Can your gentics be clean if you clone after flower?

racerboy71 said:

what do you mean by clean and unclean genetics?
it doesn't matter when you take a clone, a clone by it's very nature is an exact copy of the plant it came from..

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People in the cannabis community don't seem to grasp this concept, for whatever reason. There is a reason people are able to keep strains of plants alive for decades via clones, without them becoming all decrepit and mutated.

EverythingsHazy said:

People in the cannabis community don't seem to grasp this concept, for whatever reason. There is a reason people are able to keep strains of plants alive for decades via clones, without them becoming all decrepit and mutated.

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Genetic drift is a real thing that definitely happens. But generally if you have a strong mom you'll never see it.


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AZPsyclops said:

A plant is not the same as it is in veg as in flower.
If it was the plant would be an autoflower.

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Priceless

AZPsyclops said:

After a plant goes into puberty they can all be different.
I have had the same 3 strains for over three years and they still hold the original pheno and geno appearance.
I always clone in veg because I have no room to grow a mom.
I still get symetricaly perfect 7 leafs on the AK and perfect 9 to 11 on the Kush, even after 4 years.
The plants literally come out identical except for the season.

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Have you found your AKs are difficult to root? I cloned some AK for my current run and the first to pop roots was 11 days while the last to pop 26 days.

The previous time i cloned AK it was a different pheno and they were also stubborn to pop the roots.

So i was thinking the AKs are generally stubborn about it.... similar time line as above...

The only other strain i have cloned was white russian and all cuts popped roots in under 14 days.... exact same environment...

kmog33 said:

Genetic drift is a real thing that definitely happens. But generally if you have a strong mom you'll never see it.


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Yes, genetic drift is real, but I highly doubt it will happen in what people consider a long period of time. A humans lifetime is nothing compared to how long evolution and other genetic changes usually take. Tbh I feel like anyone who is complaining that their clones have decreased in vigor is either growing them in worse conditions, or has strains that have been infected or infested by something (possibly a virus) along the way. If cloning so quickly ruined genetics, tissue culture would create shitty plants since they are all clones of clones of clones for hundreds of generations in a short time.

hondagrower420 said:

You're wrong.



Yes it is. It is the exact same DNA. DNA doesn't change.



Yes, they are. If you were to do a DNA test before and after puberty, it would be the same DNA.

Plants and humans aren't the same.

Any cannabis plant can herm. It is a survival trait that ensure progeny in nature.

Gg#4 will herm out from to much wind.

What you speak of is called environmental factors, not genetics.

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Just noticed my gg#4 is herming out, only after I pollinated one branch.....my luck. I believe it was due to the heavy defoliation I did.

Dan can grow said:

Just noticed my gg#4 is herming out, only after I pollinated one branch.....my luck. I believe it was due to the heavy defoliation I did.

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And she will not, I repeat not clone.

Dan can grow said:

Just noticed my gg#4 is herming out, only after I pollinated one branch.....my luck. I believe it was due to the heavy defoliation I did.

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Yup. Finicky.

EverythingsHazy said:

Yes, genetic drift is real, but I highly doubt it will happen in what people consider a long period of time. A humans lifetime is nothing compared to how long evolution and other genetic changes usually take. Tbh I feel like anyone who is complaining that their clones have decreased in vigor is either growing them in worse conditions, or has strains that have been infected or infested by something (possibly a virus) along the way. If cloning so quickly ruined genetics, tissue culture would create shitty plants since they are all clones of clones of clones for hundreds of generations in a short time.

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Ime it can happen with unstable genetics as well, which there are a lot of being released ATM. Mutations/genetic drift in this sense happens much more often than natural/long term genetic drift/evolution lol.


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kmog33 said:

Ime it can happen with unstable genetics as well, which there are a lot of being released ATM. Mutations/genetic drift in this sense happens much more often than natural/long term genetic drift/evolution lol.


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It is definitely true that a lot of unstable genetics are being passed around, but I think the term "unstable" is referring more to the multiple phenotypes than it does to genetic maladies.

If plants happened to mutate so frequently, don't you think we'd see a bunch of perennials that are all mutated and discombobulated after being alive for so many years? A cutting doesn't change the dna. It literally just causes roots to grow on a stem, which allows that piece of the original same plant, to sustain itself as a whole. IF you are doing something else to your clones, such as inducing extreme amounts of stress for many generations at a time, you MAY see a decline, but I'd honestly be hesitant to believe that if someone took a cutting of one of them and put it in ideal conditions, that it wouldn't grow perfectly healthy new growth, assuming there was no use of chemical growth regulators or mutagens, and also assuming that no plant virus was contracted at any point.

I have a "Calea Z." (not sure the actual identity) plant that grows really quickly, and roots faster than most other cuttings. I recently took a cutting (this week), and once I get it planted out and it has a bit of growth, I may start taking clones from that cutting, and the taking clones from those clones, until i get to 10-20 "generations", to see if anything is different than the mother plant. I may even grow some outside for a few generations, and some on a windowsill, to cause the most variance in genetic expression, and see if the next following generations show any impact, or if they revert back to how the mother looks when put back on the same shelf.

EverythingsHazy said:

Yes, genetic drift is real, but I highly doubt it will happen in what people consider a long period of time. A humans lifetime is nothing compared to how long evolution and other genetic changes usually take. Tbh I feel like anyone who is complaining that their clones have decreased in vigor is either growing them in worse conditions, or has strains that have been infected or infested by something (possibly a virus) along the way. If cloning so quickly ruined genetics, tissue culture would create shitty plants since they are all clones of clones of clones for hundreds of generations in a short time.

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i've heard rumors that something has happened to gg4 along the way, not sure if it caught a virus at some point or what happened, but i've read from more than a few people that the earlier clones of gg4 were much different than the clones from later mothers.. not in a good way either, much less vigorous, and not nearly as much trichome coverage..

racerboy71 said:

i've heard rumors that something has happened to gg4 along the way, not sure if it caught a virus at some point or what happened, but i've read from more than a few people that the earlier clones of gg4 were much different than the clones from later mothers.. not in a good way either, much less vigorous, and not nearly as much trichome coverage..

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I don't know anything about that strain, but that sounds interesting. I wonder if anyone has access to both. Growing them both in the exact same conditions right next to each other would be my first test. After that, testing them to insure a genetic match would be my second concern. There are lots of mixups in labeling and record keeping, especially when dealing with multiple people. Then viral testing would come third.

Also, I don't like how a lot of companies have their own "version" of a strain, but call it the same thing (ie. White Widow). If you get White Widow seeds, they should have come from the same stable genetic pairing at some point. That meaning the same exact two plants (or one plant if it was reversed and selfed). Just using two of the same strain plants to make the same cross does not make the same strain. This can easily lead to many people thinking they have the same strain, despite growing completely different ones.

AZPsyclops said:

Every plant can change due to climate and environment after it starts to flower.
I can make hermi traits by shocking a plant in flower.
I have never heard of that happening in veg?

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The genetics don't change. That's impossible. You just causing different genes to be expressed. But the genes don't change.

I have monster cropped the same strains for years, never saw a difference, never saw a decline, plants grow the same every time, herb smokes the same

debate all ya want

http://www.apsnet.org/edcenter/advanced/topics/PopGenetics/Pages/geneticdrift.aspx

good read

AZPsyclops said:

Is a person the same before purberty as they are after?

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Your DNA is the same

ive grown over 75 gorilla glue4's in over 2.5years, NEVER EVER EVER had one herm on me.

a clone is an exact genetic copy of the plant its cut from. no matter if its a vegged plant or one in flower. you cant change the genetics or dna. its here to stay.

AZPsyclops said:

Is a person the same before purberty as they are after?

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Genetically yup the same but not mentally.....father of three girls here lol. As I've spent half my taxable earnings on tampons I consider myself an expert and yes they change. The smile goes away, they start to get this roll eye's thing, and have a penchant for using every drop of hot water in the tank.

hondagrower420 said:

Negative. Proof?

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I say again: that is the theory I had heard at the time.

I believe in 2008 or somewhere around then, a buddy grew out a seed from a pretty good bag o bud but had no place to keep the unsexed plant so my dad took it and put it under 400 watt mh. He was looking for something to grow anyways so he cloned it hoping for a girl and threw it under the 1000 Hps. It turned out to a female( no suprise) and was better bud than everything else going around so he kept it. He claims its one if the only strains that he will never built a tolerance to( I have however developed a tolerance for her though, being much younger). We still have her today and I don't believe she( captain skidoo) has changed at all. My dad still prefers her to all the local buffet. I still get ripped smoking the captain after a few bags of the local BC crap( taste like crap) The only way she will herm if she is budded under lights, but then its only a few pods then she's clean.she's been in the cold, wind, root damage mid way through flower. I swear she'll stand up to anything, only wish I knew what strain she is.

Anyways back to the forum title, we recently receive 3 clones 1 purple kush that had a dank potent smell, and 2 "Celeste". All three had small buds with hairs on them and the pistol pods? on the nodes where swollen and covered in crystal. Luckily the PK had roots out the bottom so it grew out and we cloned it and have the original clone growing big, with the clones of The clone in smaller 4_7 gallon pots. The Celeste smells good too but not like the PK. Got some clones of her too. All the cuttings look healthy and look/smell great. I don't think they'll hermy, but we'll see.