Coco VS soil. Same strain. Planted at the same time. Unreal

PJ Diaz said:

What would the "control" medium be in your mind?

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I have no idea, it isn't my experiment. There are so many variables that haven't been revealed. I have no idea what was used under the catch all term "soil", what did it contain? Were the plants from seed or cloned? Because if they aren't clones, then the whole outcome is moot. I notice that the plants are in different sized pots, this also makes the outcome moot.

Is the size of the plant even relevant? I have had bigger plants give less yield than smaller ones.

I think the OPs assumption is correct, but I don't think his experiment proves a great deal either.

speedwell68 said:

Oh yeah, soil is much more work than coir, but I am enjoying the learning curve I am on working towards a fully organic soil mix.

I get that the experiment done here proves is the OP had two plants and the one in coir grew bigger. We have no idea why.

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It is much more guess work. Organics is further level of soil growing. He made a post calling it soil, than later called it hempy or whatever and at the end he said its DTW inert peat amended with perlite. Only proof of this thread is that he has not figured out how to treat it saying it needs another two weeks when it should be done 2 weeks ago. Than put coco next to it claiming victory. BS all the way down!

unless i had $200 to blow every month on fert chems im pretty sure soil beats coco. i just wanted to remind everyone of the 'controls' being stated in this 'test'

mudballs said:

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unless i had $200 to blow every month on fert chems im pretty sure soil beats coco. i just wanted to remind everyone of the 'controls' being stated in this 'test'

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Yep. This is one of the reasons I prefer soil. If I went to coco my nutrients bill would go through the roof, I am currently spending about $15 a year.

speedwell68 said:

Yep. This is one of the reasons I prefer soil. If I went to coco my nutrients bill would go through the roof, I am currently spending about $15 a year.

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dont get me wrong, i totally know that coco will out pace soil in a tent setting...but if you wanted to go yield vs. input costs yeah um, no contest.

jonnynobody said:

This is my first real attempt at a coco grow using canna coco mixed with some chunky perlite at the bottom for good drainage. These are 2 strawberry coughs that were planted at the same time. The coco plant is twice the size of soil. I'm thoroughly impressed. When I did my first coco transplant into a 5 gallon hempy the roots were thick, white, and ran through the coco top to bottom. All perlite only grew a few tap roots to the res and then established roots in the 3" res only. I think it seriously inhibits the growth due to a less than robust root system having been developed. More roots makes stronger plants. Coco for the win:. Jack's 3-2-1. Before anyone says something I only just transplanted the SC on the right this afternoon. The soil plant is growing so slowly it's going to be another week or two before she's ready for the big pot and truth be told I can't stomach the idea of using soil. She's going in coco for sure. Soil is just too dam slow.

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The root area is 5x in the bucket, l call bs. If soil was well aerated theyd be closer than that.

speedwell68 said:

Oh yeah, soil is much more work than coir, but I am enjoying the learning curve I am on working towards a fully organic soil mix.

I get that the experiment done here proves is the OP had two plants and the one in coir grew bigger. We have no idea why.

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Gotta disagree with you guys.
Coco (hydro) requires constant monitoring. Constant testing. Constant care.
A good soil is set it and forget it.
Totally easier to grow in soil, which is why don’t use coco.

Also, as technology improves, why shouldn’t coco outperform soil in yield?
New tech universally improves old tech.
Whether it’s lights, or nutrients, or medium.

I prefer soil. But I would expect a completely controlled environment like indoor coco to improve yield.

As someone who grows with both living soil and coco/Jack's (or megacrop), I can honestly say that coco is vastly cheaper to start with but that will even out over time the more times you reuse the soil. Even if you are fertigating 5 times per day, Jack's is dirt cheap if you buy it in bulk, and cheaper still if you get some off brand calnit. I don't know why this thread triggered some people so hard, both ways are fine to grow with, it comes down to personal preference. I like organics, but I've switched to mineral salt grows indoors because of the heavy metal content of organics. I still grow organic outdoors though.

speedwell68 said:

I have grown in soil and coir.

For me soil is the better medium for a number of reasons, but each to their own.

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What ultimately sold you on soil vs coco? I'd love to run a couple soil plants just to compare the flavor and overall quality. It's been at least 5+ years since I've grown in soil but I remember every harvest was flavorful, potent, smooth, and burned clean. It seems like I have had to work harder to obtain a similar flavor profile in hydro. I'm not particularly married to hydro or any particular medium but I have preferences for certain reasons. It's hard to haul dirt in and out with my bad back. Coco bricks (or perlite) don't weigh much and are easy to work with so it's easy on the back. I haven't given up on my soil experiment though so next cycle I'm running 2 plants in ocean forest in 5 gallon buckets. I'll run 2 of the same strains in coco hempy's and see what the flavor, smoothness, and overall quality differences are.

Nutty sKunK said:

If you remember OP post a smoke report when done. That’s all I care about

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I wholeheartedly agree. Going from soil to #4 perlite hempy's I can definitely say the flavor is not as remarkable as my old soil plants grown in ocean forest. I wasn't growing organically or anything. I ran the GH flora trio but the fertilizer input was very minimal. I fed on a water, water, feed, water, water, feed schedule. The plants really only got fertilizer once every 8-9 days. I think the very low fertilizer input over the course of the entire grow cycle contributed significantly to the flavor variation. Strangely enough I've ran some high potency strains like gg4 and ghost train haze in the perlite hempy's that tasted and burned exactly like my old soil plants whereas another strain in the same crop did not have the same qualities.

What medium are you growing in? How's the flavor / burn?

speedwell68 said:

Were the two plants clones or from seed? Was there a 3rd "control plant"?

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Both grown from seed. I hard 2 more but they were sacrificed to spider mites before I got the situation under control along with all 6 of my gg4's. That shit hurt.

drsaltzman said:

Gotta disagree with you guys.
Coco (hydro) requires constant monitoring. Constant testing. Constant care.
A good soil is set it and forget it.
Totally easier to grow in soil, which is why don’t use coco.

Also, as technology improves, why shouldn’t coco outperform soil in yield?
New tech universally improves old tech.
Whether it’s lights, or nutrients, or medium.

I prefer soil. But I would expect a completely controlled environment like indoor coco to improve yield.

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Why do you feel coco requires constant monitoring, testing, and care? I can't say I've ever monitored my coco, tested it, or had to provide any extra care than the rest of my plants grown in #4 perlite or even the 2 I have in soil. I hand water all of my plants every 2 days. The coco and perlite plants (not to mention my clones) all drink from the same hydro res. How is that difficult? I have no issue with a preference of soil to another medium, but coco is certainly not harder in any way. I find all 3 mediums to require the same amount of care. No more. No less.

jonnynobody said:

What ultimately sold you on soil vs coco? I'd love to run a couple soil plants just to compare the flavor and overall quality. It's been at least 5+ years since I've grown in soil but I remember every harvest was flavorful, potent, smooth, and burned clean. It seems like I have had to work harder to obtain a similar flavor profile in hydro. I'm not particularly married to hydro or any particular medium but I have preferences for certain reasons. It's hard to haul dirt in and out with my bad back. Coco bricks (or perlite) don't weigh much and are easy to work with so it's easy on the back. I haven't given up on my soil experiment though so next cycle I'm running 2 plants in ocean forest in 5 gallon buckets. I'll run 2 of the same strains in coco hempy's and see what the flavor, smoothness, and overall quality differences are.


I wholeheartedly agree. Going from soil to #4 perlite hempy's I can definitely say the flavor is not as remarkable as my old soil plants grown in ocean forest. I wasn't growing organically or anything. I ran the GH flora trio but the fertilizer input was very minimal. I fed on a water, water, feed, water, water, feed schedule. The plants really only got fertilizer once every 8-9 days. I think the very low fertilizer input over the course of the entire grow cycle contributed significantly to the flavor variation. Strangely enough I've ran some high potency strains like gg4 and ghost train haze in the perlite hempy's that tasted and burned exactly like my old soil plants whereas another strain in the same crop did not have the same qualities.

What medium are you growing in? How's the flavor / burn?


Both grown from seed. I hard 2 more but they were sacrificed to spider mites before I got the situation under control along with all 6 of my gg4's. That shit hurt.

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Interesting that it Varys strain to strain.

I grow in organic soil with organic liquid feeds. Can smoke a bud 3 days after coming off the plant and it won’t be harsh.

I’m tempted to try a coco solo with salt based feeds to see if there is any difference. But I’m more than happy with my results in soil so why bother?

Never have to mess with PH, PPM or EC in soil. That’s the testing part.
Which means you are always monitoring those things, and adjusting if necessary.
I’m not sure growing in bagged soil is true soil growing either. It’s practically hydro once the charge is spent.
A true composted and amended soil is the easiest way to grow. Which is what I’ve done outdoors for many years.
Since I’ve been growing inside I’ve leaned towards the bagged soil for ease, since no grow nutes needed for veg, and only one part bloom nutes from week 4 until harvest. No reservoirs. No schedules. To me that’s as easy as it gets.

In the culinary world the hydro guys would be the bakers, and the soil guys the chefs.
I’m a chef.

speedwell68 said:

I have no idea, it isn't my experiment. There are so many variables that haven't been revealed. I have no idea what was used under the catch all term "soil", what did it contain? Were the plants from seed or cloned? Because if they aren't clones, then the whole outcome is moot. I notice that the plants are in different sized pots, this also makes the outcome moot.

Is the size of the plant even relevant? I have had bigger plants give less yield than smaller ones.

I think the OPs assumption is correct, but I don't think his experiment proves a great deal either.

Click to expand...

I have no idea what was used under the catch all term "soil", what did it contain?
Fox farm ocean forest

Were the plants from seed or cloned?
Seeds

I notice that the plants are in different sized pots, this also makes the outcome moot.
This has been covered multiple times in this thread for people with reading comprehension issues. I'm not even correcting people anymore.

mudballs said:

View attachment 5028334
unless i had $200 to blow every month on fert chems im pretty sure soil beats coco. i just wanted to remind everyone of the 'controls' being stated in this 'test'

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Growing in soil is exponentially more work than growing in hydro or coco if growing organically. It's unreasonable to compare an outdoor grow with unlimited space to an indoor grow with limited space. My wife grew up with a guy that moved out to oregon 20 years ago and got started in the growing / breeding business. He owns and operates jefferson state seed co. This is a picture of a small portion of his garden:

Near the end of the grow season:


Beginning of the season


He's very good at what he does and he feels the same way you do about synthetic chemicals. He calls them "IV heroin addicted plants." Dude doesn't mince words I use synthetic fertilizer for convenience and it's required for the water to waste hydro system I run. I can't haul dirt because I have a bad back with viscous arthritis. This guy has employees, forklifts, and quads to move his materials around. I only have my broken back. No employees. Just me, myself, and I. I don't have the space a guy like this has to run several large organic tea brew reservoirs and I certainly don't have his organic know how to make it all work without killing my plants. Brewing teas is a messy stinky job. This is something I can't do in my basement with limited space without my wife closing up the pussy shop. Use of synthetics in an indoor environment with limited space (and wives in the house) is one of convenience. Brewing organic teas takes time and space I and many other basement growers don't have. This guy lives on a huge swath of land and has all the space, time, and resources he needs to do what he does I have none of those things. I'd suspect many basement growers have the same constraints.

I think organic gardening is great. It's the way god intended and the way it's been done since man began gardening. Synthetic gardening on a small scale indoor garden is more convenient. Nothing more. I do not feel it produces a superior product. It's simply more convenient.

This guy got me pretty excited to try his system out a few years back. I tried brewing teas and feeding the soil, but I failed miserably. I lost 3 months of work and it was devastating. Synthetics produce reliable results for me and I don't have to break my back. Plus my cost for fertilizer is minimal. $120 gets me through 2 years or so running jack's 321. That's cheap, convenient, and reasonable for my situation growing indoors in a small basement. Growing outdoors is a completely different dynamic. As you mentioned growing synthetically is more costly than growing organically. The larger the garden scales up in size the less viable using synthetic fertilizer becomes from a cost perspective. If I were growing outdoors on a larger scale where I'm using exponentially more fertilizer than a small indoor garden I would be forced to learn how to grow organically and come up with a means to move the dirt around. Different growing methods are appropriate for different situations. For an outdoor garden organic is the only way to go. I don't think I've ever heard of an outdoor soil grower using synthetics.

I wouldnt say its exponentially more work but it's more labor intensive

drsaltzman said:

In the culinary world the hydro guys would be the bakers, and the soil guys the chefs.
I’m a chef.

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No argument there. Hats off to the chefs of the world. You guys are the mad scientists of growing. Simple minded folk like me have to stick to baking brownies out of a box

mudballs said:

I wouldnt say its exponentially more work but it's more labor intensive

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It's really hauling the dirt in and out that's a problem for me. It's also messier and the wife bitches enough as it is. I definitely don't use synthetics out of some philosophical belief system. It's just easier, cleaner, and don't break my back. I'm looking forward to seeing how my next 2 soil plants finish up. I've got a white widow and a strawberry cough going now. I was thinking of putting that SC in coco, but I'd like to see how she does start to finish in soil. If the flavor and quality is substantially different I may have to rethink my desire to learn how to garden organically.

Been growing very longtime used both coco and soil. It’s MY opinion that for me I produce a better quality smoke when using soil. Truly there’s no comparison to taste and aroma but this is just my opinion. I’ve also had beautiful results with coco but the smoothness and taste just wasn’t are apparent as with soil.

Nutty sKunK said:

Interesting that it Varys strain to strain.

I grow in organic soil with organic liquid feeds. Can smoke a bud 3 days after coming off the plant and it won’t be harsh.

I’m tempted to try a coco solo with salt based feeds to see if there is any difference. But I’m more than happy with my results in soil so why bother?

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I'm definitely not trying to sell anyone on coco, but I thought the variance in growth rate was remarkable enough to mention. I didn't expect such a large difference.

I've never grown purely organic, but I will say when I first started growing I used ocean forest and fed with the flora trio once every 3 water cycles. Plain water the last week before harvest. That was the best tasting bud I've ever smoked from my own garden. Smooth, flavorful, and outstanding burn qualities. All of those reasons are why I'm even attempting to grow in soil again. I want to recreate that quality and I've been unable to do so in hydro.

There's just something special about soil that hydro can't recreate.

thisbuds4u101 said:

Been growing very longtime used both coco and soil. It’s MY opinion that for me I produce a better quality smoke when using soil. Truly there’s no comparison to taste and aroma but this is just my opinion. I’ve also had beautiful results with coco but the smoothness and taste just wasn’t are apparent as with soil.

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No argument with that assessment. Have you ever grown in soil with synthetic fertilizer?