Background checks for gun purchases?

canndo said:

What bans are you talking about? the ban on larger magazines? I have been looking and this issue remains very hot. It remains hot to the point that republicans who conventionaly take a hard line against any gun control at all are softening. This is an indicator. If Obama's plans come to fruition and the rank and file gun owner is not materialy affected then you will see as I have projected, another reductdion in the already waining power of the Republican party - another hard line they have taken that will backfire just as the fiscal cliff fiasco diminished them and just as the debt limit will put them in even more of a mess.

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rooky1985 said:

I am talking about the ban on specific weapons. I am on the fence about limiting magazines, with that said, I do not agree with a radical decrease. A 15rd limit would not affect the current weapon platforms, and would provide a more realistic law than 7 rounds IMO. If you do not own semi-auto weopons then I'm sure it is hard to see how proposterous a 7 round limit is. Would the police be subject to a 7 round limit?

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NLXSK1 said:

Of course not. But again, you cant buy a 20 oz soft drink in NY, why does a 7 round limit surprise you?

I want to know if the Mayor's bodyguards will be limited to 7 round weapons...

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rooky1985 said:

I should not be surprised NY sucks, and you know the answer to question just like I did. I just hope that some of these more "progressive" states do not follow, 7 rounds is just stupid to me. My very first 22 rifle held more than 7.

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canndo said:

Well we certainly agree, you and I have a fundamental right to keep and bear arms, but even that right is, as all other rights, subject to regulation and moderation. That seems to be something that those who, when they think of the Bill of rights, think only of the 2nd, tend to ignore. No rights in the Constitution are absolute and unfettered. What makes anyone believe that the 2nd is an exception?

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canndo said:

I hold that property and ownership trumps that portion of the 2nd.... That, is constitutional to my way of thinking.

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canndo said:

A lot of them contain that sort of language NL

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.

Your right to speech shall not be abridged- and yet there are places you may not speak (like, for instance, in my place of business), you may not incite to violence although language that incites is a part of free speech. Slander is prohibited in speech, liable is prohibited in our freedom of the press. There are limits as to where we can assemble, how many can assemble and how we are to go about expressing our gievances.

Why do so many believe that it is only the 2nd is limitless in the extreme?
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canndo said:

Really? yet many have no qualms about "infringing" on the ability of a woman to obtain an abortion.

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canndo said:

Those who balk at a waiting period of several days in order to purchase a firearm have no problem imposing just such a waiting period on a woman's right to an abortion. There are those who are considerably dismayed when any test or "background check" is proposed in order to obtain a firearm but enthusiastically impose requirements of vaginal ultrasound and other invasive procedures if a woman wants to abort.

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canndo said:

Rights seem to be valuable to some and not so much to others. Liberty itself is a strangely viewed thing.

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canndo said:

THose who hold the 2nd as most sacred see the right to ownership as equal in importance yet they don't see one's right to ownership of one's own body as being of mcuh value at all when it comes to another's right to that same thing.

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canndo said:

Now you are reduced to the same old NRA talking points. What happens with the gun worshipers (I don't label you one by the way) is that they take a cue from a discussion and then switch gears in hopes that the original argument will go away. Nowhere have I advocated the confiscation of all firearms from the American Public. Nowhere have I demeaned gun owners by claiming that they are all hunters or that they have no right to self protection. You have brought in "the polite society" but your argument is seriously flawed by recent events. We are the most heavily armed society in the world and yet, school shootings, kindergarden killings, theater mass killings are not the hallmark of a "polite society".

I find it intersting that the right sides with "disadvantaged women and the elderly" when it comes to arming them but when it comes to feeding them and providing them with reasonable and reasonably priced health care, they can go fend for themselves. Strikes me as a bit disingenuous considering that those classes of folk are far more in danger of malnurishment and easily cured diseases than they are of being in a risky positions where they can shoot themselves out of trouble.

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canndo said:

There are those who are considerably dismayed when any test or "background check" is proposed in order to obtain a firearm but enthusiastically impose requirements of vaginal ultrasound and other invasive procedures if a woman wants to abort.

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canndo said:

AH! YOU are "comfortable" with the banning of fully automatic weapons and grenades. Why? why have you drawn the line at these things? Isn't removing your ability to defend yourself by any means available your constitutional right?

One more thing, I notice you have been keeping on the subject and you are to be commended but you get nearr to the theoretical with your last statement. "figure out a way to reduce crime...". The gun toters tend to switch to the theoretical when things get close to home, when we begin to talk about children's heads and arms being blown off and rather than contend with that reality they opt to speak of "crime". There are many on the left who see this conversation as a way to "reduce violent crime". They are in the wrong argument. These laws have nothing to do with reducing crime or even violent crime in the conventional sense - they cannot. We will not reduce conventional armed assault or the killling of one or two people at a time in passion or greed. What is being talked about here is the reduction of the ability for crazy people to take dozens of lives simply because of the technology that is easily aquireable currently. That is the reality of he national discussion.

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canndo said:

beardo said:

Now how is that so different than my wanting to remove your weapons from you in the interest of preserving the life of someone who otherwise might be shot on her school ground.

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Gun confiscation, now?

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canndo said:

How, exactly do you figure that Obama is "trying to change the 2nd Amendment"?

And I think you will see that the NRA's intransigence and unwillingness to join in attempts to slow this sort of trend will reveal them for what they are - a master lobbying object for the arms industry. This battle will cost them dearly and afford Obama even more political power.

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canndo said:

Nowhere have I advocated the confiscation of all firearms from the American Public.

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canndo said:

Now how is that so different than my wanting to remove your weapons from you in the interest of preserving the life of someone who otherwise might be shot on her school ground.

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canndo said:

We are the most heavily armed society in the world and yet, school shootings, kindergarden killings, theater mass killings are not the hallmark of a "polite society".

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canndo said:

I find it intersting that the right sides with "disadvantaged women and the elderly" when it comes to arming them but when it comes to feeding them and providing them with reasonable and reasonably priced health care, they can go fend for themselves. Strikes me as a bit disingenuous considering that those classes of folk are far more in danger of malnurishment and easily cured diseases than they are of being in a risky positions where they can shoot themselves out of trouble.

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canndo said:

Why is that radical? how about 12 rounds? 23 rounds? 41 rounds? What will a national background check accomplish what are we checking for? How is a limit of a 5 round clip or magazine a violation of your 2nd amendment rights?

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Mr Neutron said:

Because it limits my ability to defend myself against the criminal who has a 6 shot mag.

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canndo said:

a 7 round limit does not conflict with the 2nd Amendment

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