Astir Grow Led Panel Project...
- Thread starter stardustsailor
- Start date
stardustsailor
Well-Known Member
tenthirty
Well-Known Member
^^^^^
What he said!!
Though, I didn't realize the huge leap in efficiency, if this is true........
That would mean 300-400 watts of led (or less) replaces 1k of HPS.
If I had the money: (simplified!)
Turn the led/diode into a transistor.
Control the phosphors with the base.
Treat the spectrum as a wave and shift the thing red or blue predicated on base current.
This could also be configured in a triode or pentode configuration.
Control the spectrum of the luminaire with a graphic equalizer with all of the leds putting out the same bandwidth and frequency response.
Oh to dream.
The rhetorical question.
How many runs would it take to fined the sweet spot at a given stage of development?
What he said!!
Though, I didn't realize the huge leap in efficiency, if this is true........
That would mean 300-400 watts of led (or less) replaces 1k of HPS.
If I had the money: (simplified!)
Turn the led/diode into a transistor.
Control the phosphors with the base.
Treat the spectrum as a wave and shift the thing red or blue predicated on base current.
This could also be configured in a triode or pentode configuration.
Control the spectrum of the luminaire with a graphic equalizer with all of the leds putting out the same bandwidth and frequency response.
Oh to dream.
The rhetorical question.
How many runs would it take to fined the sweet spot at a given stage of development?
stardustsailor
Well-Known Member
Still I think ,that customised WW & CW (<=YAG / silicate combo phosphors,there ) ,
along with some good-old & stable 620-640 nm reds,is a very good/decent way...
One good thing with small asian led manufacturers is the "customising " ability ,even at small orders..
And for few bucks more ,you can have even gold plated contacts
..Or even.....
Rhodium ( Rh ) plated, silver (Ag ) internal led mirror layer ....
And not just common used ,plain polished aluminium.... http://nvlpubs.nist.gov/nistpubs/jres/22/jresv22n1p93_A1b.pdf
PSUAGRO.
Well-Known Member
Yeah I still don't buy it/it's for a patent...........A good quality(philips) 400w hps bulb will put out around 600umol/s ( can't link on my phone) and I'm not even going to bring up the Gavita 1000w hps system that get's over 1.5ppf/w .......then their is the king philips 315w agro elite(cmh) which almost hits 2 ppf/w!!! hid is not dead yet SDS....
Rhodium??.....ha you know damn well that aluminum has excellent reflective properties for the price.....almost unbeatable
Rhodium??.....ha you know damn well that aluminum has excellent reflective properties for the price.....almost unbeatable
stardustsailor
Well-Known Member
read carefully what it is said in the patent....
The spectrum of each lamp were measured with ILT700A spectroradio meter at one distance.
The absolute irradiance- values were measured with precision pyranometer at certain distances and were later used to calculate the absolute spectra to these distances.
These absolute spectra were used to calculate PAR- and PPF calculations.
PAR-irradiance (W/m[SUP]2[/SUP]) was calculated by integrating the absolute spectrum from 400 nm to 700 nm.
PPF-values were calculated by first translating the irradiance value of each "channel" of the spectrum from W/m[SUP]2[/SUP] to microeinsteins and then integrating this spectrum over the desired wavelength band.
Don't trust the companies....
Philips says that 400W Green power has 725umol /sec/m^2 ....(for 120 Watt light output has 6.041 umol/watt !!!!!! .. )
While the diffused sunlight for 400 W/m^2 irradiance has a PPD of 2000umol/sec/m^2 ( 5 umol/sec/m^2 )
How and at what distance they 've measured those 725 umol/sec ?
hid is dead,my brother....
It's just the funeral, that takes long...
....
Too many 'relatives' and 'old friends',you see ....
And some are crying ,their guts out ,all over the corpse ...
Not wanting to believe ,that it's gone for good.....
tenthirty
Well-Known Member
Cycloptics is about to go commercial with their luminaire. It ain't cheep. About $600.00 a pop.
According to them it will take 2 fixtures to cover a 3x3 tray.
Excerpt from email with Cycloptics.
So in my situation the initial purchase price is a wash, led vs Elite Agro.
Multiple base legs to the transistor, each leg modulates the emitter collector junction in their own way.
As it has to do with leds.
Have say 3 layers of phosphors. All electrically manipulated. Each base leg controls a particular phosphor.
I have no relationships with any factory's, nor do I have the chemistry lab to do the basic research.
If you have those relationships, contact me off line and I can go into great detail on how this can be accomplished.
That's the problem, we have to make another luminaire every time we make a change, or pull one down out of production.
This is not the most efficient way to do things.
Also the plant counts are small per run. (control group???)
Consistency between tests???
tenthirty
Well-Known Member
stardustsailor
Well-Known Member
Rhodium??.....ha you know damn well that aluminum has excellent reflective properties for the price.....almost unbeatable
Which it oxidises to a semitransparent layer of aluminium oxide ....
(And I stated...: " for few bucks more...." )
Aluminium "oxidizes" (in fact decomposes due to slowly occuring electro-erosion .
Surface gets tiny holes all over .... ) also from electric current ,that is used to operate the led die ....
Optical coatings for alum: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Optical_coating
Rhodium anti-corrosive properties under constant/regular electric current :
http://www.vincelewis.net/rhodium.html
Which it oxidises to a semitransparent layer of aluminium oxide ....
(And I stated...: " for few bucks more...." )
*That's why the plating of silver with rhodium....
Aluminium "oxidizes" (in fact decomposes due to slowly occuring electro-erosion .
Surface gets tiny holes all over .... ) also from electric current ,that is used to operate the led die ....
Optical coatings for alum: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Optical_coating
Rhodium anti-corrosive properties under constant/regular electric current :
check out :Other uses
Rhodium foil and wire
Rhodium is used as an alloying agent for hardening and improving the corrosion resistance[SUP][15][/SUP] of platinum and palladium. These alloys are used in furnace windings, bushings for glass fiber production, thermocouple elements, electrodes for aircraft spark plugs, and laboratory crucibles.[SUP][36][/SUP] Other uses include:
- An electrical contact material due to its low electrical resistance, low and stable contact resistance, and high corrosion resistance.[SUP][37][/SUP]
- Plated rhodium, made by electroplating or evaporation, is extremely hard and is used for optical instruments.[SUP][3[/SUP]
http://invetec21.com/elements/16.html
http://www.vincelewis.net/rhodium.html
http://www.theodoregray.com/periodictabledisplay/Elements/045/index.s7.html
stardustsailor
Well-Known Member
Update:
first day of 3rd transition week .
From today till next Saturday cycle is 12.30' / 11.30 ' ...
Now...
First checked was the wattage ...
With extraction fan on ,9x 120mm (12 v )fans on and 8x panels on : 265 Watts
With extraction fan off ,9 x 120mm (12 v ) fans off and 8 x panels on : 190 Watts
Then ,afterwards the feeding procedure,follows :
....
And no more leakages (just spills from the sprayers ):
The girls ,43 days after they've emerged from ground :
first day of 3rd transition week .
From today till next Saturday cycle is 12.30' / 11.30 ' ...
Now...
First checked was the wattage ...
With extraction fan on ,9x 120mm (12 v )fans on and 8x panels on : 265 Watts
With extraction fan off ,9 x 120mm (12 v ) fans off and 8 x panels on : 190 Watts
Then ,afterwards the feeding procedure,follows :
....And no more leakages (just spills from the sprayers ):
The girls ,43 days after they've emerged from ground :
PetFlora
Well-Known Member
To whomever wrote this;
I never said anything negative about Astir, but you sure came on the quickness to their defense, but whatever, my whole point was Petflora constantly posting the same exact post everywhere, and I did not subscribe this thread to see his recommendations for something that he has no clue about, so I said something. Maybe if he tried the Astir panels he'd have a valid recommendation, but still shouldn't do it in people's journals.
Ok ,Probably you're right about that....But still it's his right to do so....He didn't break any "rules"...
What my crude attempt is showing is that Astir's concept is more than valid. No I am not using Astirs panels, but I am using low watt white leds + a 3 yo ufo 90 (R:B) v my HOT5 lights + aquarium bulbs which approximate led spectrums.
And since the two tents are neck and neck, in spite of the fact that my HOT5 tent has 3-6Xs the watts, that should help people understand what Astir is doing works as advertised. I expect to be a customer in the near future
If Astir (or in this case, SDS) has a problem with me posting, he can let me know, but I think he gets it. I'm helping prove his concept
I never said anything negative about Astir, but you sure came on the quickness to their defense, but whatever, my whole point was Petflora constantly posting the same exact post everywhere, and I did not subscribe this thread to see his recommendations for something that he has no clue about, so I said something. Maybe if he tried the Astir panels he'd have a valid recommendation, but still shouldn't do it in people's journals.
Ok ,Probably you're right about that....But still it's his right to do so....He didn't break any "rules"...
What my crude attempt is showing is that Astir's concept is more than valid. No I am not using Astirs panels, but I am using low watt white leds + a 3 yo ufo 90 (R:B) v my HOT5 lights + aquarium bulbs which approximate led spectrums.
And since the two tents are neck and neck, in spite of the fact that my HOT5 tent has 3-6Xs the watts, that should help people understand what Astir is doing works as advertised. I expect to be a customer in the near future
If Astir (or in this case, SDS) has a problem with me posting, he can let me know, but I think he gets it. I'm helping prove his concept
stardustsailor
Well-Known Member
Pet...
There's gonna be always the " other side "....
Peace,brother.
There's gonna be always the " other side "....
Peace,brother.
PetFlora
Well-Known Member
So does this mean it should be used in early veg, but not flowering?warm white/640nm...(3-1)???????????? ha ....................you should give 660nm another shot, can't ignore it's effects on root development
stardustsailor
Well-Known Member
It's not a matter of "if should be used " and "at what stage " ....
Of course it has to "be there ", at "all times " ..
The "problem " is "how much of it" and "combined with what else "....
Of course it has to "be there ", at "all times " ..
The "problem " is "how much of it" and "combined with what else "....
PetFlora
Well-Known Member
^^^ Well said!
As it relates to my response to 'whomever'. If we don't correct bad behavior, then by our silence, they assume we condone it.
At that very moment, we become culpable, otherwise known as Enablers. Look around, bad behavior has multiplied like rabbits
If WE don't hold this behavior accountable, who will?
As it relates to my response to 'whomever'. If we don't correct bad behavior, then by our silence, they assume we condone it.
At that very moment, we become culpable, otherwise known as Enablers. Look around, bad behavior has multiplied like rabbits
If WE don't hold this behavior accountable, who will?
PetFlora
Well-Known Member
And what percentage...
Why does 660 have to be there at all times? Physically, yes, but not necessarily switched on. I have long been suggesting 660 @ ~ 7-10%, but on a separate circuit, just in case a particular strain/s doesn't like it.
If you recall, I used 1/8 last grow, during the last 3 weeks of flower. Those plants took forever to get any amber trics, or for that matter many trics. Still, it is excellent. A very small amount kicks my ass for hours.
So 1/8 bulbs = 12.5%, which was too much, but my fixture is an 8 bulb. So one, or none. I can twist mine in/out. You can too, just put 660 on a separate circuit
stardustsailor
Well-Known Member
Yeap!
...........
stardustsailor
Well-Known Member
Look...
This wl range ( 650-680 nm ) of so called deep reds,is totally necessary..
Both for Photosynthesis and Phytochrome activation (and everything else,from there...)..
Thing is that the " boundaries " of "useful" and "a bit much "(<= which means a bit much of many other things...Very ..."regulatory" wavelenght range,to be in excess...),are not well defined for every different plant/species/kind...
So ..Careful steps there...
It is not what it may seem ...Bearin' only gifts...
But that wl range is absolutely necessary...
My personal point of view is that 660 nm reds (with red light being difficult to disperse,already.. )are way to powerfull to be used alone..
They need other " counteracting" wl ranges ...At blue and FR ...And maybe in some green/yellows (if lower canopy & buds are of a concern...)
But..My " way " is only phosphor leds ...
They keep advancing all the time ....
In fact I do not want any kind of red or FR ( AlGaAsP or AlInGaP dies ) ....
Take a glimpse at this :
http://www.faqs.org/patents/app/20120161170
PSUAGRO.
Well-Known Member
Rhodium!!!! had no idea......always learning something new in here
.............So you think Philips and other major corporations are not being totally truthful about their products in a capitalist market??
...............
@tenthirty......wow at that price $450 without the ballast??? that's a damn shame, really liked the "allbright" system; puts it off the table for allot of growers. I wonder why they suggest two allbrights for a 3x3 tray, seems like overkill to me........
So who's going to a test run with an all warm white panel????? Chronikool's grows have me believing this may work wonderfully.......
http://www.aliexpress.com/item/400W-High-Power-LED-floodlights-Spotlights-LED-tunnel-lights/684559507.html
http://www.aliexpress.com/item/Led-120w-tunnel-light-13000lm-Led-Street-lamp-AC85-265V/615805081.html
http://www.aliexpress.com/item/70W-LED-high-power-LED-Tunnel-Light-LED-Streetlights-Plant-light-playground-lights/555226856.html
Don't make me do it!!!!.....................ha
.............So you think Philips and other major corporations are not being totally truthful about their products in a capitalist market??...............@tenthirty......wow at that price $450 without the ballast??? that's a damn shame, really liked the "allbright" system; puts it off the table for allot of growers. I wonder why they suggest two allbrights for a 3x3 tray, seems like overkill to me........
So who's going to a test run with an all warm white panel????? Chronikool's grows have me believing this may work wonderfully.......
http://www.aliexpress.com/item/400W-High-Power-LED-floodlights-Spotlights-LED-tunnel-lights/684559507.html
http://www.aliexpress.com/item/Led-120w-tunnel-light-13000lm-Led-Street-lamp-AC85-265V/615805081.html
http://www.aliexpress.com/item/70W-LED-high-power-LED-Tunnel-Light-LED-Streetlights-Plant-light-playground-lights/555226856.html
Don't make me do it!!!!.....................ha
Chronikool
Well-Known Member
It was only because i was too stupid to understand the red/blue/blurple debate Psuagro....