America, the only country to use nuclear weapons. Did they save lives?

abandonconflict

Well-Known Member
Pretty much sumed it up, in yet even after the 2nd nuke, some Japanese were STILL at it.
That any Japanese soldier would disobey orders from the emperor to cease combat is dubious. L2Bushido. Look up Ronin. Kamikaze (translates to wind spirit) pilots were following orders. That is how they rolled. If the emperor says kill yourself, you fuckin kill yourself.

If the emperor would have been executed, we would have been forced to nuke them. That is the only way that narrative can make any sense.
 

abandonconflict

Well-Known Member
Given the honor to retain dignity in defeat, they bowed to the superior force on the streets afterward as is very consistent with their culture. I have learned of Bushido in my study of Iaido.
 

curious2garden

Well-Known Mod
Staff member
These are direct quotes from general officers. I am attempting to support my position that the nuclear bombs did not save any lives. I am not incorrect at all.
I am just amazed at the signal to noise ratio of your posts. You keep posting the same things over and over, or mounting personal attacks, but you have yet to speak on anything I've asked you or that anyone else has asked you for that matter. You simply keep posting the same quotes. Why is that? Why would you refuse to speak about the Nanking Massacre, et. al.

You simply do not understand the social milieu of the time. My multi-engine flight instructor flew Liberators during WWII in the European theater and even though he crashed in France with the usual results he was grateful he was flying in the European theater and NOT the Pacific. Ask any one of the guys who served in the European theater of operations. They'll be the first to tell you it was better than the alternative.

But I'm done here. I must second cn's bowing out. I tried to clear a few things up but there are none so blind as those who will not see. Based on your admittance to past military experience and a few other things I've read I'd strongly encourage you to deal with your emotions in a more constructive way than hating your history.

FYI Tricky Dicky is not a source most folks use if they want to be taken seriously. Even at the time he wasn't exactly known for his forthrightness and honesty, and the revisionist's haven't got him whitewashed, yet :)
 

OGEvilgenius

Well-Known Member
There are a lot of people expressing desire for vengence, and a lot of cognitive dissonance, but I don't see much to support that any lives were saved. I especially laughed at the opinion that Truman wasn't an evil man. Actions speak a lot louder than rhetoric. And I have a hard time seeing 200,000+ innocent people being slaughtered for no moral reason as anything but evil.
 

abandonconflict

Well-Known Member
I am just amazed at the signal to noise ratio of your posts. You keep posting the same things over and over, or mounting personal attacks, but you have yet to speak on anything I've asked you or that anyone else has asked you for that matter. You simply keep posting the same quotes. Why is that? Why would you refuse to speak about the Nanking Massacre.
Talking about the Nanking massacre as justification for nuclear strikes is like saying Israel has been defending itself. I actually have not been posting any quote more than a single time. So bow out, but like CN, do so having failed to defend your stance that nuclear strikes save lives.
 

kelly4

Well-Known Member
Talking about the Nanking massacre as justification for nuclear strikes is like saying Israel has been defending itself. I actually have not been posting any quote more than a single time. So bow out, but like CN, do so having failed to defend your stance that nuclear strikes save lives.
If someone could have dropped the 'bomb' on Berlin 6 months into the war...you would be saying "There's no possible way that nukes saved lives." How were you to know that it would have saved tens of millions of lives? :-|

So, yes, they can save lives.
 

abandonconflict

Well-Known Member
If someone could have dropped the 'bomb' on Berlin 6 months into the war...you would be saying "There's no possible way that nukes saved lives." How were you to know that it would have saved tens of millions of lives?:-|
Hitler wasn't looking to surrender 6 months into the war.
 

kelly4

Well-Known Member
If my aunt had balls, would she be my uncle?
Ahhhh, the go to response of AC when he feels cornered.

You've been talking about a hypothetical for a while now. Now when you don't like your position, you start talking about your aunts balls again... :clap:
 

abandonconflict

Well-Known Member
Ahhhh, the go to response of AC when he feels cornered.

You've been talking about a hypothetical for a while now. Now when you don't like your position, you start talking about your aunts balls again... :clap:
No, not hypothetical, like your scenario. Japan did get nuked. Japan was already defeated and seeking surrender. The majority of US general officers actively involved in that theater have since opined that it was not necessary. This is a very coherent argument against the version of history that OPINES that nuclear weapons saved any lives.
 

kelly4

Well-Known Member
No, not hypothetical, like your scenario. Japan did get nuked. Japan was already defeated and seeking surrender. The majority of US general officers actively involved in that theater have since opined that it was not necessary. This is a very coherent argument against the version of history that OPINES that nuclear weapons saved any lives.
I'm not talking about Japan. I'm simply asking you a question.

Is it possible that the early nuking of berlin could have saved lives?

Please leave your aunties nuts out of the answer, please...
 

abandonconflict

Well-Known Member
I'm not talking about Japan. I'm simply asking you a question.

Is it possible that the early nuking of berlin could have saved lives?

Please leave your aunties nuts out of the answer, please...
Your attempt to set up a scenario where in a nuclear strike could arguably "save lives" has no bearing on this debate. I don't care.
 

kelly4

Well-Known Member
Your attempt to set up a scenario where in a nuclear strike could arguably "save lives" has no bearing on this debate. I don't care.
Talking about the Nanking massacre as justification for nuclear strikes is like saying Israel has been defending itself. I actually have not been posting any quote more than a single time. So bow out, but like CN, do so having failed to defend your stance that nuclear strikes save lives.
Stop being obtuse.

Your bolded part does not mention Japan, only the mention of nuclear strikes saving lives.

You say nuclear strikes can't save lives....You remind me of Freedomworks when you sideskirt a simple question.

Could it have saved tens of millions or not?
 

Doer

Well-Known Member
This is what is known as revisionist history. You can also read where Robert McNamara states he was against the Vietnam war too.
Well, until last week, I had not heard this. I was talking with a co-worker, my age, both our Father's were WW2 Vets. His father taught at the War College for many years after. Surprised me, but, this controversy was well known in the Military. We talked at length about some of these details. Many peer reviewed papers have been written and exchanged beneath and beyond the public story.

The Public story was to spare our guilt. Our guilt would have come from this point of view. It is the guilty view. And of course, Macarthur was not informed. I'm sure there was a difference of opinion about the use of these weapons. There still is. It is complex ego posturing on both sides. The idea that China would have scorched Japan was also debated. Many felt they were just waiting to fall on each other, Mao-Sheik Style. They would not have the means to invade Japan, being in civil war.

IAC, no one refutes the idea that they were arming themselves with bamboo spears, quite outside what the military was planning. And no one refutes the fact that Macaurthur took up and burned several hundred thousand Samurai swords. The Military may have been on the ropes but everyone agrees the fight to the death is what the US was facing. 10s of millions of desperate civilians, where honorable suicide is a noble ideal.

The revisionism, of course, is the idea that it was NOT to end the war quickly but is WAS to rein in the Soviet. War is everything. All the considerations are important. So, in this article, this is the REAL reason? No, just another good reason. WW2 was about Nukes, start to finish.
We had a great leader in Truman. FDR fiddled and we got in almost too late.

"Truman and many of his advisers hoped that the U.S. atomic monopoly might offer diplomatic leverage with the Soviets. In this fashion, the dropping of the atomic bomb on Japan can be seen as the first shot of the Cold War."
 

Doer

Well-Known Member
Originally Posted by abandonconflict
I see you believing a demonstrable falsehood and clinging to it despite that it is tenuous because it is traumatic to come to the realization that you are of a genocidal people...

Wait one, "you are a genocidal people...???" I thought you were a Ranger Medic, Honorable Discharge. I'm used to the silly name calling but this seems like a Freudian slip. Are you saying now, you are not an American? That makes so much more sense to me.

I would understand you a lot better. Obviously, Hate America, but not from around here? Or expatriated. No longer an American in spirit?
 

Trolling

New Member
Stop being obtuse.

Your bolded part does not mention Japan, only the mention of nuclear strikes saving lives.

You say nuclear strikes can't save lives....You remind me of Freedomworks when you sideskirt a simple question.

Could it have saved tens of millions or not?

Poll time?
 

Trolling

New Member
Stop talking like Yoda all the time lol.

Are you against the poll or against nuclear weapons and what do you mean for the poll's sake?
 
Top