Curious LST thought for next grow

bignugs68

bignugs68

Well-Known Member
Hello all :cool:. So i had this thought from my LST grow, that if I would start LST super young, like 2nd node, and continue tying/staking it down horizontal, and then in the shape of a horseshoe, most of the mass would be more centered over the pot instead of 70% of it off to the side. Then when transplanting, this horse shoe shaped main stem would be burried about an inch below the surface. With aloe or root hormone the stem should root, and in which case each branch would have roots at its base.

My logic is this would make it much easier for each branch to get nutrients with less energy needed to move the nutes over the shorter distance. Any thoughts?
 
medidedicated

medidedicated

Well-Known Member
I dont think they need to be air layered just for that reason but aounds like a out of the box thinking of an idea. I dont think they struggle to uptake nutes its more to prevent mold being well opened up. The distribution of growth being very identical. I hear them say its like a plumbers approach that nutes flow better mainlining.

I dont think its a reason to do that just for that. I didnt and still dont quite get the point of mainlining unless thats it. Getting another branch to root takes time let alone to build a root system, idk but Ill hang around see what others say. Im not exactly thee one to listen to.
 
bignugs68

bignugs68

Well-Known Member
medidedicated said:
I dont think they need to be air layered just for that reason but aounds like a out of the box thinking of an idea. I dont think they struggle to uptake nutes its more to prevent mold being well opened up. The distribution of growth being very identical. I hear them say its like a plumbers approach that nutes flow better mainlining.

I dont think its a reason to do that just for that. I didnt and still dont quite get the point of mainlining unless thats it. Getting another branch to root takes time let alone to build a root system, idk but Ill hang around see what others say. Im not exactly thee one to listen to.
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Idk what this air layering you mention is lol. But my thoughts were if each branch has a straight line to roots compared to traveling up the main stem and going off to branches - with the longest distance being the top, if each node has roots that'd be better?

Yeah i dont mainline at all, or defoliate much. Mainly because if I mess up with too little nutes, ill have leaves to help buffer a deficiency. I think the more extreme training is for when you have your setup really dialed in and stable. Mine is still too dynamic - one day i come home and tent is perfect 77; next day its 83.5 degrees and I'm opening the tent almost all the way, putting a fan in the window to suck in some winter air.
 
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medidedicated

medidedicated

Well-Known Member
Not exactly air layering but kinda. I guess I understood originally, yea, I dont think its a easy one to pull off its gonna be like several plants with different timing of rootball size and growth reflecting that.

I used to think the same but powdery mildew is traumatizing so I defol anyway and besides, usually when Im in that situation.. Some fan leafs help but its gonna eat itself up quick if somethings really wrong.

Like my plant here. By the way air layering is getting a branch in the air to root by tying rooting media around it. For whatever reason theres a few dofferent reasons to. I tried it its a pain, not for me. The traditional way or one of them is how I like to roll.

Also plant count limits so cant really grow any other way. Just clone and veg a month and flip.
 
medidedicated

medidedicated

Well-Known Member
Forgot to add my shitty plant. So yea extra fan leafs I dont think would of made a difference. I suppose if you get it planted all at once it will work but tricky. Id be curious to see what happens, I once tied a main stem into a knot and grew it out of a solo cup. I mess around too sometimes lol.
 

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medidedicated

medidedicated

Well-Known Member
So I think it can work but not for the reasons you think, its just simply possible. Love being wrong though can always learn something new. I never seen it so hey, maybe hundreds of people are curious to see if you want to show us.
 
bignugs68

bignugs68

Well-Known Member
medidedicated said:
Forgot to add my shitty plant. So yea extra fan leafs I dont think would of made a difference. I suppose if you get it planted all at once it will work but tricky. Id be curious to see what happens, I once tied a main stem into a knot and grew it out of a solo cup. I mess around too sometimes lol.
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Thats potassium def right?

Hollatchaboy said:
My thoughts for lst would be more for keeping the border of the canopy taller, while keeping the center shorter, so ppfd would be more even across the canopy.
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Ahhh now there's some good thinking mate!! I always tried to space my tops decently and trim the biggest fan leaves covering the 2nd/3rd level budsites, but if I trained them to the outer edge overall and kept the shorties in the center, that probably would be better for consistent buds - ppfd more equal. Think ill try all the above lol. Ahh why i love these forums!! Discuss, experiment, learn!
 
medidedicated

medidedicated

Well-Known Member
Sometimes it wont work like that I tried, if space limited like a 2x2. If you just lollipop good its my way to achieve the same thing. Im purposely growing smaller colas though or really just less tightly compacted. They mold easy.

My plant I showed is really pushing it but the newly added airflow peeple always talk about.. Less packed with dead spots. I feel the air flowing when I look at plants it very well may not mold at all.

Its a dryback issue, drain to waste coco so if you dont have that right like letting them dry out too much inbetween feeds.. Will do that. I just kept under estimating how lany times to feed. 8x a day.

Yea you wont always figure out what went wrong but its amazing when you do.
 
bignugs68

bignugs68

Well-Known Member
medidedicated said:
Sometimes it wont work like that I tried, if space limited like a 2x2. If you just lollipop good its my way to achieve the same thing. Im purposely growing smaller colas though or really just less tightly compacted. They mold easy.

My plant I showed is really pushing it but the newly added airflow peeple always talk about.. Less packed with dead spots. I feel the air flowing when I look at plants it very well may not mold at all.

Its a dryback issue, drain to waste coco so if you dont have that right like letting them dry out too much inbetween feeds.. Will do that. I just kept under estimating how lany times to feed. 8x a day.

Yea you wont always figure out what went wrong but its amazing when you do.
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8x a day, holy moly! I am never going to coco lol. Or hydroponics, I've seen the particularities of those grows and not for me. I need wiggle room; ability to be gone for days at a time without needing hundreds of dollars in equipment to keep my babies alive(on top of the already hundreds for a basic tent).

Though...maybe when I'm 50 and semi retired, got tinker time, ill give some hydroponics a shot. I have heard the yields can be 50% more, same with coco yielding 10-30% more.
 
medidedicated

medidedicated

Well-Known Member
Its actually really simple, I did foxfarm ocean forest a couple times it wasnt for me. It seems like its easier but its not, then needing to be gone instead of learning what the issue is just makes it worse.

Im certainly not the brightest around here and I do dtw cofo because its easier. Just need more or less EC, feed more or less per day and make sure theres good runoff.

One around here feeds just 2x a day in flower only once a day in veg and succeeds. Some people get issues that makes them grow differently. I need obnoxious amount of air circulation and thats why I cant do 4-5x a day feed. For whatever reason I cant feed any less than 5x a day even before.

As for equipment its super cheap to do dtw coco. It gets expensive if you want to grow in water or add a ph monitor which a good one is $500. I suppose it costs more but its per tent so if you have one its only $100 for drain, $35 to pump the feed..

The rest of parts are cheap at home depo or etc. Again Im not very bright and I figured it out of course with lots of help at first from here. I know what you mean but it doesnt have to be that way with dtw coco.

Hand feeding is a pain and if your reservoir is in a warm flower room it can rot but found a way to refine it. No more wave makers and constant rot just 5 gallon bucket for each tent of 1-2 plants. Refill buckets every 1-2 days at the worst at 8x a day feed like 4 wks into flower otherwise 5x is good to start.

Thats just the rinky dink setup I came up with otherwise youll quickly learn how to use a big reservoir if you can. That can save lots of frequent refilling but now you work a little harder but less frequent, a deep cleaning is needed time to time.

My veg tent is in cool basement so I can have a bigger reservoir but this bucket setup is dope. Its more frequent but quicker. Im rambling now. Just a thought idk how experienced you are but if soil dont work out Id highly consider dtw coco.
 
medidedicated

medidedicated

Well-Known Member
Heres some of my work when everythings going ok. Some of these didnt make it but its not the grow method its mold. Which lots of circulation helps a lot with. Ive finished pretty strong, one of those went slightly down hill last week of flower due to dryback once again.

One of these show a 2x2 I tried to make a canopy like hollatchaboy suggested which is nice if light has a hot center. If so raising it will even out ppfd in most lights but its tough in a small tent and vigorous plant. Sometimes it just explodes in growth on me. Oh one of these were culled to powdery mildew too otherwise was growing happy.

I have curveballs to deal with but will grow some happy plants again soon lol. Just to show I definetly had greener days.
 

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bignugs68

bignugs68

Well-Known Member
medidedicated said:
Its actually really simple, I did foxfarm ocean forest a couple times it wasnt for me. It seems like its easier but its not, then needing to be gone instead of learning what the issue is just makes it worse.

Im certainly not the brightest around here and I do dtw cofo because its easier. Just need more or less EC, feed more or less per day and make sure theres good runoff.

One around here feeds just 2x a day in flower only once a day in veg and succeeds. Some people get issues that makes them grow differently. I need obnoxious amount of air circulation and thats why I cant do 4-5x a day feed. For whatever reason I cant feed any less than 5x a day even before.

As for equipment its super cheap to do dtw coco. It gets expensive if you want to grow in water or add a ph monitor which a good one is $500. I suppose it costs more but its per tent so if you have one its only $100 for drain, $35 to pump the feed..

The rest of parts are cheap at home depo or etc. Again Im not very bright and I figured it out of course with lots of help at first from here. I know what you mean but it doesnt have to be that way with dtw coco.

Hand feeding is a pain and if your reservoir is in a warm flower room it can rot but found a way to refine it. No more wave makers and constant rot just 5 gallon bucket for each tent of 1-2 plants. Refill buckets every 1-2 days at the worst at 8x a day feed like 4 wks into flower otherwise 5x is good to start.

Thats just the rinky dink setup I came up with otherwise youll quickly learn how to use a big reservoir if you can. That can save lots of frequent refilling but now you work a little harder but less frequent, a deep cleaning is needed time to time.

My veg tent is in cool basement so I can have a bigger reservoir but this bucket setup is dope. Its more frequent but quicker. Im rambling now. Just a thought idk how experienced you are but if soil dont work out Id highly consider dtw coco.
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What you say tickles my handyman tinkering side. It sounds like a drip feed is the only way to go to just have to check it once of an evening. That's what I like about my soil/coco/sphagnum moss/perlite medium. Quick glance in the morning, lift the pot maybe to see if she needs water, check temp and RH after work(morning stats are always good).
 
bignugs68

bignugs68

Well-Known Member
Fatjoe said:
I never top plants. I start training early with seed and regular clones grows.
View attachment 5445516
I've never done a quad before but I think it looks similar to this mess..lol
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The mess gets even deeper with flowering clones..lol
View attachment 5445520View attachment 5445521
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Glad to see another proof of early LST. When I transplant to a 3 gallon from a red cup, it will be only 3/4th's full, and I'll continue LST around the perimeter of the 3gal pot. Once it completes the horseshoe, I will up pot to a 5 gallon with the main stem beneath soil....hmm honestly after my Bubblegum sherb is harvested I'll be good for a while. So for science, I should choose a mother, clone her, and do one plant without the buried horseshoe LST, and one LST'd like I did this grow. Will take longer, but seems to be the standard to use clones for accurate comparisons.
 
Fatjoe

Fatjoe

Well-Known Member
bignugs68 said:
Glad to see another proof of early LST. When I transplant to a 3 gallon from a red cup, it will be only 3/4th's full, and I'll continue LST around the perimeter of the 3gal pot. Once it completes the horseshoe, I will up pot to a 5 gallon with the main stem beneath soil....hmm honestly after my Bubblegum sherb is harvested I'll be good for a while. So for science, I should choose a mother, clone her, and do one plant without the buried horseshoe LST, and one LST'd like I did this grow. Will take longer, but seems to be the standard to use clones for accurate comparisons.
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Got pics of what your doing? Sounds like a plan. Definitely gonna be fun to watch.
 
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