Can we have a meaningful discussion about the effectiveness of capitalism?

Rob Roy · May 4, 2015

reddan1981 said:
I agree mate, but only so far as, we could individually live without government. Supposedly society breaks down without governance, I believe we could self govern but not without key laws, who would enforce these 'natural laws'?.

How would we implement the change needed without breaking down to a state of anarchy?

The first law should be that forcing involuntary human interactions is a crime, for everyone, including government. When government is exempt from scrutiny, it fosters the idea that what is "normal" is actually effective and moral.

That would clear alot off the table immediately, save money and refocus what a crime is to a more reality based model. Then any arbitration of disputes could focus on real crime and how to make the victims whole or as whole as practicably possible.

UncleBuck · May 4, 2015

Rob Roy said:
The first law should be that forcing involuntary human interactions is a crime, for everyone, including government.

so in your utopia, the first thing you sit down and do is tell all the racists they are free to kick black people out of their stores?

your racial separatism agenda is on the fast track!

Padawanbater2 · May 5, 2015

Padawanbater2 said:
It would seem the data indicates otherwise:

How do you explain the sharp rise in average income beginning at ~1980 for the top .01% of earners? Why were average incomes stable across the board before that?

You're viewing this issue through a specific lense and that feeling it gives you when you see the numbers in black and white makes you uncomfortable. The answers to these questions are pretty clear if you're being intellectually honest. Something happened in the 1970's that shifted the balance of economic growth to the very top percent of households. Now, for whatever reasons you don't want to talk about that and would rather blame "low-skilled Americans".. par for the course with your kind of people I guess, blame the person getting fucked, not the ones doing the fucking..

I wonder why @desert dude didn't respond to this..

Rob Roy · May 5, 2015

UncleBuck said:
so in your utopia, the first thing you sit down and do is tell all the racists they are free to kick black people out of their stores?

your racial separatism agenda is on the fast track!

I'd probably talk to the floor shitters first for sanitary reasons.

I'd explain that shitting on other peoples floors would no longer be accepted unless the owner of the floor had given explicit consent. You'd be a cabinet member, not really a Shit Czar, more like a grand POO-BAH of Fecal Reform. Your salary would be payable in lollipops and crayons.

Rob Roy · May 5, 2015

UncleBuck said:
so in your utopia, the first thing you sit down and do is tell all the racists they are free to kick black people out of their stores?

your racial separatism agenda is on the fast track!

No. The first thing would be to get you to promise you won't shit on another persons property.

Grandpapy · May 5, 2015

There is order to Chaos. But only to those that start it.

http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/wireStory/fec-chair-giving-hope-rein-money-abuses-30761804

Harrekin · May 6, 2015

Padawanbater2 said:
It would seem the data indicates otherwise:

How do you explain the sharp rise in average income beginning at ~1980 for the top .01% of earners? Why were average incomes stable across the board before that?

You're viewing this issue through a specific lense and that feeling it gives you when you see the numbers in black and white makes you uncomfortable. The answers to these questions are pretty clear if you're being intellectually honest. Something happened in the 1970's that shifted the balance of economic growth to the very top percent of households. Now, for whatever reasons you don't want to talk about that and would rather blame "low-skilled Americans".. par for the course with your kind of people I guess, blame the person getting fucked, not the ones doing the fucking..

Lol, so GDP and income increase as you move away from the extreme left towards capitalism?

Well done pwning your own thread.

Padawanbater2 · May 6, 2015

Harrekin said:
Lol, so GDP and income increase as you move away from the extreme left towards capitalism?

Well done pwning your own thread.

This isn't a thread defending capitalism, doofus. Look how well it's doing in western society

NewtoMJ · May 6, 2015

I think something that's not talked about, and plays a big role in all of this conversation is the human psyche. I don't think we will ever have a system of governance that doesn't take advantage of one group of people or another simply because our thought capability hasn't had enough time to catch up to what we know is morally right but somehow continuously miss the mark on. Until the species as a whole is capable of subconscious moral policing of themselves, then there is always going to be shit government.

Harrekin · May 6, 2015

Padawanbater2 said:
This isn't a thread defending capitalism, doofus. Look how well it's doing in western society

Youre defending it by pointing at China but you're just not smart enough to realise it.

Padawanbater2 · May 6, 2015

Harrekin said:
Youre defending it by pointing at China but you're just not smart enough to realise it.

And I thought American education was shit..

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Communist_Party_of_China

"[...] their theory that capitalism is the ultimate has been shaken, and socialist development has experienced a miracle. Western capitalism has suffered reversals, a financial crisis, a credit crisis, a crisis of confidence, and their self-conviction has wavered. Western countries have begun to reflect, and openly or secretively compare themselves against China’s politics, economy and path."
—Xi Jinping, the CPC General Secretary, on the inevitability of socialism.

Harrekin · May 6, 2015

Padawanbater2 said:
And I thought American education was shit..

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Communist_Party_of_China

"[...] their theory that capitalism is the ultimate has been shaken, and socialist development has experienced a miracle. Western capitalism has suffered reversals, a financial crisis, a credit crisis, a crisis of confidence, and their self-conviction has wavered. Western countries have begun to reflect, and openly or secretively compare themselves against China’s politics, economy and path."
—Xi Jinping, the CPC General Secretary, on the inevitability of socialism.

The chart you posted shows that as China shifts slowly towards capitalism that the GDP and income of their citizens has been sky rocketing.

When it was 100% Commie it was a shit hole.

Again, you're just too dumb to get the point.

Padawanbater2 · May 6, 2015

Harrekin said:
The chart you posted shows that as China shifts slowly towards capitalism that the GDP and income of their citizens has been sky rocketing.

When it was 100% Commie it was a shit hole.

"The CPC views the world as organized into two opposing camps; socialist and capitalist. They insist that socialism, on the basis of historical materialism, will eventually triumph over capitalism. In recent years, when the party has been asked to explain the capitalist globalization occurring, the party has returned to the writings of Karl Marx. Despite admitting that globalization developed through the capitalist system, the party's leaders and theorist argue that globalization is not intrinsically capitalist. The reason being that if globalization was purely capitalist, it would exclude an alternate socialist form of modernity. Globalization, as with the market economy, therefore does not have one specific class character (neither socialist or capitalist) according to the party. The instance that globalization is not fixed in nature, comes from Deng's insistence that China can pursue socialist modernization by incorporating elements of capitalism. Because of this there is considerable optimism within the CPC that despite the current capitalist dominance of globalization, globalization can be turned into a vehicle supporting socialism."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Communist_Party_of_China#Economics

You gonna pick Cuba next as a shining example of capitalism, smart guy? Why not pick any western country, all of them are capitalist. If you think capitalism is responsible for the growth in China you are mentally retarded.

Harrekin · May 6, 2015

Padawanbater2 said:
"The CPC views the world as organized into two opposing camps; socialist and capitalist. They insist that socialism, on the basis of historical materialism, will eventually triumph over capitalism. In recent years, when the party has been asked to explain the capitalist globalization occurring, the party has returned to the writings of Karl Marx. Despite admitting that globalization developed through the capitalist system, the party's leaders and theorist argue that globalization is not intrinsically capitalist. The reason being that if globalization was purely capitalist, it would exclude an alternate socialist form of modernity. Globalization, as with the market economy, therefore does not have one specific class character (neither socialist or capitalist) according to the party. The instance that globalization is not fixed in nature, comes from Deng's insistence that China can pursue socialist modernization by incorporating elements of capitalism. Because of this there is considerable optimism within the CPC that despite the current capitalist dominance of globalization, globalization can be turned into a vehicle supporting socialism."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Communist_Party_of_China#Economics

You gonna pick Cuba next as a shining example of capitalism, smart guy? Why not pick any western country, all of them are capitalist. If you think capitalism is responsible for the growth in China you are mentally retarded.

Go on, post the Wikipedia article again.

China's success has been entirely as a result of their gradual embrace of CAPITALISM.

Just cos you don't know about it doesn't make it untrue, Dumbowan.

Can we have a meaningful discussion about the effectiveness of capitalism?

Rob Roy

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UncleBuck

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Padawanbater2

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Rob Roy

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Rob Roy

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Harrekin

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