Bubblelicious, New York Power Diesel, and Super Skunk in DWC

smokingrubber

smokingrubber

Well-Known Member
I have two oscillating fans on opposite sides of my tent. No matter what I did, it seemed like the fans were always facing right at each other. I kept trying to unplug one to get it to run opposing cycles. I need the air to circulate, not just meet in the middle.

I finnaly figured out that one fan has to be running faster than the other. That kept the wind swirling instead of just pushing back and forth. It seems to be pimp now. Just my .02.

Now I'll read the rest of your post above sorry.
 
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Bob Smith

Well-Known Member
smokingrubber said:
I have two oscillating fans on opposite sides of my tent. No matter what I did, it seemed like the fans were always facing right at each other. I kept trying to unplug one to get it to run opposing cycles. I need the air to circulate, not just meet in the middle.

I finnaly figured out that one fan has to be running faster than the other. That kept the wind swirling instead of just pushing back and forth. It seems to be pimp now. Just my .02.

Now I'll read the rest of your post above sorry.
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Makes sense, thanks - maybe I'll just run one fan at "3" and one at "1", or something like that - need to get the tent setup sooner rather then later, been kinda dragging my feet on that.

For anyone interested, crunched some numbers regarding horizontal vs. vertical, and they're below:

The Coliseum Growing System is 67" wide by 93" tall.

Using those dimensions for a flat grow (comes to 43.3 square feet), and using a baseline watts/square foot of 62.5 (2 1Ks covering an 8x4 area), it would require 2700 watts to light that footprint. For simplicity's sake, we'll call it 45 feet and 3000 watts, just to work with round numbers.

Still with me? Good.....

So, the full-sized Coliseum is designed to be operated with 3000 watts.

Using that same footprint, the Coliseum has an effective growing square footage of 185 square feet, or more then 4X as much as a horizontal garden (I crunched these numbers myself, but the formula for the surface area of a cyllinder is [(2*pi*r^2)+(2*pi*r*h)] for anyone who'd like to double-check me).

So, instead of a 7x7 footprint (round numbers, the equivalent of 45 square feet), that 3000 watts is now effectively covering a 14x14 footprint!!!

And if anything, the canopy management is easier with a vertical, because EVERY plant is equidistant from the light source, and generally closer to the light source then they would be in a flat garden.

Add in the fact of close to 0% of the light being wasted, and it just makes sense.

The only downside, IMO, is the DIY aspect that I'm going to have to perform (and the plant counts, but I'm gonna be over 100 plants no matter what I do), but I think I can handle it - just building a wooden frame and then glueing some PVC together. The real issue is gonna be the design work, but I'm confident in myself.

Even though the startup time and effort is probably going to be enormous, this just makes too much mathematical sense for my brain to not do it.

Soooooooooooo.....................anyone have any quick and dirty tutorials for using Google Sketchup?
 
smokingrubber

smokingrubber

Well-Known Member
I'm not even stoned and that hurt my brain. You're going to have to be the guinne pig on this one. I will watch, and I'm here if you need moral support.
 
statik

statik

Well-Known Member
Yeah Bob, I see your point on the figures here. I am with SmokingRubber though, Im just going to watch you do this, I don't have the money to throw around and "experiment" like you do.

2+G's/w is NICE. Hell, 1g/w is good! Hoping I get that, 600 grams would be great! I am thinking I get less than a pound though with all the stress they went through.. 3/4's is my guess when all said and done.
 
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DaGambler

Well-Known Member
There's a lot of heat and contention on this point... but vertical sq. footage is not equivalent to horizontal sq. footage. Horizontal buds (flat sog gardens) tend to have bigger buds. Vertical gardens tend to be more work not only in the setup but also the upkeep... such as tying and bending and such. Vertical gardens may also take longer to veg. them into the proper configuration... such that the longer veg. time eats into what could be flower time for the next horizontal crop. I'd study the results that several persons have had in attempting vert. grows before going into the bi-level octagon business. Now... growing trees... with like one HPS bulb per plant... is a different kind of vertical growing all-together, but i don't think that's what you were talking about. Most of the vert grows that i have followed have had dissapointing results that were equivalent, at best, to a horizontal grows yield (much less work) in the same time period.
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DaGambler

Well-Known Member
Bob Smith said:
Biggest Issues (in order of magnitude):

1) Height/canopy management - no need to rehash what the issues were, but this just fucking killed me - the lack of being able to rotate plants made three of them not even worth trimming because the buds were so airy, and another several where I probably only got 4-8 grams off of.

4) Not changing my reservoir for three months - although I have no idea what magnitude this might've played in my pitiful harvest, I'd be shocked if this didn't cost me a couple of ounces (prolly more). A subset of this would be not calibrating my pH meter for a while, and being off by .5 for a few weeks, which led to some nute lockout/uptake issues...
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1) this'll happen when you've got too many plants fighting for the same light and crowding/blocking eachother out... this is why i would never recommend running more than one plant per square foot... and would actually recommend running slightly less than that. Last time i ran over 200 plants i literally tossed several whole plants because there was nothing on them worth keeping... when running 1/4 that many plants the least that i have pulled this crop is over 2 oz. per plant... and some have yeilded more than 4 oz. per plant at around 1 1/2 sq. ft. per plant.

4) if your experience was anything like what i have seen in the past... i don't doubt that not changing your rez at least every 2 weeks could have cost you at least -half- your potential harvest weight.
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Bob Smith

Well-Known Member
Didn't want anyone to spit their sodas out when you read that I only pulled 5 ounces and some change.

There, I said it, it's over and done with; that's in the past, now time to deal with the present and future.

So, had to deal with a couple of mini-fires yesterday that I thought were disastrous, but don't seem as bad now.

Firstly, thought the clones had powdery mildew - was freaking out, going nutso, and then realized that the spots I saw on some clones were a result of the weird spray I had hit them wtih (combination of 500PPMs of nutes and some fungicide/insecticide/miticide that I have), and some natural necrosis on the edges of the leaves I had cut.

Anyways, took out some of the weaker looking clones, and re-cut another 10-15 clones as replacements for them, but the new cuts are taller and thicker then the rest, giving them a headstart as they're 8 days behind in rooting.

So, the second issue was that as I was cutting the clones, the power in the garage went out. Figure I'd tripped the breaker (although I wasn't sure how), and went inside to check the circuit box, but the breaker hadn't tripped.

Tried (what I thought at that time) was one of the new circuits, and there was no power out of that, either, but there was power out of the third circuit (another new one).

Long story short (too late for that, my bads), it seems that something tripped the GFCI on the original garage line, and what I thought was a "new" circuit was really the old one.

Was tweaking because 20 amps wouldn't have been enough for me, but with 40 amps I'll be fine getting through this next grow.

BTW, would have taken pics, but we had a freak blizzard here in LA, and there's 2 feet of snow on the ground.
 
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Bob Smith

Well-Known Member
I've got ten seedlings going right now, and they're all showing preflowers (have not decided which are males yet, but I will ASAP).

Anyways, I'm still doing 144 in the flower tent, and 72 up top in the veg tent, and planning on making them seedless and "A" quality smokeable weed.

However, figured that since I was only planning on flowering the plants under the fluoros for hash and kief purposes (buds will be airy and not worth anything), figured I might as well fuck around and try my hand at making seeds, no?

Gonna take the most vigorous male (maybe two or three, if their growth and traits warrant it, but I'm not planning on just using any old male for this project - would like quality seeds) and breed him with every strain that I have, should it make sense.

Just figured I'd give you guys the heads up.
 
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Bob Smith

Well-Known Member
smokingrubber said:
I'm not even stoned and that hurt my brain. You're going to have to be the guinne pig on this one. I will watch, and I'm here if you need moral support.
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Appreciate the support :joint:

Yeah Bob, I see your point on the figures here. I am with SmokingRubber though, Im just going to watch you do this, I don't have the money to throw around and "experiment" like you do.
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Where's your sense of adventure? :bigjoint:

There's a lot of heat and contention on this point... but vertical sq. footage is not equivalent to horizontal sq. footage. Horizontal buds (flat sog gardens) tend to have bigger buds. Vertical gardens tend to be more work not only in the setup but also the upkeep... such as tying and bending and such. Vertical gardens may also take longer to veg. them into the proper configuration... such that the longer veg. time eats into what could be flower time for the next horizontal crop. I'd study the results that several persons have had in attempting vert. grows before going into the bi-level octagon business.
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Definitely been doing my research and going back and forth, but I'm pretty sure I'm gonna do it - you only live once, you know? :lol:

1) this'll happen when you've got too many plants fighting for the same light and crowding/blocking eachother out
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Yeah, overcrowding does cause stretching, but that wasn't my issue - that was just purely flowering too late - they were 1.5' and I only had 3' from reflector to tray.

4) if your experience was anything like what i have seen in the past... i don't doubt that not changing your rez at least every 2 weeks could have cost you at least -half- your potential harvest weight.
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Yeah, gonna change every two weeks religiously this round.

Bob, check out one of these to show off your babies with. It's a USB microscope.

http://www.420scope.com/usb_scope.html
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Pretty cool little novelty item, but I've never looked at trichomes before.

Maybe I'll grab one, though, who knows.
 
statik

statik

Well-Known Member
Fuck Bob, glad that blizzard missed SD! I hate it when the power goes out man, its one of the few things that literally drives me crazy cause there is NOTHING I can do. I cant run a gen where I am at, waaaay to much attention (even if I am legal).

5 OZ's? I should have taken that $5k bet...damnit! lmao..we shall see Bob...I have had my fair share of issues this run as well. So I know my harvest is going to be sub-par. How many days did you actually flower for? I am thinking I am not going over 10 weeks, I have clones that are gonna be hella root bound by then.
 
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Bob Smith

Well-Known Member
statik said:
Fuck Bob, glad that blizzard missed SD! I hate it when the power goes out man, its one of the few things that literally drives me crazy cause there is NOTHING I can do. I cant run a gen where I am at, waaaay to much attention (even if I am legal).

5 OZ's? I should have taken that $5k bet...damnit! lmao..we shall see Bob...I have had my fair share of issues this run as well. So I know my harvest is going to be sub-par. How many days did you actually flower for? I am thinking I am not going over 10 weeks, I have clones that are gonna be hella root bound by then.
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Yeah, I don't really consider that run to be very indicative of what I'm going to be doing going forward, but it was certainly a laughable harvest.

And it wasn't the snow that made the power go out (house didn't lose power at all) - I think what happened is that some water spilled onto a surge protector, which caused the GFCI to trip - that's only what I've figured out by Googling why the power would go out without tripping the breaker, and it's the best thing that I can think of.

Even if I can't figure out how to reset the GFCI, I have two other 20 amp circuits available to me, so I'm fine on power - was worried for a minute because I thought I was down to one 20amp circuit, but I'll be fine with two.

Oh, and I flowered for 62 days.

BTW, for any of those interested in my vertical design progress, am now leaning towards building one of these, but making it 50% larger (3 600s in it, and 84 plant sites).

http://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=17863

 
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Bob Smith

Well-Known Member
smokingrubber said:
And you're going to start breeding your own seeds???? You're sick with it. You might need a 12 step program ... I think oaksterdam offers them.
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Lol..........figured with my .15 grams/watt from my harvest, I've basically conquered everything that horizontal growing has to offer, so I need to expand my horizons :hump:

And yeah, figured I'm never gonna flower under fluoros again, so since I was just gonna use those buds as bubble hash material, might as well give breeding a shot, no?

you go Bob!:bigjoint:
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We'll see how it "goes" once I actually need to put this fucker together - seems easy enough though, no? The guy already did the measuring for me, it's just plopping down $600 to $800 for materials.

Also planning on utilizing a light mover in there.........should be interesting.
 
statik

statik

Well-Known Member
Bob Smith said:
it wasn't the snow that made the power go out (house didn't lose power at all) - I think what happened is that some water spilled onto a surge protector, which caused the GFCI to trip - that's only what I've figured out by Googling why the power would go out without tripping the breaker, and it's the best thing that I can think of.

Even if I can't figure out how to reset the GFCI, I have two other 20 amp circuits available to me, so I'm fine on power - was worried for a minute because I thought I was down to one 20amp circuit, but I'll be fine with two.
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Water+Electricity= Bad

Lucky that all you did was pop a GFCI. You could have become a cooked Ka-Bob. :o
 
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Bob Smith

Well-Known Member
cazador said:
more info, please. up/down?

and Bob, water and power strips don't mix! get them off the floor, please.
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It actually wasn't on the floor - it's mounted on the stand for the top tray - was being sloppy and pulling plants out as the flood cycle was going, so they were sopping wet and some of that water got into the surge protector.

As far as the light mover idea, it'd be moving the lights up and down inside of the octagon, but by utilizing a horizontal light mover.

Kinda hard to explain, but a pretty simple concept - there'd be a "hook" above the lights directly in the middle where the cords are hanging down from, and then the light mover would be pulling the cords horizontally, which would move them vertically from the "hook" point.

Would just need to put some velvet or something around the rubber of the cords so that they'd slide easily over the hook.
 
cazador

cazador

Active Member
Bob Smith said:
It actually wasn't on the floor - it's mounted on the stand for the top tray - was being sloppy and pulling plants out as the flood cycle was going, so they were sopping wet and some of that water got into the surge protector.

As far as the light mover idea, it'd be moving the lights up and down inside of the octagon, but by utilizing a horizontal light mover.

Kinda hard to explain, but a pretty simple concept - there'd be a "hook" above the lights directly in the middle where the cords are hanging down from, and then the light mover would be pulling the cords horizontally, which would move them vertically from the "hook" point.

Would just need to put some velvet or something around the rubber of the cords so that they'd slide easily over the hook.
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I think it's a great idea, so I'm not trying to poke holes in it... moving a light horizontally takes a lot less effort than lowering and lifting. What mover are you looking at using? or are you making one?
 
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Bob Smith

Well-Known Member
cazador said:
I think it's a great idea, so I'm not trying to poke holes in it... moving a light horizontally takes a lot less effort than lowering and lifting. What mover are you looking at using? or are you making one?
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Please, poke away - that's the point of the interaction, my friend :-P

As far as the extra effort, the light movers are designed to hang 25-30 pound reflectors and move those, so I'd "think" (FWIW) that it could pretty easily move just hanging bulbs up and down.

In vertical there are no reflectors, so it'd simply be three hanging bulbs, which are pretty light.

And you KNOW my ass isn't gonna make a light mover, kiddo - looking around for some that are adjustable, as I'd only need about 2-3 feet (if that) of horizontal/vertical movement.

Need one that can move that small of an amount, but can still pause at each end (might be doable with any light mover on the market, I've just never used them so don't know if it is).
 
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