COB Manufacturers other than CREE or BRIDGELUX

PSUAGRO. said:

Did you ever get around to test a 1000w hps/mh bulb(s) draw in your mag ballasts?????????? before making this claim

Click to expand...

What 'claim'? My Kill-A-Watt says that my 860W CDM lamps with magnetic ballasts pulls between 1075-1100W.

What does trying this with a different lamp have to do with it? I'll bet you my best clone that HPS and MH lamps will pull the very same. Tell me why a magnetic ballast with no microprocessor at all would drive different lamps at different wattages?

Icemud420 said:

The new Budmaster COB-X-4's arrived so I did my typical unboxing, testing review video to show off what you get. They are using the 3500k CitiLED S4 High CRI COB chips, 4 of them at a draw of 196w-202w average draw. As soon as I get my journal up, I will post a link, but right now about 30 days into flowering, just swapped lights so this current grow will not really be a good judge of the lights, so I will be following up with a grow from start to finish.

Hope you guys like the video, I tried to think of all the tests that most would want to know. Please don't hate on my editing..LOL I'm still learning...

Click to expand...

Hello,
i think that is not correct, i dont think they are using 3500k CitiLED S4 High CRI COB chips. I asked P Krasnowski (BUDMASTER SHOP owner), at 8 September he gave me an answer, that he said:
We are also releasing the white light COB early next month (waiting for plastic lens to be finished here in wales) which will use the latest CLU044 at 3500k. The light engine will fit into your existing bud master with same power supply for this one as around 50w.

So they use at the moment COB Series Version3

littlejacob said:

Bonjour
850w CDM in fact...it is more a guess but...companies are trying their products in US market and if it a success they try to sell it in other part of the world!
I never saw this kind of light in our growshops...but 850w who pull from the wall 1100!!! Better stay with a 1000whps! (I guess it is cheaper and you get the same gpw!?)
Same for induction...not in our biggest growshop (franchise)!
When a good product is in US it take 6month to a year to be available in EU
I can buy (expensive) Azomite since a month only
And we are lucky to have a Spanish company who sell V29 and cxb 3070 ab panels and MW drivers!
Have a great day ★

Click to expand...

The lamps are made by Philips.

This discovery has driven me to plan for the replacement of every light bulb in my grow and to turn my back on HID lighting for horticulture for good.

ttystikk said:

What 'claim'? My Kill-A-Watt says that my 860W CDM lamps with magnetic ballasts pulls between 1075-1100W.

What does trying this with a different lamp have to do with it? I'll bet you my best clone that HPS and MH lamps will pull the very same. Tell me why a magnetic ballast with no microprocessor at all would drive different lamps at different wattages?

Click to expand...

because what if your 1000w hps/mh bulb draws 1250w/1300w from your ballast(s)? your NOT accounting for shitty/low quality mag ballast loss,IDK without you testing it........and then the philips 860w bulb would be saving you energy as designed....

PSUAGRO. said:

because what if your 1000w hps/mh bulb draws 1250w/1300w from your ballast(s)? your NOT accounting for shitty/low quality mag ballast loss,IDK without you testing it........and then the philips 860w bulb would be saving you energy as designed....

Click to expand...

Okay, there's an outside chance that ALL THREE of the ballasts and lamps I tested are running at efficiencies in the low 70s. Don't be shocked when the ballast pulls the same watts from the wall whether it's driving an 860W CDM, an HPS thouie- or even a 600W HPS.

BTW, I noticed you didn't take my bet.

I can't wait to talk to these guys tomorrow. Any questions list here. Durability test.

Bonjour
Who want to test it with his cxb 3590!?
But if you put really all you weight on it I am not sure it will be the same...!
But it is impressive to see...now what is those chips efficiency?
Have a great day ★

littlejacob said:

Bonjour
Who want to test it with his cxb 3590!?
But if you put really all you weight on it I am not sure it will be the same...!
But it is impressive to see...now what is those chips efficiency?
Have a great day ★

Click to expand...

I asked efficiency and was told 130Lm/W @ 70 CRI
He didnt specify which spectrum, and I would guess most efficient one was given 5000K or so

Malocan said:

Hello,
i think that is not correct, i dont think they are using 3500k CitiLED S4 High CRI COB chips. I asked P Krasnowski (BUDMASTER SHOP owner), at 8 September he gave me an answer, that he said:
We are also releasing the white light COB early next month (waiting for plastic lens to be finished here in wales) which will use the latest CLU044 at 3500k. The light engine will fit into your existing bud master with same power supply for this one as around 50w.

So they use at the moment COB Series Version3

Click to expand...

+1. CLU044 is the precursor of CLU046. Behavior is slightly difference; Vf higher by about 1V. Output slightly lower. BUT they come cheap as hell; my regional distributor would send me a hole batch for free. It seems citizen is pumping new chips faster than they actually sell them...

Assuming it's 1818 you are talking about, efficiency for 5000k is 132lm/w according to official docu:
http://ce.citizen.co.jp/lighting_led/dl_data/datasheet/en/COB_3/CLU044-1818B8_P2407_0614.pdf
Though PAR efficiency would be much more useful.

On a completely different sidenote, I have to admit that I'm fairly impressed with epistar chips. Came to test cheap 20W replacement boards for ceiling lights, 4000K, and they are doing great so far. Bright as hell. I'm going for some 50W epistar cob via aliexpress, and will post updates here. The documentation is awful, but since I already heave cree and citizen chips here, at least I can compare.

cdiweb is offering about 7 pages of chip offerings, in the Version 4 series.....

Thanks @alesh
Did manage to do a bunch of math related to the assume LER's....

Temps are case temps in datasheets Tc
Citizen Version 4.......046xx series


3k 80 cri 1212 [330LER]
37.4 watt
$15.23
85c= 5257 lumens
25c= 5680
140.68 42.6%
152 46%

.426 * 37.4 / $15.23 17.204 PAR watts $.885 /PAR watt
.46 * 56.1 = 25.026 PAR watts / $20.08 $.802 /PAR watt
Link http://www.cdiweb.com/ProductDetail/CLU0461212C1303M2G2-Citizen-Electronics-Co-Ltd/562442/
Datasheet http://ce.citizen.co.jp/lighting_led/dl_data/datasheet/en/COB_4/CLU046-1212C1_P3083_0415.pdf


3k 70cri 1212 [353 LER]
37.4 watts
$15.23
52 volts 1080 mA
85c tc =5678 lumens @Vf
25=6135

152 Lumens/353= 43 % 16.08 par watts
164 /330 = 46.45 % 17.37 par watts
85= .95 /par watt
25= $.876 /par watt [17.37/15.32]
Link http://www.cdiweb.com/ProductDetail/CLU0461212C130AL7G4-Citizen-Electronics-Co-Ltd/562438/




3k 80cri 1812 [330 ler]
56.1 watts
$20.08
1080mA 52volts
85=7694
25=8269

137 lumens per watt 41.5% 23.2815 PAR watts $.8624
147.4 44.6% 25.02 par watts $.802

LInk
http://www.cdiweb.com/ProductDetail/CLU0461812C1303M2G2-Citizen-Electronics-Co-Ltd/562461/

3k 1818 80 CRI [330 LER]
1620 mA 52v $28.82
84.2 watts
85=11230 133 40.3 %
25=12069 143.3 43.4%


85= 33.9 par watt /28.82 $.85014
25= 36.54 par watts / $.7887/par watt
Link http://www.cdiweb.com/ProductDetail/CLU0461818C1303M2G2-Citizen-Electronics-Co-Ltd/562477/

http://www.cdiweb.com/ProductDetail/CLU0461818C1353M2G2-citizen/562478/#.Vl0sGPmrTIV
I might order some of these.

The CLU056 series are just fr brute power with lower efficiency I guess

Abiqua said:

cdiweb is offering about 7 pages of chip offerings, in the Version 4 series.....

Thanks @alesh
Did manage to do a bunch of math related to the assume LER's....

Temps are case temps in datasheets Tc
Citizen Version 4.......046xx series


3k 80 cri 1212 [330LER]
37.4 watt
$15.23
85c= 5257 lumens
25c= 5680
140.68 42.6%
152 46%

.426 * 37.4 / $15.23 17.204 PAR watts $.885 /PAR watt
.46 * 56.1 = 25.026 PAR watts / $20.08 $.802 /PAR watt
Link http://www.cdiweb.com/ProductDetail/CLU0461212C1303M2G2-Citizen-Electronics-Co-Ltd/562442/
Datasheet http://ce.citizen.co.jp/lighting_led/dl_data/datasheet/en/COB_4/CLU046-1212C1_P3083_0415.pdf


3k 70cri 1212 [353 LER]
37.4 watts
$15.23
52 volts 1080 mA
85c tc =5678 lumens @Vf
25=6135

152 Lumens/353= 43 % 16.08 par watts
164 /330 = 46.45 % 17.37 par watts
85= .95 /par watt
25= $.876 /par watt [17.37/15.32]
Link http://www.cdiweb.com/ProductDetail/CLU0461212C130AL7G4-Citizen-Electronics-Co-Ltd/562438/




3k 80cri 1812 [330 ler]
56.1 watts
$20.08
1080mA 52volts
85=7694
25=8269

137 lumens per watt 41.5% 23.2815 PAR watts $.8624
147.4 44.6% 25.02 par watts $.802

LInk
http://www.cdiweb.com/ProductDetail/CLU0461812C1303M2G2-Citizen-Electronics-Co-Ltd/562461/

3k 1818 80 CRI [330 LER]
1620 mA 52v $28.82
84.2 watts
85=11230 133 40.3 %
25=12069 143.3 43.4%


85= 33.9 par watt /28.82 $.85014
25= 36.54 par watts / $.7887/par watt
Link http://www.cdiweb.com/ProductDetail/CLU0461818C1303M2G2-Citizen-Electronics-Co-Ltd/562477/

Click to expand...

How does that stack up against the CXB3590?

bassman999 said:

http://www.cdiweb.com/ProductDetail/CLU0461818C1353M2G2-citizen/562478/#.Vl0sGPmrTIV
I might order some of these.

The CLU056 series are just fr brute power with lower efficiency I guess

Click to expand...

I need to redo the #'s since Alesh gave me an idea for LER, but the 056 is 44% efficient @ 117watts with an 85c Tc.

Not a hog really at all....maybe a legitimate alternative half beast

bassman999 said:

How does that stack up against the CXB3590?

Click to expand...

Just off the top off my head the 046 series is less efficient than a 3590, but less per Par Watt cost....I think there is some legitimacy for Citizen as a 3rd option behind Cree and Bridgelux....

but that is strictly an opinion off #'s and datasheets alone...Would be nice to see real world data trickle in....I am on the hunt

Abiqua said:

Just off the top off my head the 046 series is less efficient than a 3590, but less per Par Watt cost....I think there is some legitimacy for Citizen as a 3rd option behind Cree and Bridgelux....

but that is strictly an opinion off #'s and datasheets alone...Would be nice to see real world data trickle in....I am on the hunt

Click to expand...

Looks the CLU056 has 2 versions and price points.
54v 355W $45 3500k 80CRI at 143.6 lm/W
108V 510W $63 3500K 80CRI at 137.7 lm/W

I wonder how the 54V version would look under 75W

Anyone found a better deal for citizen than cdi ? Going through official regional distributors seem much more interesting (the 1818 costs only around $21/pc), but you need a registered business. Maybe we could set up a collective purchase ?

@nevergoodenuf regarding Opto Luna 300

At 6.65A (304W) the 3000K Luna 300 chip is 118 lm/W (36.4% efficient). It should be possible to get a junction temp of 85C. As Alesh points out, we have no idea what Tj they are referring to when they give their lumen figures, it just says ambient = 25C which gives us no clue what kind of cooling they are assuming is being used.

At 3A (125W) it requires ~ 41.6 Vf so you could use HLG-120H-42A or 42B driver. At that current it should be about 143lm/W (44% efficient). A junction temp of 65C should be possible.


What is the price of the Luna 300?

bassman999 said:

Looks the CLU056 has 2 versions and price points.
54v 355W $45 3500k 80CRI at 143.6 lm/W
108V 510W $63 3500K 80CRI at 137.7 lm/W

Click to expand...

Bonjour
When you say 510W at 137.7lm/w is it @510w or at nominal power that you get 137lm/w
Me I wonder how efficient this one would be @ 200w!??? or less!?
And the area you could cover with it!?
Have a nice day!