehill.com

Which is interesting. Maybe it was fun for the first ten years living in caves, a purpose to your life . But the next ten years may have been harder for the leaders. Twenty years of hard living makes one appreciate indoor plumbing. The Taliban ruled for only six years, ruled a bunch of enclaves that were more a group of tribes rather than a country. How do you herd a bag of cats? With an iron fist, God on your side.

So maybe the leaders see this as a good way to enshrine a Iranian style of country. With them in a cushy job for life. People will see them as liberators, take over a country without a shot. Well at least the last part. As long as the allow women to be schooled and a limited part of society then the world would embrace them with wanting arms. Sure better than what they had before, a shit-hole country that was being run down.

We could only hope.
Click to expand...
 
CunningCanuk

CunningCanuk

Well-Known Member
xtsho said:
Some Canadian doesn't like the way the United States pulled out of Afghanistan so they call me an idiot. You really are a piece of work. I'll buy you a one way ticket to go over there and make everything right. Take some rainbows and Unicorns with you.

I don't care who liked my posts. They are spot on and mirror the mindset of most Americans.

Get the fuck out of that shithole yesterday is what 80% of my country would say. It's easy for all you guys to complain while watching the United States to all the heavy lifting. You should be mourning the 158 Canadian casualties and the thousands that were wounded. Instead you have a childish name calling tantrum because it didn't end the way you wanted. It was never going to end well. If you used what you have for a brain you'd realize that.

You can call me names all day long. The fact is that the United States finally decided to cut our losses and get the hell out of that shithole. And it was long overdue. I don't care what happens over there. If you want the occupation to continue then get the Canadian government to send in 20,000 troops.
Click to expand...
 
xtsho

xtsho

Well-Known Member
It's a good thing that we've pulled out of Afghanistan. After 20 years staying another single day would just be stupid.

We need to realize that despite all our military might changing the mindset of different cultures cannot be accomplished with bullets. That only leads to death and despair. The only thing that will change the way people think and live is time.

Trying to turn a society with a culture 1000 years behind into a westernized society does not work. We've tried it before. Look at Vietnam. All of our military might proved futile. But given time the Vietnamese people changed on their own and is now a thriving economy and part of the world.

Hopefully in the future an American President will visit Afghanistan like Obama visited Vietnam. It's going to take time but hopefully Afghanistan will find its way. I hope she does.

Vietnam made it hopefully Afghanistan will as well.

 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top