Climate in the 21st Century

Will Humankind see the 22nd Century?

  • Not a fucking chance

    Votes: 41 28.3%

  • Maybe. if we get our act together

    Votes: 35 24.1%

  • Yes, we will survive

    Votes: 69 47.6%
  • Total voters
    145
cannabineer

cannabineer

Ursus marijanus
DIY-HP-LED said:
Let's say with a combo of solar and wind with a home battery bank, a typical home with a 4kW generating capacity could on average generate 2 kWh or operate at 50% capacity for 20 hours out of 24.

The average home powering a small EV would use around 10,000 kWh/year, less if heated by a heat pump and with an efficient water heater. So, you would only need to produce around 2 kWh for 20 hours a day with a small solar/wind turbine combo to be completely energy independent with a good home battery bank. There are a lot of single-family homes in America that could do this and reduce grid demand significantly while having free energy for 90% of their transportation and all of their home use. The balance between wind and solar would depend on location and climate, but between the two most homes could squeeze a consistent 2kW out of a combo of wind and solar. With cheap home battery banks and EVs, more than oil and gas companies will feel consumer competition, utilities will too. Home generation will only become cheaper and more feasible with cheap solar panels and batteries, the addition of EV charging from home will add an incentive for many.

www.verifythis.com

Some home appliances can use as much energy as electric vehicles

The most popular electric vehicles can use about as much electricity as some home appliances. Here’s how appliances and EVs compare.
www.verifythis.com www.verifythis.com


View attachment 5261982

The two most electricity-demanding appliances in the average American household are water heaters and electric furnaces, according to the U.S. Energy Information Administration’s 2015 Residential Energy Consumption Survey. The average home uses a little more than 3,000 kWh of electricity each year on heating the air, and another 3,000 kWh on heating water, meaning an electric car would require at least a little more electricity than it takes to run each of these appliances in the average U.S. home.

But one reason why this claim needs context is because not all appliances are created equal. There are some appliances that use more electricity than many electric vehicles.
Click to expand...
that last sentence … can you give examples? My central a/c uses 3kW. An EV (and I don’t mean the not-really-trucks) on the highway in ordinary non-ludicrous mode uses 20 or more kW.

also, kW not kWh first paragraph.
 
DIY-HP-LED

DIY-HP-LED

Well-Known Member

The smartest renewable rooftop power system in the world? #powernest

6,148 views Feb 19, 2023
Renewable rooftop power will play a vital role in the decentralised community grid systems of the future. Getting every ounce of power out of available rooftop spaces will be key to making that transition a success. Now a Dutch firm has shown us how it can be done, with several large successful REAL-WORLD installations.
 
DIY-HP-LED

DIY-HP-LED

Well-Known Member
cannabineer said:
that last sentence … can you give examples? My central a/c uses 3kW. An EV (and I don’t mean the not-really-trucks) on the highway in ordinary non-ludicrous mode uses 20 or more kW.
Click to expand...
I'm just going by the annual energy usages stated in the article, using tesla 3 numbers of 4 miles/kWh and with a heat pump for heating and cooling. The numbers say that many homeowners would have the potential for energy independence, including for transportation with a fairly modest setup.
 
cannabineer

cannabineer

Ursus marijanus
DIY-HP-LED said:
I'm just going by the annual energy usages stated in the article, using tesla 3 numbers of 4 miles/kWh and with a heat pump for heating and cooling. The numbers say that many homeowners would have the potential for energy independence, including for transportation with a fairly modest setup.
Click to expand...
a typical Tesla gets 3 miles out of a kWh. At a mellow 60 mph that is 20 kW.

I am curious about the appliances that chew up more juice than the avg. 20kWh/day a male driver of employed age would use in an average EV.

Average Annual Miles per Driver by Age Group

www.fhwa.dot.gov
 
DIY-HP-LED

DIY-HP-LED

Well-Known Member
cannabineer said:
that last sentence … can you give examples? My central a/c uses 3kW. An EV (and I don’t mean the not-really-trucks) on the highway in ordinary non-ludicrous mode uses 20 or more kW.

also, kW not kWh first paragraph.
Click to expand...
As for AC, there is a very good chance it will be mostly running during peak solar hours when panels would be putting out the most power. Some of the ideas behind a smart green new grid is energy independence for many and distributed energy generation and storage, moving away as much as possible from central power stations and long-distance transmission. People making and storing their own energy is part of that vision and cheap solar panels and batteries will make it a reality for many people and perhaps force a change in utility business models.
 
DIY-HP-LED

DIY-HP-LED

Well-Known Member
cannabineer said:
a typical Tesla gets 3 miles out of a kWh. At a mellow 60 mph that is 20 kW.

I am curious about the appliances that chew up more juice than the avg. 20kWh/day a male driver of employed age would use in an average EV.

Average Annual Miles per Driver by Age Group

www.fhwa.dot.gov
Click to expand...
I'm just going by the numbers presented in the article and they appear to indicate more energy independence for average people and a distributed optional (for some) power grid. Less money and power for utilities and oil companies when it comes to the average homeowner.
 
cannabineer

cannabineer

Ursus marijanus
DIY-HP-LED said:
I'm just going by the numbers presented in the article and they appear to indicate more energy independence for average people and a distributed optional (for some) power grid. Less money and power for utilities and oil companies when it comes to the average homeowner.
Click to expand...
I’d still like you to specify the appliances.
And homeowners aren’t everyone.

I’m more interested in the 90th-percentile user. The top 10% have the real outliers among them, but in California a 100-mile-each-way commute is remarkably common. (That’s 65 kWh per working day in a nominal EV! Not counting off-duty errands OR time lost in stop-n-go) So the 50th percentile (by definition) won’t do for half of us.
 
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DIY-HP-LED

DIY-HP-LED

Well-Known Member
Something of note though, if a homeowner can just generate 1kW of solar or wind for say 10 hours a day on average for 300 days out of the year and had a battery bank, it would generate 3000kWh a year, about enough to power a compact EV for daily commuting. A 1 kW setup with a battery bank might be very affordable in a few years. Solar panels are currently dropping by 30% due to a glut of polysilicon in China from new factories.
 
DIY-HP-LED

DIY-HP-LED

Well-Known Member
cannabineer said:
I’d still like you to specify the appliances.
And homeowners aren’t everyone.

I’m more interested in the 90th-percentile user. The top 10% have the real outliers among them, but in California a 100-mile-each-way commute is remarkably common. (That’s 65 kWh per working day in a nominal EV! Not counting off-duty errands OR time lost in stop-n-go) So the 50th percentile (by definition) won’t do for half of us.
Click to expand...
Well, in California there is fairly consistent and strong sunlight with warm temps most of the time, AC power demand is mostly during peak solar. Getting 2 to 4 kWh in southern California for 12 hours most days should not be an issue. Up here in Canada we would depend on wind generation much more. The main point is with increased and cheaper solar generation with cheap storage, it will become feasible for many people to make their own power, especially if they drive an EV. I would also expect many homes to be retrofitted with heat pumps for heating and cooling over the next decade. People will do it if it makes economic sense and there is an incentive and a combination of factors like cheaper solar and batteries along with EVs are making this possible and desirable for many.
 
Sativied

Sativied

Well-Known Member
You don’t let a Tesla (or other EVs) deplete to 0%, and rarely charge it to 100%. Charging while it’s below 20% and above 80% is slower.

In practice, on this side of the pond, it usually takes 20min to 9 hours to charge a Tesla. 20-30 min on a supercharger v3, almost double on v2, 1-9 hours on a public charger, 5-9 hours at home (3-phase supply). Longer if you only have a 1-phase supply, up to 30 hours.

If you’re limited to the last option, the limitation is not the battery or car.

DIY-HP-LED said:
Something of note though, if a homeowner can just generate 1kW of solar or wind for say 10 hours a day on average for 300 days out of the year and had a battery bank, it would generate 3000kWh a year, about enough to power a compact EV for daily commuting. A 1 kW setup with a battery bank might be very affordable in a few years. Solar panels are currently dropping by 30% due to a glut of polysilicon in China from new factories.
Click to expand...
When a homeowner generates 3000kWh a year, again this side of the pond, that is roughly enough for the electricity need for the home (singles, couples without kids). Which in NL requires 8-9 solar panels. 10-12 is common on new homes. Most of the total number of panels here are on roofs of homes and this is a common sight. Building regulations for new homes require a certain amount of renewable energy based on size, increased every few years.

F9F47B55-65A8-4551-9541-A15D279A69A4.jpeg

Some take it a little further. Energy co pays for excessive electricity consumers put back on the grid, though that arrangement is slowly being phased out (too many doing it, overloads power grid sections) it takes only ~5 years to earn back the investment.
6D4B4190-BA44-4460-8CD8-99696721E324.jpeg

Fully integrated looks best. Plenty for home and car uses as well as heated water and heating overall (also through water in floor heating, or heat pump)
CDE8178A-A447-4138-BCE6-787DD2307F63.jpeg

With the increased electricity rates, saving ‘fuel‘ costs is atm not a major motivation to switch the EV. But when you generate all the energy for your home yourself, and can fast charge at home, and get to drive superior EVs, and contribute to saving the planet, it’s still a no-brainer when you can afford it. And when you can, it’s unrealistic to fit modern EVs into 20th century power grids/supplies already in dire need of upgrades. It’s like wanting to fill a gas tank with a straw and then blame the car.
 
DIY-HP-LED

DIY-HP-LED

Well-Known Member
Sativied said:
You don’t let a Tesla (or other EVs) deplete to 0%, and rarely charge it to 100%. Charging while it’s below 20% and above 80% is slower.

In practice, on this side of the pond, it usually takes 20min to 9 hours to charge a Tesla. 20-30 min on a supercharger v3, almost double on v2, 1-9 hours on a public charger, 5-9 hours at home (3-phase supply). Longer if you only have a 1-phase supply, up to 30 hours.

If you’re limited to the last option, the limitation is not the battery or car.


When a homeowner generates 3000kWh a year, again this side of the pond, that is roughly enough for the electricity need for the home (singles, couples without kids). Which in NL requires 8-9 solar panels. 10-12 is common on new homes. Most of the total number of panels here are on roofs of homes and this is a common sight. Building regulations for new homes require a certain amount of renewable energy based on size, increased every few years.

View attachment 5262117

Some take it a little further. Energy co pays for excessive electricity consumers put back on the grid, though that arrangement is slowly being phased out (too many doing it, overloads power grid sections) it takes only ~5 years to earn back the investment.
View attachment 5262118

Fully integrated looks best. Plenty for home and car uses as well as heated water and heating overall (also through water in floor heating, or heat pump)
View attachment 5262119

With the increased electricity rates, saving ‘fuel‘ costs is atm not a major motivation to switch the EV. But when you generate all the energy for your home yourself, and can fast charge at home, and get to drive superior EVs, and contribute to saving the planet, it’s still a no-brainer when you can afford it. And when you can, it’s unrealistic to fit modern EVs into 20th century power grids/supplies already in dire need of upgrades. It’s like wanting to fill a gas tank with a straw and then blame the car.
Click to expand...
A distributed generation and storage plan is part of a smart green new grid with homes generating a significant amount of their own power. It will mean distributed storage with home battery banks and EVs. Generating 2 to 4 kW of power is doable for most homeowners and according to the article I posted earlier in the thread, a house with a heat pump, efficient hot water heater and EV, could easily generate more power than it would use using a solar and wind combo. Gas fired power plants would be used very infrequently, if at all and would most likely be gas turbines for fast response, but eventually batteries could displace them as backup power. You can't make your own gas and oil, but you can in many cases make enough electricity for home and personal transport with an EV and soon it will be a lot cheaper to do so.
 
cannabineer

cannabineer

Ursus marijanus
Sativied said:
You don’t let a Tesla (or other EVs) deplete to 0%, and rarely charge it to 100%. Charging while it’s below 20% and above 80% is slower.

In practice, on this side of the pond, it usually takes 20min to 9 hours to charge a Tesla. 20-30 min on a supercharger v3, almost double on v2, 1-9 hours on a public charger, 5-9 hours at home (3-phase supply). Longer if you only have a 1-phase supply, up to 30 hours.

If you’re limited to the last option, the limitation is not the battery or car.


When a homeowner generates 3000kWh a year, again this side of the pond, that is roughly enough for the electricity need for the home (singles, couples without kids). Which in NL requires 8-9 solar panels. 10-12 is common on new homes. Most of the total number of panels here are on roofs of homes and this is a common sight. Building regulations for new homes require a certain amount of renewable energy based on size, increased every few years.

View attachment 5262117

Some take it a little further. Energy co pays for excessive electricity consumers put back on the grid, though that arrangement is slowly being phased out (too many doing it, overloads power grid sections) it takes only ~5 years to earn back the investment.
View attachment 5262118

Fully integrated looks best. Plenty for home and car uses as well as heated water and heating overall (also through water in floor heating, or heat pump)
View attachment 5262119

With the increased electricity rates, saving ‘fuel‘ costs is atm not a major motivation to switch the EV. But when you generate all the energy for your home yourself, and can fast charge at home, and get to drive superior EVs, and contribute to saving the planet, it’s still a no-brainer when you can afford it. And when you can, it’s unrealistic to fit modern EVs into 20th century power grids/supplies already in dire need of upgrades. It’s like wanting to fill a gas tank with a straw and then blame the car.
Click to expand...
I look at the integrated design with concerns. How easy is it to repair the roof (it looks like climbing on it is not doable), and to change out panels as they reach end of life?
 
Sativied

Sativied

Well-Known Member
cannabineer said:
I look at the integrated design with concerns. How easy is it to repair the roof (it looks like climbing on it is not doable), and to change out panels as they reach end of life?
Click to expand...
Access and climbing isn't a challenge for the pros. It's a modular system, panels can be easily replaced and is of course a design requirement from the start. It's no more complicated than removing and installing a regular set of panels. Not something a consumer has to worry about regardless, 25 year guaranteed production level. Prefab roof including panels available for older homes too, but for new ones it's not a lot more expensive than adding a regular roof with tiling and then panels on top, while it adds more of that to the house's value. The aesthetics of solar panels in neighborhoods is a bigger issue than maintenance. It gets messy when everyone does their own thing.

DIY-HP-LED said:
a house [...] could easily generate more power than it would use using a solar and wind combo.
Click to expand...
Can't read the article, blocked for my region it seems. Wind is not a popular choice for homes in dense urban areas. Unreliable/inconsistent, noisy, high maintenance, expensive, limited height allowed, view-blocking. Many farmers have 1, as they can build them high enough in areas where there's sufficient wind. Per home wind is atm not the solution for the downside of solar panels. Home battery packs at somewhat affordable rates aren't a practical consideration for most atm either. Considering we need a lot of energy for heating, it's more effective to store the energy in water (and use far less natural gas). Being self-sufficient and saving money is the perfect people let stand in the way of the good. One should be content with being able to switch to a greener solution and still be able to earn back the initial investment. If that investment is a problem, governments need to step up.
 
Sativied

Sativied

Well-Known Member
And we're back in the game:

Lightyear announces relaunch with 100 people – Bits&Chips

bits-chips.nl bits-chips.nl

original.newsbreak.com

Introducing the Lightyear 2: A More Affordable Solar Electric Car | Inyerself | NewsBreak Original

A few months ago, the world was introduced to the Lightyear 0 — the solar electric car that promised an entirely new way of driving. Unfortunately, it was too expensive for most people to be a real option if you didn't have a few hundred thousand dollars. But now, with the announcement of the...
original.newsbreak.com original.newsbreak.com

Long story short: you get up to 40miles extra on sunny days.

(still, would not invest...40-50mil more needed to start, 1 billion to finish...)
 
Roger A. Shrubber

Roger A. Shrubber

Well-Known Member
cannabineer

cannabineer

Ursus marijanus
Sativied said:
And we're back in the game:

Lightyear announces relaunch with 100 people – Bits&Chips

bits-chips.nl bits-chips.nl

original.newsbreak.com

Introducing the Lightyear 2: A More Affordable Solar Electric Car | Inyerself | NewsBreak Original

A few months ago, the world was introduced to the Lightyear 0 — the solar electric car that promised an entirely new way of driving. Unfortunately, it was too expensive for most people to be a real option if you didn't have a few hundred thousand dollars. But now, with the announcement of the...
original.newsbreak.com original.newsbreak.com

Long story short: you get up to 40miles extra on sunny days.

(still, would not invest...40-50mil more needed to start, 1 billion to finish...)
Click to expand...
I can’t find any specs. Especially battery size and (no solar assist) miles or km per kWh.
 
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Sativied

Sativied

Well-Known Member
cannabineer said:
I can’t find any specs. Especially battery size and (no solar assist) miles or km per kWh.
Click to expand...
The relatively low price tag is assumed to be partly achieved by using a smaller battery pack than the lightyear.0. No official specs yet, but it is speculated based on lightyear.0 and claims about lightyear 2 that it will do 425km on 40kWh (instead of lightyear.0’s 625km on 60kwh). That’s without solar.
 
cannabineer

cannabineer

Ursus marijanus
Sativied said:
The relatively low price tag is assumed to be partly achieved by using a smaller battery pack than the lightyear.0. No official specs yet, but it is speculated based on lightyear.0 and claims about lightyear 2 that it will do 425km on 40kWh (instead of lightyear.0’s 625km on 60kwh). That’s without solar.
Click to expand...
That’s about 6 miles a kWh! If the Aptera craps out, that’s a good plan B. I should be able to do most of my driving without supplemental line electricity!
 
injinji

injinji

Well-Known Member
I bought another ev today. Just like the one I bought a couple three years ago. My battery had gotten to the point it only charges half way, so I looked into buying a new battery. It was 350 and the new mower with battery was only 700. So. . . . . I will leave the old mower at the riverhouse and just bring the batteries back and forth, as needed.

mower.png
 
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