Can You Adam And Eve It?
- Thread starter skunkushybrid
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Blowback
Well-Known Member
Heres my two pence worth... the bible was writing by a bunch of stoners like you and me with nothing else to do of a day...something to keep the kids happy on cold nights...and then what happened it become a best seller,look it has everything action, adventure, magic,folktales, and lots more...so my point is buy the book but don't think your going to become a star in the movie...be yourself...i think any so called god would want that from you....peace and love
whitey111
Well-Known Member
simple point: With everthing created there is a creator period. and maybe our god has designed certain religions based on the differences of his children. why is one so perfect? that would go along with the thought that everyone good will be let into heaven.
its funny though, there are two things that upset people most to discuss, politics and religion. and yet here we are
its funny though, there are two things that upset people most to discuss, politics and religion. and yet here we are
preoQpydDlusion
Well-Known Member
simple enough. but ur point makes one large assumption. that this world was created. u dont know that it was. everything that is created naturally has a creator, but creation isnt a thing, its an action that we, as humans labeled.
consider this. the world around you is simply a large physical... thing (for lack of a better word.) the house u live in, the shit inside it, the entire world around it, are atoms bouncing around, being propelled by energy. the only thing that really separates you from the chair you are sitting in is your perception. u differentiate the atoms in your body from the chair that is physically touching you, so you recognize urself as being different from the chair. its just your opinion.
opinions arent real. opinions vary. now lets look at ur assumption of creation. u assume the universe was created, presumably because u imagine a beginning. (let me know if i assumed wrong) but what if there wasnt a beginning. just because this goes against ur bible, dont worry. its ok to consider stuff.
people assume there was a beginning because ppl see themselves in the world around them (n vise versa.) most people would say it is obvious that i had a beginning. i was born.
but i have always been at least half alive. weird? maybe not. think about it, when i was conceived, my mothers egg was fertilized by my fathers sperm. 50/50 mix. while male sperm is produced often in the body, keep in mind that female eggs are existent in the female body since birth! so the egg that was used in my creation was around long before i was born. i am essentially as old as my mother.
uh oh, im trailing. sorry i think i lost my point. but faith alone is what proves to you that this world was created. keep that in mind i guess.
'God alwase has been and shall be' is a common phrase right? (or something along those lines)? why not cut him out and say that the universe alwase has been and shall be?
whitey111
Well-Known Member
so basically your saying that we have always been alive in one form or another, a part of us anyway and that we were never just created,because we have always been, right? then we'll go back to nature. how do we create somthing, we cant magically congure the energy to form molecules, so we take from what is already there, from the earth and from our surroundings, and we put them together to form different "things", thus you have creation( but you still formed a more complex object from simpler objects). keep going back. how was the earth created out of nothing? it must be created out of somthing, because it exists, weather in our realitys or somone elses. so how was anything created? i dont know, but it had to be some form of most basic type of energy.
i guess what im trying to say is that where we are today is the build up and the continuation of some form of energy that was created and kept getting more an more complex. maybe we're a thought in some higher form of conscience. but the fact of the matter is that you cannot create somthing out of nothing.
and to have life (energy) is to have a begining
so why couldnt some form of a higher being, form of energy,"God", whatever you want to call it, why couldnt he/she/it/them/they etc... have created us.
my point is that you can use the most simple example from nature and from your suroundings, which is all we have as humans and magnify it all you want but the fact is that even through all the complexity of that magnification when you go back to the basics it is still true.if you take a look at yourself (human), but still keep looking back and looking back to find a simpler from of yourself, to find an origin,but that is exactly it. there is a begining to everything conscience, it just keeps becoming more and more basic the further you go back untill, guess what, you find the begining.
i guess what im trying to say is that where we are today is the build up and the continuation of some form of energy that was created and kept getting more an more complex. maybe we're a thought in some higher form of conscience. but the fact of the matter is that you cannot create somthing out of nothing.
and to have life (energy) is to have a begining
so why couldnt some form of a higher being, form of energy,"God", whatever you want to call it, why couldnt he/she/it/them/they etc... have created us.
my point is that you can use the most simple example from nature and from your suroundings, which is all we have as humans and magnify it all you want but the fact is that even through all the complexity of that magnification when you go back to the basics it is still true.if you take a look at yourself (human), but still keep looking back and looking back to find a simpler from of yourself, to find an origin,but that is exactly it. there is a begining to everything conscience, it just keeps becoming more and more basic the further you go back untill, guess what, you find the begining.
shunkan
Active Member
some believe that einstein was trying to find god through mathematics....that there is one simple formula to explain all laws of physics, nature, etc. so then, that formula would represent the pure intellect of god, being he could do and create all things with one simple thought.................al never got there, but al had faith in the unkown. faith is the root of the question, the simplest formula may be faith. faith, in the way that today the sun rose, and will tomarrow, and the next. all answers lie in the future, not the past. shit i think i just convinced myself in god.......LOL
preoQpydDlusion
Well-Known Member
i love that first bit. i was tripping out a few months ago (i used to have a habit of forcing bad trips on myself, i guess out of a wanting to escape reality) and i was thinking the same thing. at the time i was horrified and i was obsessed about it; its kinda cool to see someone else bring it up. anyway...
"but the fact of the matter is that you cannot create something out of nothing" i see this as a point of the nonexistence of god. do u imagine god a long time ago building stuff out off preexisting microscopic particles? or maybe u go with god doesnt have to play by the rules. im not mocking, im just wondering what u mean.
o, this aint specifically related to the topic, but think about this: every thing has to be made of something. my body is made up of organs, made up of flesh, made of cells, made of molecules, made of atoms, made of protons & etc, made of quarks, which might be made of superstrings..... and it cant ever end. quarks are (as far as i know) the smallest forms of matter that scientists agree exist. but they cant be made out of nothing, because if somethings made of nothing, then it is nothing. so if everything has to be made of something, then everything is never-ending!
skunkushybrid
New Member
If something is made out of nothing, then it is made of something. You need to say... if something is not made of anything.
Hmm, what was that last post about 20 reasons not to believe in a god?
I cannot do this as my argument isn't against a god. My argument is against the religion that surrounds the bullshit. Also, that when we die, we somehow remain conscious. I know that when you lose consciousness you do not know anything until you wake up (regain consciousness). This is what it is like when you are dead, you are not conscious. My argument is also about people's perception of what their god is.
So, would you like (not sure about 20) reasons not to believe the bible?
Hmm, what was that last post about 20 reasons not to believe in a god?
I cannot do this as my argument isn't against a god. My argument is against the religion that surrounds the bullshit. Also, that when we die, we somehow remain conscious. I know that when you lose consciousness you do not know anything until you wake up (regain consciousness). This is what it is like when you are dead, you are not conscious. My argument is also about people's perception of what their god is.
So, would you like (not sure about 20) reasons not to believe the bible?
warmboe
Well-Known Member
So are you in the belief that religion, and whatever god, are two different subjects? Cuz I am, and I know, cuz I've been there. I fully agree that religion is a load of bull!
How could any variation be right when there are so many that claim to have gods "holy spirit", (whatever that is), but yet they are all different. Even their hopes are different: some believe in heaven and hell, others religion don't believe in hell, but believe in the entire world being destroyed exept them, who will live forever in paradise, just like adam and eve. No sickness, death, even the animals will evolve to be vegitarians (after they eat all the dead people god killed).
Rediculous huh? But still this is what they truely believe, and they do it cuz it comforts them. I prefer a joint to comfort me. But us being so closed minded makes us just like them! Them preaching at the door is not much different than those kids trying to sell magazine subscriptions to get to college. Only they think they are getting eternal whatever. Just smile and say, "no thanks, not interested", even say it twice sometimes then close the door!
I have never heard anyone that knows absolutely what happened, and how or why we are here (how we started). There is scientific proof that we evolved, but like Whitey said someone at least thought about it, the first form.
Anything is possible!
preoQpydDlusion
Well-Known Member
Ah, im not sure if id be interested in that. id be a sitting duck to be sure. as far as im concerned the holy bible is just another collection of stories in the same leage as aesops fables. good stories, but not historical facts. i think i misjudged you, u and i seem to have similar beliefs (or lack of) and the hate u seemed to have must have been simple frustration
...I have never heard anyone that knows absolutely what happened, and how or why we are here (how we started). There is scientific proof that we evolved, but like Whitey said someone at least thought about it, the first form.
Anything is possible!
I think we exist because theres no alternative. say nothing was created, and everything u experience is a natural, neutral occurrence. like the glass half full/ half empty deal. u can analyze it as either. if u ponder long enough, u might ask 'who poured it?' (creation) or 'what happens if i drink it?' (death) but these questions are irrelevant. the cups contents are there, 50%. now do what u will. whatever that may be. taking such a neutral stance on reality isnt usually sought after, because it doesnt allow u to show others how spiritual/enlightened you r. u have to regress to the normal state of mind of human nature. christianity says humans are naturally evil (because of original sin) and eastern philosophies often say that humans are naturally ignorant (or not enlightened).
i say fuck all that. but then again, as far as i know, u all dont exist and im simply talking to myself right now to pass time in this never ending existence. im tired pc out
skunkushybrid
New Member
I strive for reality, for truth. Even certain people I know are acting their way through life, I don't mean acting to other people as we all do that, but even acting to themselves. Tending to react in a way that they have seen on tv rather than in a way that is real.
Yes Pre', frustration. Mental frustration. People lie about the silliest things, lie when they have don't have anything to lose or gain from it. The bible is a part of this because they teach it to you in school, teach it to you as though it is truth, expecting you to go out and do the same.
I'd be stupid to completely discount a 'creator', as this could really mean anything. Like a series of events, even. Does this mean that I am special? Does this mean I will go to heaven and live forever when I die?
We made up stories to explain what we did not understand, we still do not understand it, yet we should now know the difference between fiction and fact... an earthquake is not some god getting pissed off but a natural occurence that is set off by a set of other random occurences.
Yes Pre', frustration. Mental frustration. People lie about the silliest things, lie when they have don't have anything to lose or gain from it. The bible is a part of this because they teach it to you in school, teach it to you as though it is truth, expecting you to go out and do the same.
I'd be stupid to completely discount a 'creator', as this could really mean anything. Like a series of events, even. Does this mean that I am special? Does this mean I will go to heaven and live forever when I die?
We made up stories to explain what we did not understand, we still do not understand it, yet we should now know the difference between fiction and fact... an earthquake is not some god getting pissed off but a natural occurence that is set off by a set of other random occurences.
what is a christian?
Isn't that an interesting concept...
Well i don't know what a christian really is except someone who professes to believe in jesus christ and through him his father god and ultimatly eternal life... Well that doesn't sound like such a bad deal for who wants to believe their great great...... grandfather was a monkey and that one day they will die and be consumed by worms... well that person would be a fool for they have completely given up hope and like pandora learned, why live if we can have no hope... if we only look for the things that are wrong with the world and long for death and eternal meaningless sleep why even live in the first place... me i would far rather be labled a christian who you may think is living in a fantasy world being ruled by someone elses made up stories and lies but in my case i'm enlightened far beyond one who would sit there and try to find reasons why they will not survive for more then a few measely years... I believe what i have found to be true, for the universe is to large and there is to much unknown to ever discount anything... all of you who are arguing there is no god have you seen the whole universe do you know all there is to know... I highly doubt it!!!!!!!!! And if i'm wrong then prove it. give me more then your silly thoughts on why there can't be a higher power which has far greater knowledge then you can even imagine... these arguments that you put forth prove your foolishness because, why there are people out there that look for eternal life and knowledge you sit in front of your computer and try to come up with ideas that are no more then examples of your foolishness... if you want to believe that thousands of years ago your ancestors were picking bugs off the back of one anouther and eating them thats fine thats your belief... I believe if you search the world over and the small amount of universe that we can actually see and interact with you will not find another creature, animal, etc... that is anything like a human.. that can conciously create, destroy, and think. that loves that hates... you will not find any of that and that is because of the most important and maybe only true litteral line in the bible... We were created in gods image and that gives us the power to understand and have this argument......
Isn't that an interesting concept...
Well i don't know what a christian really is except someone who professes to believe in jesus christ and through him his father god and ultimatly eternal life... Well that doesn't sound like such a bad deal for who wants to believe their great great...... grandfather was a monkey and that one day they will die and be consumed by worms... well that person would be a fool for they have completely given up hope and like pandora learned, why live if we can have no hope... if we only look for the things that are wrong with the world and long for death and eternal meaningless sleep why even live in the first place... me i would far rather be labled a christian who you may think is living in a fantasy world being ruled by someone elses made up stories and lies but in my case i'm enlightened far beyond one who would sit there and try to find reasons why they will not survive for more then a few measely years... I believe what i have found to be true, for the universe is to large and there is to much unknown to ever discount anything... all of you who are arguing there is no god have you seen the whole universe do you know all there is to know... I highly doubt it!!!!!!!!! And if i'm wrong then prove it. give me more then your silly thoughts on why there can't be a higher power which has far greater knowledge then you can even imagine... these arguments that you put forth prove your foolishness because, why there are people out there that look for eternal life and knowledge you sit in front of your computer and try to come up with ideas that are no more then examples of your foolishness... if you want to believe that thousands of years ago your ancestors were picking bugs off the back of one anouther and eating them thats fine thats your belief... I believe if you search the world over and the small amount of universe that we can actually see and interact with you will not find another creature, animal, etc... that is anything like a human.. that can conciously create, destroy, and think. that loves that hates... you will not find any of that and that is because of the most important and maybe only true litteral line in the bible... We were created in gods image and that gives us the power to understand and have this argument......
i know my last post was a bit long but i need to let everyone know.... i don't think anyone here is a fool persay... after reading all the posts again i see a bunch of people looking for answers... so i say this just consider my words look farther then your nose... funny how i've lived for 21 years and couldn't find a conversation such as this in church or anywhere else you might expect, but i can find it on a marijuana web site...lol... thank you so much everyone and i hope this conversation continues to grow... i wish i could publish this for maybe people could realize that there is much more to consider in the universe then their insignificant day to day lives... So I ask this why not let this continue indefinately or until everyone can agree on one aspect of existence... understand that my statements are not out of anger but out of a sincere belief that there is something more... maybe not what organized religion would have you believe but something...
skunkushybrid
New Member
You are truly afraid of death. Unusual for a 21 year old to think this way. You are so afraid that you need to believe that you go to some sort of heaven when you die.
How does realising there is no god leave you without hope? Do you not have a life? Do you not want a family (you may of course already have one) of your own? I see plenty of scope for hope.
You think that people that believe what is real are fools, and that you that believes in badly written stories are not. The bible was written by men, Jesus was a man... to believe anything else makes you the fool.
How does realising there is no god leave you without hope? Do you not have a life? Do you not want a family (you may of course already have one) of your own? I see plenty of scope for hope.
You think that people that believe what is real are fools, and that you that believes in badly written stories are not. The bible was written by men, Jesus was a man... to believe anything else makes you the fool.
preoQpydDlusion
Well-Known Member
Dude, thats really sad to me. why do you consider your life so insignificant?
heaven and hell are right infront of you man, think about it. your life is never ending because when u die, u cease to perceive.
you wanted somebody to prove u wrong (about there being an afterlife), then here u go. heaven simply wouldnt work. and for that matter, hell wouldnt either. sorry to spoil anything, but ull never escape the ups n downs in life. they are the same. without the bad shit, u wouldnt have anything to compare the good shit to.
now, ive said it before, but ill say it again. if having christian morals honestly makes you happy, then stick w/ it. but if u feel like ur holding urself back from fulfilling a complete life, fucking stop. the problem with conservative groups is that they force people to be teased on a daily basis.
naturally, people and cultures become desensitized to the same stimulants over the years (something that everybody on this forum should agree about), but the bible has people acting like frustrated zombies.
preoQpydDlusion
Well-Known Member
frthnkr85, please start enjoying your life. honestly u have made me a little depressed because u have reminded me of how i used to be. i felt shitty for years (a solid decade to be exact. 9 yrs old till 19) because i obsessed about "the meaning of life". every day i would think "theres no point to living, no point to living, life sucks." i sabotaged my entire social life throughout highschool because of my practically autistic social patterns. then a while after graduation i started thinking slightly different. "theres no point to living, no point to living, lifes awesome!".
if i have assumed too much of you, and u really dont have a hard time enjoying life, forgive me. i apologize. but to anybody out there reading this feeling stuck, any victims of circumstance that havent yet had any reason to rejoice in the fact that they continue to breathe, head my words:
just because we bust our asses all our lives and we dont get shit in the end, it doesnt mean were getting screwed over. life itself is the prize. so enjoy it as much as u can while u can
if i have assumed too much of you, and u really dont have a hard time enjoying life, forgive me. i apologize. but to anybody out there reading this feeling stuck, any victims of circumstance that havent yet had any reason to rejoice in the fact that they continue to breathe, head my words:
just because we bust our asses all our lives and we dont get shit in the end, it doesnt mean were getting screwed over. life itself is the prize. so enjoy it as much as u can while u can
skunkushybrid
New Member
Exactly. This is heaven, and this is as good as it is going to get. Well, to me this is heaven, some people may be living in hell. 90% of the time it's about perception. People kill themselves over the silliest things.
yall misunderstand me... i don't have a problem with life in fact if you were to meet me then you would probably think that i'm one of the happiest content people you will ever meet and i am very enlightened for 21... and i was never surrounded by people that assist me in believing my so called delusion... both my dad and grandfather are hardcore atheist and i've had this conversation with them many times... see faith can grow stronger or weaker and me being the type of person i am i'm forged by the fire... I'm sad to see that you guys have lost faith in anything and i hope that one day something you see in this beautiful place we call earth might restore a glimmer of faith... secondly i haven't been afraid of death for a long time... the only thing i fear for is those i leave behind because it saddens me to think of what they will have to go through when i'm no longer here... as far as moving on goes if you guys are right then thats fine and i will go in the ground and everything is over... however if i'm right well..... you guys are in for a bad ride... i'm not strictly christian i believe like you guys that some people have used the belief in something more to control people and so i don't go to church or subscribe to the zombified aspects of religion... for what you see of people in religious environments is mostly lies.... I just believe that there is to much unknown to discount anything... until you our a scientist or anyone else has all the answers to all the questions i would like to ask then i will continue to believe that there is something or someone or whatever out there that does understand and know all of those answers... and that might be god or something else entirely... but closing your mind to possibilities well thats just foolish to me... as i said before i respect yalls views and this is some of the most interesting points on the subject i've seen in a while... but i ask this i consider your arguments why not consider mine... i don't ask that you go to church and read the book and subscribe to the christian life... because in fact you'll never see me do such... i just ask that you consider the scope of all that is and don't close your mind to possibilities!!!!
warmboe
Well-Known Member
frthn, what I am hearing from you is not that you are depressed or gonna kill yourself. Saying life is everyday and mundane is not so far off from reality. We get up every day, go to work, or have our kids to give us a 24 hour job with no vacations. My friends psycologist asked her what she was. She said, "a accountant, and a mother." He told her, "no, you are not. You are nothing, nobody." At one time we are not here yet, nothing, then we live, then die and after we are gone, we are nothing again.
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