Borbor's Perpetual Journal

ttystikk said:
Quick rundown on bugs in Colorado; go outside in the summer and look at some dandelions and bindweed. Dandelions are covered in spidermites and bindweed is white with PM. GUARANTEED.
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Damnm..that bad out there huh? My cousin had a bush outside covered in mites almost all year long. It would be COVERED with webs and all in the middle of summer. She would do all she could with the room to kill them bastards and sure as shit they would pop back up about every 3 or 4 weeks like clockwork. They were getting in somehow (it dont take much). She pulled the bush up and out the front yard....mites never came back in the room.
 
ttystikk said:
LOL, I love how they listed sodium bicarbonate as an inert ingredient. Green Cure is better because it's POTASSIUM bicarbonate, much better for your plants than sodium.
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since1991 said:
Unfortunately pm is inside the plant. Its systemic. Only a systemic fungicide like Eagle 20 ( not recommended- its nasty) will get rid of it in my experience. Greencure or potassium carbonate makes a great preventative dunk for small rooted plants but everytime i tried green cure the spots kept coming back after awhile. The actual pm spots are the fruiting bodies of what is actually "anchored" in the vascular system of the plant. You can keep it at bay with alot of remedies though. If you got something rare i would take small cuts....try and root them regular ways and use a systemic fungicide (hopefullly something not as nasty as eagle 20) on them. Grow them out real nice....take clean cuts off these ans throw the fungicide ones away.....clean cuts to start (mostly)...i saved my sour og about 5 years ago doing this.
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Probably about to go grab some green cure
@since1991 how would I know if a product is a systemic fungicide? I'm seeing that few are marketed that way.
 
Should be labeled. Take note that most systemic fungicides arent exactly meant for ingested or edible crops. The ones ive looked into (eagle20 )are pretty damn nasty chemical wise. Products like eagle 20 are really meant for like turf fungus problems. Golf course maintenance use and what not.
 
ttystikk said:
Quick rundown on bugs in Colorado; go outside in the summer and look at some dandelions and bindweed. Dandelions are covered in spidermites and bindweed is white with PM. GUARANTEED.
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One thing I haven't seen, nor want to see are spidermites. PM is bad though, you must be humid like here, we have year round humidity, rotting/mouldy leaves and melting snow, perfect breeding ground for PM in the spring.
 
Some of my really bad pm break outs were in rooms with low rh. Getting infected cuts you dont know about and wild inconsistent swings in room environment (temps and humidity night and day) and over fert (nitrogen) is how it happens.
 
GroErr said:
One thing I haven't seen, nor want to see are spidermites. PM is bad though, you must be humid like here, we have year round humidity, rotting/mouldy leaves and melting snow, perfect breeding ground for PM in the spring.
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since1991 said:
Some of my really bad pm break outs were in rooms with low rh. Getting infected cuts you dont know about and wild inconsistent swings in room environment (temps and humidity night and day) and over fert (nitrogen) is how it happens.
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I have a hard time getting my RH above 20%. I have a swamp cooler I might use at some point, but I don't like that idea at all, I'd rather have low RH than high. I'm confused though, @since1991 do you have any idea why you had worse PM problems in lower RH?
and by big inconsistent temp swings, do you mean big changes in room temp from night and day in general, or just changes where the amount of variation itself actually varies?
I've had a lot of success with night temps around 60 and day temps around 77. Harder to control in a garage, workin' on it though.


@GroErr I'm looking on amazon and grow websites and stuff for some kind of UVC treatment for my intake duct. I don't get how most of these units would actually be installed, will they all fit in any size duct? how do you install it and where physically in the duct?
Here's what I'm looking at, pretty much ready to hit the order button if I know it'll be usable, but it doesn't say anything about diameter or anything like that.
http://www.amazon.com/Bio-Shield-UV...TF8&qid=1458185874&sr=8-4&keywords=uv+c+light
 
borbor said:
@GroErr I'm looking on amazon and grow websites and stuff for some kind of UVC treatment for my intake duct. I don't get how most of these units would actually be installed, will they all fit in any size duct? how do you install it and where physically in the duct?
Here's what I'm looking at, pretty much ready to hit the order button if I know it'll be usable, but it doesn't say anything about diameter or anything like that.
http://www.amazon.com/Bio-Shield-UV...TF8&qid=1458185874&sr=8-4&keywords=uv+c+light
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Those are a similar tech but meant to be installed inline with your HVAC intake so air passes by them as its sucking air into the furnace/air conditioner. They might work if you could fit and power one inside your intake vent. Might be worth trying to maguiver it into your intake. Only problem I see with something like this is it's blowing the scrubbed air into your room which is good, but it's not scrubbing the air inside your room. Not sure how effective it would be.
 
GroErr said:
Those are a similar tech but meant to be installed inline with your HVAC intake so air passes by them as its sucking air into the furnace/air conditioner. They might work if you could fit and power one inside your intake vent. Might be worth trying to maguiver it into your intake. Only problem I see with something like this is it's blowing the scrubbed air into your room which is good, but it's not scrubbing the air inside your room. Not sure how effective it would be.
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I have no furnace/ ac, just my ducting, from the outside to the garage and the garage out, is this a decent setup for that?
 
borbor said:
I have no furnace/ ac, just my ducting, from the outside to the garage and the garage out, is this a decent setup for that?
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If your only source of fresh air is outdoor air (which has been established can suck in PM since you have PM outdoor), then you might be better off with a carbon filter on the incoming air and some form of scrubber inside the room. Or a furnace filter or the like on the intake and an air filtration unit inside the room. You could try one of those UV inline units before or after some form of filter on the intake.

The only problem I see with relying only on only scrubbing the air (UV or carbon filter) coming in through your intake is that you can easily bring spores in on your clothes/shoes which would establish PM inside the room. Without a HEPA or UV air cleaner inside the room you'd still be susceptible to getting it on your plants.

Edit: Reason I say this is I was doing the same thing when I initially got PM, that is I was bringing air in from outside before I tied into my HVAC for fresh air. Even brining fresh air from my HVAC which is filtered, it's hit me. Which to me means the PM gets in there regardless of the source of fresh/scrubbed air.
 
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Another problem ive found with intake vents with fans.....for air cooled hoods or the room itself....is its hard as hell to cool witb an intake vent when the air your bringing in is warmer than the air being exhausted and vented back out. That was my main problem for years. You cant cool a growroom with ventilation alone in july august or when its 85 - 90+ degrees outside. Not gonna happen. This applies to relative humidity too. Temps and rh are at the mercy of the seasons in traditional ventilated growrooms with intake and outake fans and near constant exchange. Not too mention co2 is not happening. Air cooled hoods....your best not even pulling air from outside beacause its not cooling shit....much less a hot bulb. Man i ised to beat myself up in the warmer months with vented rooms. Winter and fall was much easier to grow buds. Ive went sealed a few years back....and ive never looked back. Its spendy....runnin appliances for climate control....but the piece of mind and consistent climate which translated into higher yield is well worth it.
 
since1991 said:
Another problem ive found with intake vents with fans.....for air cooled hoods or the room itself....is its hard as hell to cool witb an intake vent when the air your bringing in is warmer than the air being exhausted and vented back out. That was my main problem for years. You cant cool a growroom with ventilation alone in july august or when its 85 - 90+ degrees outside. Not gonna happen. This applies to relative humidity too. Temps and rh are at the mercy of the seasons in traditional ventilated growrooms with intake and outake fans and near constant exchange. Not too mention co2 is not happening. Air cooled hoods....your best not even pulling air from outside beacause its not cooling shit....much less a hot bulb. Man i ised to beat myself up in the warmer months with vented rooms. Winter and fall was much easier to grow buds. Ive went sealed a few years back....and ive never looked back. Its spendy....runnin appliances for climate control....but the piece of mind and consistent climate which translated into higher yield is well worth it.
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This is Colorado; even in summer you can pull air in from outside at night and know it will be cool enough. And as for RH, the only time it climbs past 50% is when it's actually raining.
 
Yeah....having a vented room all year long with no appliances except maybe a heater for lights off largely depends on where on this planet you live. Iam in Flint Michigan....vents need closing and ac kicked on in the warm humid months depending on hid wattage....air cooled or not. So i switched to sealed room. I actually have intake and exhausts but i only use the intake (its up high) to blow in cold and dry november to march air into the room. Saves me coin on running mini split. I thought it retarded to run mini split when its -15 degrees and 2 feet of snow on the ground. But rest of the year...intake is closed up tight and mini split takes over. My exhaust fan has auto louvers that kick on every 2 hours for 7 minutes lights off only 365 days a year. This helps get co2 gas out at night time. I also lose dehumidified conditioned air but its negligible and only lights out. So iam vented for night and winter months only. It works. I can really controll environment climate by single temp and rh digits.
 
since1991 said:
Another problem ive found with intake vents with fans.....for air cooled hoods or the room itself....is its hard as hell to cool witb an intake vent when the air your bringing in is warmer than the air being exhausted and vented back out. That was my main problem for years. You cant cool a growroom with ventilation alone in july august or when its 85 - 90+ degrees outside. Not gonna happen. This applies to relative humidity too. Temps and rh are at the mercy of the seasons in traditional ventilated growrooms with intake and outake fans and near constant exchange. Not too mention co2 is not happening. Air cooled hoods....your best not even pulling air from outside beacause its not cooling shit....much less a hot bulb. Man i ised to beat myself up in the warmer months with vented rooms. Winter and fall was much easier to grow buds. Ive went sealed a few years back....and ive never looked back. Its spendy....runnin appliances for climate control....but the piece of mind and consistent climate which translated into higher yield is well worth it.
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When I first started growing indoor I thought it would be a no brainer, I had no clue how important it would be to maintain the right environment. My large outdoor grows were well north of where I live now and PM wasn't an issue there. Once I went through the first 6 months I trashed everything including my (naïve) thinking on the environment and built a proper room, including the effort/time to tie into my HVAC for air. At that point I took an oath to either do it right or not bother, whatever it takes to maintain the environment at whatever cost. Within reason of some return but at less than $1.00/gram I can afford to run extra equipment if that's what it takes to maintain the environment. If I hadn't been able to tie into my HVAC I would have put in a mini-split.
 
Yep. Ive spent thousands upon thousands on equipment over the years only to let it sit in a corner or sold for way cheap to get where iam at now. If it wasnt for the web i would of never of thought if mini splits and sante fe dehueys and sealed rooms. All the old outdated books were all about vented rooms...they had to be. Dont even think mini splits were invented yet (mitsubishi???). And they worked fine for eurpopean growers with thier climate. In michigan temps and humidity swing drastically either way. I spent alot of mistake money on shit i thought would work only to find it didnt. Overgrow.com was where i earned my bones and really started to get seriuos. Before that it was a few 400 or 1000 watters in a dirty basement or room. Climate control was them cheesy Green Air humidistats and themostats hooked to squirrel cage pole blowers...lol. I had co2 on a timer and swore i saw a difference....not. Just wasting tank upon tank.
 
Would be growers that listen to experinced people on the web have it so much easier and cheaper....way cheaper. If they listen to what they are being told nowadays they can buy the right equipment the first time and save literally thousands. Back in the day it was trial and error...and expensive doing it.
 
since1991 said:
Would be growers that listen to experinced people on the web have it so much easier and cheaper....way cheaper. If they listen to what they are being told nowadays they can buy the right equipment the first time and save literally thousands. Back in the day it was trial and error...and expensive doing it.
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I have the same massive pile of detritus left over from 'upgrades', although in my case it really IS about finding a better way to grow indoors.

I've spent thousands of dollars on just one piece of equipment that turned out to be useless.

I've also spent pennies on the dollar to solve intractable problems, just by approaching the situation differently; waterfalls vs airstones, for example.

I've learned a lot along the way, enough to say that I'm ready to introduce a line of equipment and supplies that will so outperform the current state of the art that I'll render it obsolete.
 
since1991 said:
Would be growers that listen to experinced people on the web have it so much easier and cheaper....way cheaper. If they listen to what they are being told nowadays they can buy the right equipment the first time and save literally thousands. Back in the day it was trial and error...and expensive doing it.
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Yep, I was one of those coming in from outdoor thinking I knew everything when in fact I knew shit in retrospect. I did do a ton of reading and picked up some invaluable tips, but still did some dumb ass stuff because although I listen, I do tend to try things for myself, even if I know there's risk of failure. I still have that pile of things that didn't work but most of any extra equipment around is from trying new stuff. I get bored easy, and I pay for it, but that's Ok, it's a hobby which I love doing and more than pays for itself, not many hobbies like that around ;)
 
Growing outdoors is alot of initial work but once they are growing its all set. Plantking and harvesting....and routine checkup in between thats the work. But indoors...wow its so much of the little things you got to be on top of. And they add up and compound.
 
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