Biden vs Trump

ttystikk

ttystikk

Well-Known Member
Fogdog said:
Absolutely you should vote for who you most want in the primary. Vote for the person on the ballot you most want in the general election too.

Are you are saying that Trump and any Democrat other than Bernie would affect this country the same?
Click to expand...
I think the country has gone to the right for 40 years, way too long and way too far. Bernie is the one leading the way back towards a reasonable balance. Have you noticed there's no one to his left?
 
Fogdog

Fogdog

Well-Known Member
ttystikk said:
I think the country has gone to the right for 40 years, way too long and way too far. Bernie is the one leading the way back towards a reasonable balance. Have you noticed there's no one to his left?
Click to expand...
You are mistaken. Bernie isn't all that extreme left.

What about Warren? Isn't she left enough for you?
 
Fogdog

Fogdog

Well-Known Member
abandonconflict said:
I don't see what appeal there is to even nominate him. Is it that he can reach across the aisle? Is it that he was Obama's VP? Is it experience?

It's not pragmatic, in my opinion, to simply hope he will flip-flop on every position he's ever held. He has just about the worst history I can imagine for a Dem candidate.
Click to expand...
I think he's going to flame out. He's not even going to flip-flop. He's stuck in the 80's and early 90's when the majority of Democrats were more like him. The party has left him behind. He's not a leader now. There are better candidates than Biden this time. Agree that choosing Biden wouldn't even be a pragmatic choice because he's not the right leader for these times.

Maybe he should run as a Republican. After all, a segregationist didn't call him, an old white guy, "boy". If Republican party had a centrist wing, he'd fit right in.
 
hanimmal

hanimmal

Well-Known Member
abandonconflict said:
I don't see what appeal there is to even nominate him. Is it that he can reach across the aisle? Is it that he was Obama's VP? Is it experience?

It's not pragmatic, in my opinion, to simply hope he will flip-flop on every position he's ever held. He has just about the worst history I can imagine for a Dem candidate.
Click to expand...
With Mitch in place reaching across the isle won't matter. Focusing on a couple 30 year old bills that have mixed results, and putting all of the bad of them on Biden is a reach. If you look over his entire career he has been solid for working class voters and human rights.

Remember again everything swings, Simple president lands us a Intellectual president, since he was black we get a racist president, and since Trump had zero experience, I am hoping the swing this time is to old and heavy experience. Let the 2024 election be the young guns once all the Russian interference crap and whatever wars Trump is heading us towards is somewhat cleaned up and the world has a chance to take a breath.

https://votesmart.org/bill/7553/21018/53279/funding-amendment-to-aids-tuberculosis-and-malaria-bill#.XRS9Ha2ZNE4

Biden Co-sponsored bills: Low income housing energy funding, struck telecoms immunity, support Iraqi government and brand Irans royal guard a terrorist organization, increase time between military deployments, reduce troops in Iraq, remove immunity for countries that fix oil prices, no confidence in Attorney General Alberto Gonzalaz, Amtrak funding for public transportation studies and implementation, screening 100% of cargo containers entering the country, train security, raising minimum wage, $300m to people with flu vaccine injuries, req president to report to congress every 3 months on war in Iraq timelines and strategy, commission on treatment of detainees, Healthcare for vets, removing security clearances if info is given to unauthorized people, displeasure in EPA limits for mercury from smokestacks, increase funding for homeland security, Condemnation of Iraqi prisoner abuse, Prosecuting Hate crime bill, equal protection of voting rights, troop withdraw from Kosovo, Kosovo resolution, drinking and driving for minors, anti-terrorism wiretap expansion, Ryam White CARE reauthorization (aid and HIV funding extension), Boznia and Herzegovina self defense act, California Desert protection act, Prohibit employers from hiring scabs to permanently replace workers on strike, Expanding voter registration, Civil action on price fixing, national education goals and funding, and Family and medical leave.


I was curious about the Juvenile crime bill:
-------------------------------------------------------------
Vote Smart's Synopsis:
Vote to pass a bill that would strengthen penalties for juvenile criminals, establish youth rehabilitation programs and create other programs to reduce youth criminal activity.

Highlights:
  • Authorizes juveniles 14 or older to be tried as adults in federal court if they commit serious violent or drug-related crimes.
  • Subjects a juvenile who is charged as an adult in federal court to the same procedures and penalties as adults, but prohibits sentencing anyone under age 18 to death.
  • Prohibits housing juvenile offenders in the same facilities as adults, but allows certain rural areas with limited juvenile facilities wider latitude in this regard.
  • Authorizes $5 billion over the next five years for programs to prevent juvenile crime, including $450 million in block grants to states for juvenile accountability programs and $435 million for prevention programs.
  • Strengthens penalties for individuals recruiting youths into street gangs.
  • Establishes the National Parenting Support and Education Commission to provide parents with advice on how to keep their children away from crime.
  • Requires mandatory background checks prior to the sale of firearms at gun shows or pawn shops.
  • Increases penalties for possession of firearms by a juvenile, possession of firearms or ammunition on school property, and transfer of weapons or ammunition to a juvenile.
  • Requires child safety devices be sold with all handguns.
  • Prohobits Internet sales of weapons or explosives.
  • Calls for a study of the effect of violence in video games and music on children.---------------------------------------------------------------------
 
Last edited:
abandonconflict

abandonconflict

Well-Known Member
hanimmal said:
Focusing on a couple 30 year old bills that have mixed results, and putting all of the bad of them on Biden is a reach.
Click to expand...
That's your opinion. I disagree, his past is key. It's highly informative and it's had disastrous implications. The leader of a nation does not get a free pass just because tetris was popular when it happened. He certainly does not get a pass just because he was an accomplice as opposed to the ring leader.
 
F

FunCatLady2017

Well-Known Member
Jimdamick said:
Legalization is going to happen in this country.
There's too much tax revenue involved and public support, and that's why NY & NJ are going legal within the year.
Biden ain't going to stop any attempt to legalize, if he did, he would lose support from his enlightened base.
You want Federal change in the marijuana laws, vote Dem next year and take the Senate, win the WH, and it's a done deal.
Click to expand...
And deal with the stacked Supreme Court
 
ttystikk

ttystikk

Well-Known Member
abandonconflict said:
That's your opinion. I disagree, his past is key. It's highly informative and it's had disastrous implications. The leader of a nation does not get a free pass just because tetris was popular when it happened. He certainly does not get a pass just because he was an accomplice as opposed to the ring leader.
Click to expand...
Biden is the Trump of the Democratic Party. Fuck him.
 
hanimmal

hanimmal

Well-Known Member
abandonconflict said:
That's your opinion. I disagree, his past is key. It's highly informative and it's had disastrous implications. The leader of a nation does not get a free pass just because tetris was popular when it happened. He certainly does not get a pass just because he was an accomplice as opposed to the ring leader.
Click to expand...
Did you look at the rest of his so-sponsor record? Ill do it again here incase:

Biden Co-sponsored bills: Low income housing energy funding, struck telecoms immunity, support Iraqi government and brand Irans royal guard a terrorist organization, increase time between military deployments, reduce troops in Iraq, remove immunity for countries that fix oil prices, no confidence in Attorney General Alberto Gonzalaz, Amtrak funding for public transportation studies and implementation, screening 100% of cargo containers entering the country, train security, raising minimum wage, $300m to people with flu vaccine injuries, req president to report to congress every 3 months on war in Iraq timelines and strategy, commission on treatment of detainees, Healthcare for vets, removing security clearances if info is given to unauthorized people, displeasure in EPA limits for mercury from smokestacks, increase funding for homeland security, Condemnation of Iraqi prisoner abuse, Prosecuting Hate crime bill, equal protection of voting rights, troop withdraw from Kosovo, Kosovo resolution, drinking and driving for minors, anti-terrorism wiretap expansion, Ryam White CARE reauthorization (aid and HIV funding extension), Boznia and Herzegovina self defense act, California Desert protection act, Prohibit employers from hiring scabs to permanently replace workers on strike, Expanding voter registration, Civil action on price fixing, national education goals and funding, and Family and medical leave.

How does none of this count as his past?
 
F

FunCatLady2017

Well-Known Member
Unclebaldrick said:
All good fantasies.

But you know they are missing the point don't you? This isn't something that is there because Trimp is. Goodness knows the man himself can't inspire people in the way that has happened. this is much bigger and not remotely limited to America. For fuck's sake, yesterday the Australian people re-elected their version of Trimp. Not long ago Brazil elected one of the most odious leaders imaginable. There is a wave of fascism sweeping the globe.

My point is, doing away with one asshole isn't going to do anything. The world is full of assholes (from both the right and left) and if people want them elected, there will always be another to take that spot.

We're only going to beat this by keeping our head and voting them out; one by one.

The big question is, do you throw a socialist into the election as your best chance or do you seek moderate goals and a moderate candidate? The election in Australia suggests that the latter would have been a better choice.

My own opinion is that throwing a candidate in against Trimp that is too left is going to be exactly what Trimp's minions want is to do and will increase their chances of winning substantially. Every sign says that the majority of the electorate does not support it regardless of the rantings of certain very deluded and entirely inconsequential people.

But it doesn't really matter. There will be primaries and from this process there will be a pair of candidates. Whoever the Democratic party chooses, I will support them with all my heart and devote every hour I can spare to see that they are elected - no matter who they are and regardless of whether I supported them in the primaries. I will not vote for, nor support a third party candidate under any reasonable circumstances. This shit is real.
Click to expand...
Well said.
I would prefer a younger President as well. Biden and Sanders, Trump and Clinton are too old - we need some new blood.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top