Woodstock.Hippie
New Member
"So then where's the logic in claiming the moral high ground because of someones belief in something?"
Huh?
Huh?
doc111
Well-Known Member
Who says there is logic in human nature? Claiming a piece of land in the name of Something has been going on since the first human stood erect and clubbed another human over the head for a piece of meat.
P
PadawanBater
Guest
Pat Robertson and the like, almost everyone you ever come across who believes in a god claims those who don't can't be moral, because the way they see it, they have nobody to be held accountable to but themselves, and they know how easy it is to simply say to oneself "fuck it, if I don't get caught, who cares?" -except there's one thing they don't understand about being an atheist.... We are accountable. To ourselves. Which really illustrates the profound irony in that it's actually disbelief that keeps one moral. One of my favorite bits of understanding from one of the greatest minds to ever live;
The Socratic Paradox
Although Socrates himself never claimed to have knowledge, he does appear to have held certain positive doctrines. Principal among these is the Socratic paradox, that no one willingly chooses to act immorally. On the face of it this appears clearly false. After all, there are all kinds of action one recognizes as wrong but which one may choose to perform if one judges that they will bring benefit to oneself. For example, someone may choose to lie, cheat, or steal if they believe they can get away with it and gain some advantage. Socrates, however, held that this betrays some confused thinking. For in acting immorally they actually harm their own character far more than they harm their victim. While they may succeed in stripping others of material possessions and other trappings of worldly accompishment, genuine human happiness is a matter of inner harmony and self-mastery rather than material success. To come to this realization, however, requires some careful reflection on the true nature of virtue; reflection which will show, according to Socrates, that acting morally is the true route to personal flourishing. Hence another of his paradoxical claims, that virtue is knowledge, or, in other words, that if one truly knows what is good one cannot but choose to do it.
-p.25 Philosophers: Extraordinary People Who Altered the Course of History
With knowledge comes responsibilty.Who says there is logic in human nature? Claiming a piece of land in the name of Something has been going on since the first human stood erect and clubbed another human over the head for a piece of meat.
morgentaler
Well-Known Member
Okay, I giggled.
That's the first post I've seen from you that gets right to the point.
+rep!
morgentaler
Well-Known Member
Yup.
I'm accountable to my friends, my family, any employers, acquaintances, and really anyone I encounter, even my pets.
None of them have to threaten me with an eternity of torture to prevent me from exploiting or hurting them. I treat them well because I choose to. If I act poorly towards them, I also can't justify it with a sky-god and say "My biblical morality justifies me treating you like a shit.". No, if I treat you like a shit, that's because I wasn't a very nice person at the time. The only justification I have is my own viewpoint, not the parroting of a biblical text.
CrackerJax
New Member
Oh so they haven't been offered statehood twice? Egypts border isn't sealed?
OregonMeds
Well-Known Member
What's the deal man I explained you don't have the full story and the answers are in the documentary I posted. Saying they were offered statehood twice and should have been ok with it is like saying if your neighbor steals your house it's ok as long as he gives you the dog shed out back and the 5 feet square of space it's on. Does that sound good to you?
No...
That's the BS we were fed about the story, half truths and lies of omission. Watch the god damned documentary damnit.
doc111
Well-Known Member
How credible is this documentary? How do you know it's credible? Did you make it? Do you have some sort of "Inside Knowledge" about the Israeli, Palestinian conflict? This is one of the most complicated territorial disputes in modern history. How can we expect a documentary on this highly divisive subject to not have it's own slant on the situation? Regardless of which side you root for, this is a bad situation for all sides involved with no solution which will make everybody happy.......ever!
morgentaler
Well-Known Member
I didn't even watch that one.
I've known Jews and I've known Palestinians. I've seen a series of maps showing the movement of boundary lines for the last 50 years as Israel pushes into the Palestinian territories. And have seen videos of soldiers steamrolling homes as they move the fences forward and bring new settlers into the area.
It's too bad that most of the people hurt or killed on both sides are not the people causing all the pain.
I've known Jews and I've known Palestinians. I've seen a series of maps showing the movement of boundary lines for the last 50 years as Israel pushes into the Palestinian territories. And have seen videos of soldiers steamrolling homes as they move the fences forward and bring new settlers into the area.
It's too bad that most of the people hurt or killed on both sides are not the people causing all the pain.
doc111
Well-Known Member
To be fair one must mention the use of teenagers strapped with explosives into crowded markets and coffeshops to kill innocent civilians. We don't need to talk about the indiscriminate firing of rockets into neighborhoods. It's all bad on both sides. Israel most definitely has blood on her hands as well. Killing is always bad.........unless it is done for one's own "Righteous Cause".
morgentaler
Well-Known Member
Yes it is."Atheism" Just another DEAD END!!!
Atheism is a dead end to ignorance and faith based oppression.
Atheism doesn't have honor killings.
Atheism doesn't support Prop 8 because a 2000 year old book doesn't like gays.
Atheism doesn't rape your children and then hide behind a shield of faith and "religious tolerance"
Edit: Oh, and I love the disclaimer. What is this? Elementary school? If you think the police are going to be interested in your posts, putting that silly garbage on your posts doesn't make you immune to prosecution. Do you still believe the story about undercover cops having to tell you if you ask "Are you a cop?"
OregonMeds
Well-Known Member
If anyone at all, anyone had watched the documentary you'd see it doesn't take sides and you wouldn't question me about it. It also shows a lot of things you think for sure you do know that you don't. I'm an old fucker and I don't rely on just one documentary I've been around I give you this one documentary which best sums up what some of us have been seeing for years.
It's like all the stuff related to the drug war here and in Mexico. If you folks think you are even getting a fraction of the story here (or a fair one) in between Tiger Woods coverage and the underwear bomber you are crazy. It may not always be a conspiracy but in general we don't get balanced fair coverage and there are only seconds to say whatever someone wanted to say about the issue.
They get better news and documentaries even on the BBC. If you have that channel watch that shit and skip Tiger Woods.
Morgen there's even stuff you may not know in that documentary, the scale of abuse today is unbelievable.
It's like all the stuff related to the drug war here and in Mexico. If you folks think you are even getting a fraction of the story here (or a fair one) in between Tiger Woods coverage and the underwear bomber you are crazy. It may not always be a conspiracy but in general we don't get balanced fair coverage and there are only seconds to say whatever someone wanted to say about the issue.
They get better news and documentaries even on the BBC. If you have that channel watch that shit and skip Tiger Woods.
Morgen there's even stuff you may not know in that documentary, the scale of abuse today is unbelievable.
Katatawnic
Well-Known Member
Indeed!Regardless of which side you root for, this is a bad situation for all sides involved with no solution which will make everybody happy.......ever!
These signatures crack me up to no end!
Anyone who thinks these statements are safety nets don't think very much. 
The best one I came across on RIU was a signature saying that everything she posts is real and true to the best of her knowledge; none of it fake. I gave her rep for that alone. 
morgentaler
Well-Known Member
I'll be checking it out eventually. I've just been running movies I've already seen in the background all day and night while I sort though a massive amount of files. I'd miss too much playing it right now
Woodstock.Hippie
New Member
Wow.
Thank god for zionist tv.
Thank god for zionist tv.
doc111
Well-Known Member
You may be an old fart but believe me bro, I take NOTHING at face value. This documentary may not take sides but there is no way possible that it gives the whole story. I'm sorry but to believe that even the best documentary gives you every bit of info on any subject is naive. I'm sure this is a fantastic documentary. Hell I may even watch it when I feel the urge. I've been to the holy land twice. Human beings will fight for this tiny strip of land until judgement day. Neither side is blameless. Both sides have commited atrocities and to say otherwise is foolish. Is one side more to blame than the other? Perhaps. The Israelis have made significant strides in halting settlements and even removing settlers. The palestinians have slowed down the suicide bombings. I doubt it will stay this way however. This is a bad, bad situation and I choose not to take sides. Israel is not going anywhere and the Palestinians need a state. What's the solution?
CrackerJax
New Member
All Israel asks is to be left alone and not be constantly attacked by cowards hiding behind women and children.
The ball is in the Arab court for change, not Israels.
So don't expect a change, cause Arabs aren't good at that.
The ball is in the Arab court for change, not Israels.
So don't expect a change, cause Arabs aren't good at that.
growwwww
Well-Known Member
About propoganda lies... i think you would be the one whos repeating it, i did hikes in the middle east this years summer and went to loads of seminars and shit, some where about peace. Honestly, the whole place is just fucked up. But israelis dont as so, brutally just kill children like you see in the media man, i was there and went through gaza and well...its something i cant really describe on the internet :/ i heard stories from both kinda people, its so fucked up, the problem is these two things. Its the intra-islam conflict, between sunni and shiat or however you spell it, they are both fucking each other over so much, and making it so much harder for israel to do anything, and of course, israel is a racist state ( no doubt ) and thats a major problem. But ye ive realised i cant really continue in any decent debate on this thread because im active at such different hours...when i come to check it its moved on :/
fuck religion