cal-mag deficiencies or something else?

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THCchef

Active Member
I think i might have a cal-mag deficiency or possible onset of nute burn. . Watered yesterday with a 1/2tsp of each of the 3bottle general hydroponic fert system plus 1/2tsp of cal-mag to 1/2 gallon of rain water.i noticed the problem a couple days ago but it has now spread to new growth. I have a 4x2x4 tent with 3-200 WATT 6400k equivalent CFL. Temps are always consistent at 77F
And humidity always around 40%. I run an 240cfm inline exhaust fan and two desk fans circulating inside air. Also a 1 gallon CO2 generator. The taller plants were transplant about a week ago and the smaller plants about four days ago. All are about two weeks old from seed. Thanks for all the advice
 

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I tested it at 7. So the water should be good to go. wonder if I need to let them dry out then flush them out good
 
Well since you mentioned the dry out thing. I will say that overwatering did come to my mind. They leaves look saturated.
 
It doesn't look like nute burn, it looks like calcium and iron. Calmag should work because it has calcium nitrate and chelated iron:

Guaranteed Analysis:

  • Total Nitrogen (N): 2.0%, 2.0% Nitrate Nitrogen
  • Calcium (Ca): 3.2%
  • Magnesium (Mg): 1.2%, 1.2% Water Soluble Magnesium (Mg)
  • Iron (Fe): 0.1%, 0.1% Chelated Iron (Fe)
Derived from: Calcium Nitrate, Magnesium Nitrate, Iron EDTA

But keep in mind that you'll be adding nitrates. Alternately, you could just go buy calcium nitrate and iron chelates as standalone nutes at cropking, but not many people seem to do that.
 
Yes, don't feed anything else for now. Just remember that the calmag could cause nitrogen toxicity if you use too much.
 
THCchef said:
I'm going to give them a good plain water flush After they dry out. see if that cleans them out
Click to expand...
And once you do that, stop adding chem nutrients chelated with salts. This is causing nutrient lock in your fox farm soil. Use Organic amendments certified OMRI. If you going grow in soil at least don't kill of the micro herd in the soil.

At this point with your flush you may get it stabilized But quickly get some mycro fungi, good bags of OMRI organic soil with mycro fungi and cloth pot for air pruning of roots which will develop a denser root system. Ensure root ball of plant touches added mycro fungi. Water. Then learn about how to spike your soil with organic OMRI amendments that will meet your plants needs in veg or flower. Spikes are about premix organic amendments for certain nutrient needs. I dowel is used to bore a 1/4 to 1/2 hole down to about an inch above bottom and pour in your amendment mix. That's a spike and do it on the outer edge of the plants. This is part of TLO True Living Organic by the REV of Skunk Mag. Anywise if your growing in soil stop pouring chem nutrients chelated with salts into the soil and use all natural organic amendments to produce a bio-sphere in the soil that where health fungi and bacteria live and process nutrients in soil into a readily available source of nutrition for our babies.

Also more light, I see 7 plants and three lights, each plant should have 100w min CLF 6500 for veg.
 
churchhaze said:
It doesn't look like nute burn, it looks like calcium and iron. Calmag should work because it has calcium nitrate and chelated iron:

Guaranteed Analysis:

  • Total Nitrogen (N): 2.0%, 2.0% Nitrate Nitrogen
  • Calcium (Ca): 3.2%
  • Magnesium (Mg): 1.2%, 1.2% Water Soluble Magnesium (Mg)
  • Iron (Fe): 0.1%, 0.1% Chelated Iron (Fe)
Derived from: Calcium Nitrate, Magnesium Nitrate, Iron EDTA

But keep in mind that you'll be adding nitrates. Alternately, you could just go buy calcium nitrate and iron chelates as standalone nutes at cropking, but not many people seem to do that.
Click to expand...
URGH! Stop adding synthesized salts to your soil, go hyrdo if your gonna soup feed your plants. Adding these chemical nutrients to soil seriously whacks the PH down in the medium. Results are after killing the micro herd supplying natural nutrients that were in your soil, now the soil (medium) ph is screwed thus making your soup of nutes ineffective as well. It just does not make sense to use soil as your medium if your A. going to kill off the micro life that will feed and sustain your plants. B. Use a medium that will be hard to maintain the proper PH. If your going to use soil please don't turn it into a hyrdo medium, that is not what it's designed for.

Anything that has EDTA is sure indicator of synthetic salts which are non organic and do not play well in soil
 
I kind of agree with you on this, but you have to remember that most people come to his help section with the nutrients they insisted on buying and using. It's very hard to steer them away, especially when they already spent their money. For a proper soil grow, calcium shouldn't be provided using calcium nitrate as in calmag, it should be provided with the correct level of lime. Nitrate feeding should be kept to a minimum with soil grows while instead feeding with organic matter containing NH4+. Calcium nitrate is the main provider of nitrate in a hydro solution, so I agree with you 100% that it shouldn't be used in soil.

I don't agree with the EDTA part at all. I think you don't really understand what chelation is. Chelated minerals certainly don't hurt microorganisms, it's just a way to make iron more soluble in water and available to the plant.

I agree you shouldn't turn soil into a non-organic medium, but aside from nitrogen, most everything else in nature is provided by inorganic substances like ash, lime, rust, and even rock phosphate for P, etc as well as organic sources like composted feces and dead organisms.

DANKSWAG said:
URGH! Stop adding synthesized salts to your soil, go hyrdo if your gonna soup feed your plants. Adding these chemical nutrients to soil seriously whacks the PH down in the medium. Results are after killing the micro herd supplying natural nutrients that were in your soil, now the soil (medium) ph is screwed thus making your soup of nutes ineffective as well. It just does not make sense to use soil as your medium if your A. going to kill off the micro life that will feed and sustain your plants. B. Use a medium that will be hard to maintain the proper PH. If your going to use soil please don't turn it into a hyrdo medium, that is not what it's designed for.

Anything that has EDTA is sure indicator of synthetic salts which are non organic and do not play well in soil
Click to expand...
 
This is all a lot for a new grower to take in, so it's sometimes easier to let them turn their soil into a hydroponic medium until they can figure it out better. It's better than when new hydro growers try to use organic only in their hydro setups.... Think about all the conflicting advice the nubs get. There's no way they're going to take in more than "NPK" in the sea of bullshit.
 
churchhaze said:
I kind of agree with you on this, but you have to remember that most people come to his help section with the nutrients they insisted on buying and using. It's very hard to steer them away, especially when they already spent their money. For a proper soil grow, calcium shouldn't be provided using calcium nitrate as in calmag, it should be provided with the correct level of lime. Nitrate feeding should be kept to a minimum with soil grows while instead feeding with organic matter containing NH4+. Calcium nitrate is the main provider of nitrate in a hydro solution, so I agree with you 100% that it shouldn't be used in soil.

I don't agree with the EDTA part at all. I think you don't really understand what chelation is. Chelated minerals certainly don't hurt microorganisms, it's just a way to make iron more soluble in water and available to the plant.

I agree you shouldn't turn soil into a non-organic medium, but aside from nitrogen, most everything else in nature is provided by inorganic substances like ash, lime, rust, and even rock phosphate for P, etc as well as organic sources like composted feces and dead organisms.
Click to expand...
Hi Churchhaze,

It's okay to disagree doesn't change the fact EDTA is a synthesized salt and it will hyper hydrate the micro life in the soil when it is dry killing off the micro life. Not good.
We both agree cal mag is important and not to use the nitrate form (synthesized salt) for hydro again same principle kills off the micro life. Not to mention soil PH will be off locking other nutrients.
This in itself the battle with PHing the soil not worth it. They need net cups filled with coco or hydrton or something. Stop destroying green life.

Now lime is one thing to use when cooked into soil but never added as an amendment to correct cal mag issues. Dolomite lime is best for long lasting release in soil.
However when watering one can add General Organics CaMg+ which is a carbonate based great for Organic and the micro life. It will feed not kill the micro herd.

There's only two types chelating organic nutrients one is using synthetic salts the other is using organic acids such as humic or fulvic. EDTA is not chelating in organic acids but synthenized salts.
Too much organic acids especially with high P ratios will lower PH for organic growers and cause nutrient locks as well.
 
Do you realize just how little chelated nutrients go into any given mix anyway? What you're saying is completely baseless. The only element in any sort of appreciable amount that's chelated in most mixes is iron, and there's barely any of that. The rest of the chelated minerals like zinc are in such low concentrations, it may as well be zero. No way that's going to kill a micro culture. Seriously, go look up what chelation is...
 
If you look in the periodic table, you'll be hardpressed to find "calmag" because it's not an element. Calmag is a brand that consists mostly of calcium nitrate! and secondary magnessium nitrate... the third ingredient is iron EDTA. This formula is very similar to the GH flora micro bottle.

DANKSWAG said:
Hi Churchhaze,

We both agree cal mag is important and not to use the nitrate form (synthesized salt) for hydro again same principle kills off the micro life.
Click to expand...
 
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