abandonconflict
Well-Known Member
He cherry picked talking points from a Mercatus (Koch funded) study in order to generate this talking point:

Actually that's not what the study concludes at all and he doesn't actually know how much the tax hikes will be. The study actually concludes a very different tale, which is why the media rated his claim as false, not because they're all against him as he claims.
Directly from the Mercatus study:
https://www.mercatus.org/system/files/blahous-costs-medicare-mercatus-working-paper-v1_1.pdf
This is really important to note because Sanders is not the only one who doesn't understand what he is proposing. Most people, including supporters and detractors really have no fucking clue what his bill entails exactly. As the following chart from Kaiser Family Foundation demonstrates, republicans understand what M4A entails slightly better than democrats do, but both groups generally understand the bill very poorly. 39% and 24% respectively understand one of the key components of the bill, that you can not keep your old plan.
https://www.axios.com/medicare-for-...ans-5df3a19a-7b69-4db0-b35c-532057cd9993.html

A key component of M4A is that private insurance will be outlawed.
Most people across the board clearly understand that taxes will increase but there are many ways to interpret this factoid. So now that we've established that Bernie Sanders has been dishonest about it and most people don't understand it, let's get to the unfortunate dearth of absolutely any credible source vouching for Bernie's claims on taxes. All we really have is a list of failed fact checks and opposition sources claiming as well that middle class taxes will be significantly higher than Bernie claims.
I'll use the thread to add to the list of sources for info on what M4A will cost tax payers.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/poli...-versus-kamala-harris-taxes-medicare-for-all/
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/arti...thy-alone-can-t-pay-for-medicare-for-all-plan
https://www.npr.org/2019/07/30/7468...care-for-all-and-middle-class-taxes-explained
https://www.apnews.com/44abd4806d374aeeb60fa89560d1c107
https://edition.cnn.com/2019/02/25/health/what-does-medicare-for-all-mean/index.html
Aside from this list of random, moderate to left leaning sources which are skeptical of Sanders' figures, there is a study from the left leaning, nonprofit Urban Institute:
https://www.urban.org/research/publ...expenditures-and-federal-and-private-spending
It is possible to expand healthcare coverage to every single American and achieve universal healthcare without raising taxes. It's called ACA (Obamacare) and it already resulted in the biggest expansion of coverage yet achieved. Had the GOP not gained complete control of the gov't in 2016 by winning the presidency, the congress and appointing a scotus, everyone would have health insurance right now and premiums would be lower.
The bottom line is this, taxes on the middle class will have to be raised in order to pay for comprehensive coverage with no copays and no deductibles for every single person. It doesn't matter if you prefer to lower your costs by agreeing to deductibles. Single-payer will not allow for that. This is not Medicare for all who want it. This is Medicare for all with no exceptions on tax-payer dime. This is "from each according to how much the government needs, to each whether they want it or not". As we've seen, most people don't understand it and nobody knows the price. Sanders offers a menu of options as to how to pay for it, but even if you take everything on the menu, it only pays for half of a low estimate of the costs.

Actually that's not what the study concludes at all and he doesn't actually know how much the tax hikes will be. The study actually concludes a very different tale, which is why the media rated his claim as false, not because they're all against him as he claims.
Directly from the Mercatus study:
https://www.mercatus.org/system/files/blahous-costs-medicare-mercatus-working-paper-v1_1.pdf
3.26 Trillion is almost exactly what the gov't expects to raise in federal revenue this year. YAY, let's turn all current government spending into deficit spending without knowing where the money will come from. So you might say, who cares if he cherry picked data from a Koch funded study? It does matter. It illustrates that he has no accurate estimate of the cost and accepts the estimates put forward by Blahous in the study, even if he fails to understand them.Abstract
The leading current bill to establish single-payer health insurance, the Medicare for All Act (M4A), would, under conservative estimates, increase federal budget commitments by approximately $32.6 trillion during its first 10 years of full implementation (2022–2031), assuming enactment in 2018. This projected increase in federal healthcare commitments would equal approximately 10.7 percent of GDP in 2022, rising to nearly 12.7 percent of GDP in 2031 and further thereafter. Doubling all currently projected federal individual and corporate income tax collections would be insufficient to finance the added federal costs of the plan. It is likely that the actual cost of M4A would be substantially greater than these estimates, which assume significant administrative and drug cost savings under the plan, and also assume that healthcare providers operating under M4A will be reimbursed at rates more than 40 percent lower than those currently paid by private health insurance.
This is really important to note because Sanders is not the only one who doesn't understand what he is proposing. Most people, including supporters and detractors really have no fucking clue what his bill entails exactly. As the following chart from Kaiser Family Foundation demonstrates, republicans understand what M4A entails slightly better than democrats do, but both groups generally understand the bill very poorly. 39% and 24% respectively understand one of the key components of the bill, that you can not keep your old plan.
https://www.axios.com/medicare-for-...ans-5df3a19a-7b69-4db0-b35c-532057cd9993.html

A key component of M4A is that private insurance will be outlawed.
Most people across the board clearly understand that taxes will increase but there are many ways to interpret this factoid. So now that we've established that Bernie Sanders has been dishonest about it and most people don't understand it, let's get to the unfortunate dearth of absolutely any credible source vouching for Bernie's claims on taxes. All we really have is a list of failed fact checks and opposition sources claiming as well that middle class taxes will be significantly higher than Bernie claims.
I'll use the thread to add to the list of sources for info on what M4A will cost tax payers.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/poli...-versus-kamala-harris-taxes-medicare-for-all/
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/arti...thy-alone-can-t-pay-for-medicare-for-all-plan
https://www.npr.org/2019/07/30/7468...care-for-all-and-middle-class-taxes-explained
https://www.apnews.com/44abd4806d374aeeb60fa89560d1c107
https://edition.cnn.com/2019/02/25/health/what-does-medicare-for-all-mean/index.html
Aside from this list of random, moderate to left leaning sources which are skeptical of Sanders' figures, there is a study from the left leaning, nonprofit Urban Institute:
https://www.urban.org/research/publ...expenditures-and-federal-and-private-spending
Abstract
Presidential candidate Bernie Sanders proposed a single-payer system to replace all current health coverage. His system would cover all medically necessary care, including long-term care, without cost-sharing. We estimate that the approach would decrease the uninsured by 28.3 million people in 2017. National health expenditures would increase by $6.6 trillion between 2017 and 2026, while federal expenditures would increase by $32.0 trillion over that period. Sanders’s revenue proposals, intended to finance all health and nonhealth spending he proposed, would raise $15.3 trillion from 2017 to 2026—thus, the proposed taxes are much too low to fully finance his health plan.
It is possible to expand healthcare coverage to every single American and achieve universal healthcare without raising taxes. It's called ACA (Obamacare) and it already resulted in the biggest expansion of coverage yet achieved. Had the GOP not gained complete control of the gov't in 2016 by winning the presidency, the congress and appointing a scotus, everyone would have health insurance right now and premiums would be lower.
The bottom line is this, taxes on the middle class will have to be raised in order to pay for comprehensive coverage with no copays and no deductibles for every single person. It doesn't matter if you prefer to lower your costs by agreeing to deductibles. Single-payer will not allow for that. This is not Medicare for all who want it. This is Medicare for all with no exceptions on tax-payer dime. This is "from each according to how much the government needs, to each whether they want it or not". As we've seen, most people don't understand it and nobody knows the price. Sanders offers a menu of options as to how to pay for it, but even if you take everything on the menu, it only pays for half of a low estimate of the costs.
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