America, the only country to use nuclear weapons. Did they save lives?
- Thread starter Padawanbater2
- Start date
kpmarine
Well-Known Member
No, "we" (I'm assuming you mean the folks who served at the time.) did not "save the world" as you put it. That's like saying 1 player on a soccer team won the game. If US troops had landed in Normandy without Hitler having an open front with Russia, they would have had their shit pushed in; that's a pretty obvious fact. You don't make a major push into Russia through the winter, you will get destroyed. Because Hitler ignored that historically established fact, the war in Europe was won.
Harrekin
Well-Known Member
Hitler was no noob, he just wasn't a military general.
A noob couldn't have got all the pieces in place like he did for setting up the Reich and his absolute dominance of it.
kpmarine
Well-Known Member
Great public speaker, horrible military commander. If he had listened to his Generals, WW2 might have been a lot more interesting than it already was.
Grandpapy
Well-Known Member
The killing of innocent civilians is wrong and I feel slightly less then whole for tiring to justify it.
On the other hand, My Grandfather was a POW in Indonesia and he wished they dropped it sooner, as it was he was held until it was discovered that the war had been over for months.
The Japanese where good at what they did. Torture and Kill.
On the other hand, My Grandfather was a POW in Indonesia and he wished they dropped it sooner, as it was he was held until it was discovered that the war had been over for months.
The Japanese where good at what they did. Torture and Kill.
Doer
Well-Known Member
Yet, it was the way of life that produced the winners and it was a near run thing. All of this "hate America" stuff is against the way of life and against winning.
We are the legacy and we take the credit. It is ours to screw up and many are happy to do it and are quite busy at it, right now. Get Real. Liberal is a theory.
kelly4
Well-Known Member
It's also retarded to be blamed or guilted for something you didn't have any part in.
I'm not talking to you Padawan, I'm just sayin....
This is what is known as revisionist history. You can also read where Robert McNamara states he was against the Vietnam war too.
abandonconflict
Well-Known Member
Nothing revisionist about it. MacArthur and Nimitz opposed it, that is certain.
Rob Roy
Well-Known Member
I agree with your sentiments about killing innocent civilians. I've read that the Japanese wanted to surrender and simply keep their Emperor as some kind of figurehead. FDR didn't want that, he wanted an "unconditional surrender" . Some think FDR also used the nuke as a way of displaying to the Russians the U.S. new toy and military might at the expense of innocent Japanese citizens.
You are right about MacArthur but not for the reasons you think or are probably currently written. I come from a military family and this was my parent's war. Suffice to say ole dugout Doug wanted to go into Japan so the body count would be much higher. Many of the command staff at that time felt the same way.
I suggest you look up the Nanking Massacre of 1937 to give you a little better idea of the enemy we were fighting. That was what drove one of my uncles to join the Flying Tigers under Claire Chennault.
Also quick before history is re-written look at the information about what my uncles faced while taking each of the islands on the way to the Japanese mainland. Look for the japanese troop forced suicides of civilians. I'll never forget my uncle (not the flyer but the marine jungle fighter), tales of the horrific sight of women and children jumping to their death off cliffs with Japanese military bayonets at their backs.
As we closed in on the Japanese mainland the non-combatant toll got larger and larger. The military knew precisely what a ground invasion would bring.
Innocent civilians..... what is an innocent civilian? I would argue the more correct term is non-combatant. Yes I hate war and slaughter but remember civilians are not impartial and they support their troops. It's called patriotism and nationalism. During WWII the US civilians supported the military. We did it by abiding by rationing and doing huge war drives for things like tires, gasoline and sugar etc...
If the civilians didn't support the war a country would not be capable of prosecuting it. The armed military is only the sharp edge of the wedge but the larger blunt base that backs that edge and the only thing that makes it functional is the civilian patriot. My war was Vietnam. My family served and my husband served. We watched as the civilian base eroded and voila the war ended.
That is what the US founding fathers understood and why they wanted the entire country to be a ready militia. No I don't like war but there is evil in this world and it has to be stopped and the means of stopping it usually aren't nice or pretty. Then again neither is evil.
Do I think the US is correct in everything it's done? No. Do I think there are regrettable losses? Yes. But Japan had to be stopped and there were 2 ways. We took the route of lesser damage unlike what our command staff at the time wanted.
abandonconflict
Well-Known Member
Your "military family" was a bunch of indoctrinated chauvinists. I have read enough books including books on MacArthur to know "Ole Dugout Doug" was opposed to the nuclear strikes because he favored the terms that the Japanese favored (which ultimately were the terms agreed upon) for surrender, before the battle of Okinawa and the nuclear strikes. The history you have read is the revisionist one. I suggest you learn another language and study history as all history written in English is questionable. All history written in English that does not conform to the American right wing agenda is called revisionist.
I hope this runs directly counter to the views you seem to hold sacred. You've been duped.
abandonconflict
Well-Known Member
Mass indoctrination is necessary to keep a war machine supplied with fresh young recruits.
kelly4
Well-Known Member
You must mean the indoctrination of the Japanese youth. The ones who were being taught that any Japs taken alive would be tortured, raped and eaten by the American savages...
abandonconflict
Well-Known Member
That is what I meant. American kids are full of shit too.
I didn't read it. I lived it. Your self-serving assumptions,ie about the number of languages I speak, my family being chauvinists (where did THAT come from), and what I do or do not hold sacred tell me quite a bit about you. Further your immediate descent to the ad hominem attack tell me you do not have the facts to engage in the logical argument in a reasonably adult manner.
You are absolutely correct and he still hasn't responded to the Rape of Nanking all he's doing now is spewing perjoratives. LOL
cannabineer
Ursus marijanus
You have no idea how hard you just failed. cn