Decarb and oil infusion question

2

2com

Well-Known Member
OldMedUser said:
Link?

:peace:
Click to expand...
Sorry for the long post. Three articles I was looking at:

How to Measure THC Content (Get Your Decarbed Weed Dosage Right!) (Fucked up math; "one-tenth of a gram" is not "0.5g")

How to Make Cannabis-Infused Olive Oil (Fucked up ".87%". Btw, I didn't recall this step. Good to know!)

How to Make Cannabis-Infused Coconut Oil (Here you'll see the correct(ed) math regarding ".87" or "87%".

Here's the fourth one, @OldMedUser; Do You Need To Decarboxylate Cannabis BEFORE You Infuse It?

OldMedUser said:
Glad they set me straight. Better go spend $210US on a Nova unit if I want it done right one little oz at a time.

Just might be a little financial incentive leading to bias in that page.

:peace:
Click to expand...
First of all, that's not the link you asked for, it's one that someone else posted. That being said, are there some issues or mistakes they made in the article; what's your issue with it? (Because I have found mistakes, math error/typos).

But this is fallacious reasoning, dude. I don't care what you use or whatever, but the price is irrelevant to whether the product works or not. Also, noting the smaller unit does "only" one oz at a time makes me wonder if you get the point of the product, and why play down the part of "doing it right", that's also the *main point of the device*. "Doing it right" is the device.

Did they not "set you straight" because you already know that stuff, or because it's wrong or you think otherwise? I think it's meant for people who are complete newbs. I didn't (re)-read it, quick skim.

Financial incentive? Of course, they're selling everything from accessories for the device, to actual "food" (for the certifiably lazy, confused, or "mentally ill" I guess? Haha, jk). And they want to sell you the machine... Ok.

PS: there are other machines, knock offs, etc. I've seen recently, on amazon and stuff. I wouldn't trust most of them. Been aware of and interested in the ardent since before the first model was even released.
Lots of overlooked benefits that some people don't need, as well, like the small size and quite contained smell (again, if needed). The new unit is nice. Whole thing can be put in the dishwasher. You can decarb one gram, or up to four ounces in the same machine, with the same setting, and have the same results.

*Edit: Definitely correct any errors I've made. Thanks.
 
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2

2com

Well-Known Member
BlandMeow said:
Just did a dry ice sift and have 10g of sift.
Click to expand...
If your dry sift is 50% thca. You have 10g of sift, OR 10,000mg of sift. 10,000mg x 50% = 5000mg of thc potential.

If you under decarb, you might end up with say 3300mg of thc. If you over decarb, you might end up with (I think this is how this works) 3800mg (for eg.) of thc (because some has decarbed beyond thc, and converted to cbn or cbg; I forget which - you know - when your edibles just put you to sleep, without the fun part, which might be what you want - sleep).

Many of these edibles at stores are not labeled with the correct amount of thc. They're guesstimating, or making it up. So, people often think they need "200mg of thc" to feel anything. The edibles they've been buying could've claimed 100mg and only been 20-30mg. Or could say 200mg and only contain >50mg. They could be heavy with cbg/cbn (again, I forget) because of over decarb.
Knowing (assuming a device is doing what it claims) that the decarb part of this procedure is being done as fully as possible removes one pretty big unknown/varialbe from the equation.

1 gram (1000mg) of cannabis, at 15% thca, can give 150mg of usuable thc when "properly" or "fully" decarbed.

*Note: I ignored the 87% for this. Relatively new to me, I don't remember that. (So the 5000mg example, might need to be multiplied by 87%. = 4350mg thc potential.

A good, small oven, thermometer probe, and practice/dillegence can achieve very good results.
Peace.
 
BlandMeow

BlandMeow

Well-Known Member
2com said:
If your dry sift is 50% thca. You have 10g of sift, OR 10,000mg of sift. 10,000mg x 50% = 5000mg of thc potential.

If you under decarb, you might end up with say 3300mg of thc. If you over decarb, you might end up with (I think this is how this works) 3800mg (for eg.) of thc (because some has decarbed beyond thc, and converted to cbn or cbg; I forget which - you know - when your edibles just put you to sleep, without the fun part, which might be what you want - sleep).

Many of these edibles at stores are not labeled with the correct amount of thc. They're guesstimating, or making it up. So, people often think they need "200mg of thc" to feel anything. The edibles they've been buying could've claimed 100mg and only been 20-30mg. Or could say 200mg and only contain >50mg. They could be heavy with cbg/cbn (again, I forget) because of over decarb.
Knowing (assuming a device is doing what it claims) that the decarb part of this procedure is being done as fully as possible removes one pretty big unknown/varialbe from the equation.

1 gram (1000mg) of cannabis, at 15% thca, can give 150mg of usuable thc when "properly" or "fully" decarbed.

*Note: I ignored the 87% for this. Relatively new to me, I don't remember that. (So the 5000mg example, might need to be multiplied by 87%. = 4350mg thc potential.

A good, small oven, thermometer probe, and practice/dillegence can achieve very good results.
Peace.
Click to expand...
I shared the page I used for decarb and calculator. I think it came out great. Made gummies that should be between 5-10 mg and based on the effects, I'd say they are pretty close to that.
 
2

2com

Well-Known Member
BlandMeow said:
I shared the page I used for decarb and calculator. I think it came out great. Made gummies that should be between 5-10 mg and based on the effects, I'd say they are pretty close to that.
Click to expand...
https://emilykylenutrition.com/edible-dosage-calculator/ This one. Kinda convenient. Nice.
It just takes Grams of material, x 1000, x THC %, = Answer. Then, interestingly, you can account for THC-A to THC conversion losses (I checked, and it is indeed 87.7%. Like the ardent article mentioned too. It's nice to "confirm" that.

BlandMeow said:
Made gummies that should be between 5-10 mg and based on the effects, I'd say they are pretty close to that.
Click to expand...
5-10mg of thc, with 0-35% of error (on average?). So maybe they're anywhere from 1.75mg thc, to 10mg thc?
Pretty hard to guess, or base it on the "effects", when you don't have an idea to what degree it decarbed. Ie: Did the gram of 20% thc yield the full 174mg thc possible, or only something like 60mg thc (due to under OR over decarb).

Really, it seems very straight forward to see just how easy it would be to improve ones efficiency, get ALL of what we're trying to get out of said amount of cannabis, and save material (money) in doing so.
 
OldMedUser

OldMedUser

Well-Known Member
2com said:
Here's the fourth one, @OldMedUser; Do You Need To Decarboxylate Cannabis BEFORE You Infuse It?
Click to expand...
I checked that out and it seems factually correct but they aren't doing the decarb part of the infusion that I do after infusing fresh frozen pot into coconut oil. Or dried and cured pot for that matter. After cooking up the oil/bud I increase the temp to 250F so the decarb happens in the coconut oil. I use a hotplate cranked to max but it's plugged into a variac to precisely control the temp that I used to monitor with a lab thermometer but switched to my infrared temp gun as it matched the temp readings I got with the thermometer. As the temp hits 235F I can see the decarb bubbles begin and allow the temp to get to 250F and hold it there until the bubbles wane to very few then reduce the heat.

These bubbles are from the water in the buds boiling off. Once that completes the temp gets raised until the fine decarb bubbles start and kept there until they are very few.

Infused04.jpg

I did do some oven decarb prior to coming up with this method and it works but IMEO is an extra step that isn't needed if you allow the decarb later like I'm doing now.

One oz of bud wrapped and sealed twice then the temp probe from my multimeter inserted into the centre of the mass of bud. The little $200 Oster Turbo Convection oven I bought the wife for Xmas at Costco a couple years ago seems to hold set temps pretty good. One thing to do when using an oven to decarb is to preheat for a good hour before putting the pot in so it keeps a more stable temp and to leave the pot in after the decarb to slowly cool before removing from the oven. I gave it 45 min once the probe reads 250F. That pot was made into RSO using 99% ISO also purchased at Costco. 4 - 500ml bottles for $12Can.

Decarb02small.jpg

Now I just decarb the finished oil in the same oven with the temp probe beside the beaker it will be in and can observe the decarb bubbles thru the window.

A problem with using fresh frozen pot is the ISO will be diluted by the water in the buds so I now have a fresh batch of naphtha to use on all that pot in my freezer. Water and naphtha don't mix so it should be fine to soak frozen pot in it.

I plan to send a sample of the pot once dried at room temp and the oil made from the rest of it to a lab to get some real numbers and that should tell me how efficient my decarb method is. With CBD oil it's not as easy to tell how well that works as you don't feel the buzz like you would with THC pot.

Have a Merry Xmas everybody!

Print and fold for a unique Xmas card I made 21 years ago.

XmasCardFinal.jpg

:peace:
 
shredder4

shredder4

Well-Known Member
OldMedUser said:
Glad they set me straight. Better go spend $210US on a Nova unit if I want it done right one little oz at a time.
Click to expand...
Doesn't sound like they set you straight, lol.

I spent more for a Nova fx last year, Nov 2020. On sale with some extras $280 I think. The nova fx model is bigger than a nova.

I'm not new to making edibles, and have tried many methods of decarbing over the years. But my edibles have never been better or more consistant, for my patients or myself since using the Nova fx.

It may be too expensive for a lot of people especially those who don't use or need much, or you, but for me it's been great and super simple to use.

I use it frequently for buds, sift hash and rosin. I've done 4+Oz of buds and up to 85 grams of hash at a time in my Nova fx.

If it broke I'd buy another.
 
oldsilvertip55

oldsilvertip55

Well-Known Member
OldMedUser said:
I have a few gallons of ISO and can get Everclear at the local vendors but both of those are alcohols that also dissolve water soluble compounds from the pot where naphtha is a pure hydrocarbon and works similar to butane in what it picks up. Recommended but not pushed by Rick Simpson for better RSO.

Thank you for your safety concerns but I have that covered. Schooled as a chemist with a couple years working as such in a hazardous waste disposal facility handling a lot scarier things than naphtha. No more dangerous for me than the average person filling their car with gas. Big fire extinguisher at hand and advanced fire training to know what to do with it.

Both ISO and ethanol are highly flammable in concentrated forms as well so the difference is moot and if I had ethanol around I'd be tempted to sample it as I distilled it which would lead to problems. Ethanol and I have a long and sordid history so best I stay away from it. Sober since May and I like it that way. :)

:peace:
Click to expand...
figured out a long two shot from bottle NO more cannabis is not the problem ,it is the drinking that gets me in trouble everytime
 
OldMedUser

OldMedUser

Well-Known Member
shredder4 said:
Doesn't sound like they set you straight, lol.

I spent more for a Nova fx last year, Nov 2020. On sale with some extras $280 I think. The nova fx model is bigger than a nova.

I'm not new to making edibles, and have tried many methods of decarbing over the years. But my edibles have never been better or more consistant, for my patients or myself since using the Nova fx.

It may be too expensive for a lot of people especially those who don't use or need much, or you, but for me it's been great and super simple to use.

I use it frequently for buds, sift hash and rosin. I've done 4+Oz of buds and up to 85 grams of hash at a time in my Nova fx.

If it broke I'd buy another.
Click to expand...
The best tip I got from that site was doing my decarb twice as long to convert a lot of the THC into CBN and make it great for sleepytime meds.

Custom blended RSO with different levels of THC, CBD and CBN to fit the need. That's what I call medicinal pot. :)

I don't find it difficult to do a lot of things myself and don't need another pricey gizmo cluttering up my cupboard to do something I consider no better than what I'm doing now. If I can figure out how to distill butane with 2 - 1L flat bottom boiling balls and 25' of copper tubing doing this kind of stuff is a cake walk. I just need the vacuum take-off fitting for my lab still and can vacuum distill to recover my naphtha and keep temps way down if I want. Already got the fitting to be able to constantly feed my new 2L, 3-neck boiling ball with product and be able to do gallons all in one run. Still can't find the damn heating mantle for it so will use a hot oil bath as my heat source.

My last batch of RSO used 550g, (19.4oz), of pot and 113g of dry sift and there's lots more than that waiting to be processed yet. I won't be harvesting any bud for a few months so I'll be able to clean up the backlog and be ready for more. Wife is bitchin that it's taking up too much freezer space. :)

I blew $200 on one of those MegaHome stills with the temp control but it won't work with naphtha so anybody want to buy a lightly used still for $100. :) Works fine with water or alcohols like ISO or Everclear. Spare gasket too that was $16. My new SS still hold 12L, works great and was only $150.

I know, I know. Everybody's broke after Xmas. Tell me about it. :D

:peace:
 
2

2com

Well-Known Member
OldMedUser said:
I checked that out and it seems factually correct but they aren't doing the decarb part of the infusion that I do after infusing fresh frozen pot into coconut oil. Or dried and cured pot for that matter. After cooking up the oil/bud I increase the temp to 250F so the decarb happens in the coconut oil. I use a hotplate cranked to max but it's plugged into a variac to precisely control the temp that I used to monitor with a lab thermometer but switched to my infrared temp gun as it matched the temp readings I got with the thermometer. As the temp hits 235F I can see the decarb bubbles begin and allow the temp to get to 250F and hold it there until the bubbles wane to very few then reduce the heat.

These bubbles are from the water in the buds boiling off. Once that completes the temp gets raised until the fine decarb bubbles start and kept there until they are very few.

View attachment 5053168

I did do some oven decarb prior to coming up with this method and it works but IMEO is an extra step that isn't needed if you allow the decarb later like I'm doing now.

One oz of bud wrapped and sealed twice then the temp probe from my multimeter inserted into the centre of the mass of bud. The little $200 Oster Turbo Convection oven I bought the wife for Xmas at Costco a couple years ago seems to hold set temps pretty good. One thing to do when using an oven to decarb is to preheat for a good hour before putting the pot in so it keeps a more stable temp and to leave the pot in after the decarb to slowly cool before removing from the oven. I gave it 45 min once the probe reads 250F. That pot was made into RSO using 99% ISO also purchased at Costco. 4 - 500ml bottles for $12Can.

View attachment 5053184

Now I just decarb the finished oil in the same oven with the temp probe beside the beaker it will be in and can observe the decarb bubbles thru the window.

A problem with using fresh frozen pot is the ISO will be diluted by the water in the buds so I now have a fresh batch of naphtha to use on all that pot in my freezer. Water and naphtha don't mix so it should be fine to soak frozen pot in it.

I plan to send a sample of the pot once dried at room temp and the oil made from the rest of it to a lab to get some real numbers and that should tell me how efficient my decarb method is. With CBD oil it's not as easy to tell how well that works as you don't feel the buzz like you would with THC pot.

Have a Merry Xmas everybody!

Print and fold for a unique Xmas card I made 21 years ago.

View attachment 5053204

:peace:
Click to expand...
I'm sure your method is sound. I used to do the decarb in the oven part in a pretty similar way, I think.

Also, I think the concern about over-decarbing and "loosing" thc to cbn(cbg?) is overstated. But again, that's just from something else read (a "newer study").

shredder4 said:
Doesn't sound like they set you straight, lol.

I spent more for a Nova fx last year, Nov 2020. On sale with some extras $280 I think. The nova fx model is bigger than a nova.

I'm not new to making edibles, and have tried many methods of decarbing over the years. But my edibles have never been better or more consistant, for my patients or myself since using the Nova fx.

It may be too expensive for a lot of people especially those who don't use or need much, or you, but for me it's been great and super simple to use.

I use it frequently for buds, sift hash and rosin. I've done 4+Oz of buds and up to 85 grams of hash at a time in my Nova fx.

If it broke I'd buy another.
Click to expand...
Sounds like he was already straight, yup.

I picked one up too. And I've been trying it out. I'm wondering if it's doing what it's supposed to be doing. With bud samples, it "appears" (to the eye, and the nose) to be very evenly decarbed/roasted. But it's impossible to "know".
With some concentrate (shatter) I tried recently, I was almost apprehensive about how strong it would be (great). But nope, weak as fuck. So, now I'm not sure what the fuck is up.
Maybe I *do* just require 200mg of thc to really feel anything. Seems unreasonable though, haha.

@OldMedUser, If/when you "do the math" on you batches, what do you figure it takes you - thc in mg?

If a gram of bud at 23% thca, can convert into 200mg of thc, one should be able to get fully cooked of a gram of bud. (And being able to do one single gram is a reason I got the ardent toy to play with, haha).
 
OldMedUser

OldMedUser

Well-Known Member
2com said:
@OldMedUser, If/when you "do the math" on you batches, what do you figure it takes you - thc in mg?
Click to expand...
I'm kinda f'ed up in that area. I take a dose of RSO every night and can barely feel tokes that used to kick my ass so my tolerance is way up there. I get the medicinal effect I'm after but the buzz is very understated.

The driving while impaired level for pot here is something like 5ng so if it ever got to the point where they make me submit to a blood test I'm screwed as I'll be way over that. Got a speeding ticket just down the road from my place a couple weeks ago and the cop never even looked at me really. Even dropped the speed on my ticket from 126kmh to 116 so I wouldn't get an excessive speed fine with the extra points. I'll set a court date for it and if he doesn't show up I should be able to beat it no problem. First ticket in 20 years and don't want it on my drivers abstract tho now that I'm retired from truck driving it doesn't really matter unless I get more then my insurance could go up.

I'm an old bearded hippy stoner type with hair half way down my back so a prime suspect for pot testing too. lol

:peace:
 
shredder4

shredder4

Well-Known Member
2com said:
I'm sure your method is sound. I used to do the decarb in the oven part in a pretty similar way, I think.

Also, I think the concern about over-decarbing and "loosing" thc to cbn(cbg?) is overstated. But again, that's just from something else read (a "newer study").


Sounds like he was already straight, yup.

I picked one up too. And I've been trying it out. I'm wondering if it's doing what it's supposed to be doing. With bud samples, it "appears" (to the eye, and the nose) to be very evenly decarbed/roasted. But it's impossible to "know".
With some concentrate (shatter) I tried recently, I was almost apprehensive about how strong it would be (great). But nope, weak as fuck. So, now I'm not sure what the fuck is up.
Maybe I *do* just require 200mg of thc to really feel anything. Seems unreasonable though, haha.

@OldMedUser, If/when you "do the math" on you batches, what do you figure it takes you - thc in mg?

If a gram of bud at 23% thca, can convert into 200mg of thc, one should be able to get fully cooked of a gram of bud. (And being able to do one single gram is a reason I got the ardent toy to play with, haha).
Click to expand...
Try decarbing your shatter in the cbd mode. It runs longer and I think hotter. I tried it with rosin, and it was better. I emailed ardent to ask them, but they just responded "go for it". I don't think they tested concentrates as much as they did with herb. On the other hand sift hash decarbed fine in the thc mode. Baring that perhaps get it tested.

I make a lot of weed capsules. I decarb, grind into flower, mix with liquid lecithin and coconut oil and fill size 00 gel caps. I can get up to 50mg of thc in each capsule, but typically make 35-45mg capsules, and since your eating the herb there isn't a loss like if you strained off the plant material.
 
F

Fixable nightmare

Member
shredder4 said:
I decarb dry sift frequently. It just darkens up, and smells slightly roasted. No blobs, rosin does, and true full melt hash, but even if it liquifies if you mix it with oil you can move it fairly easy.
Click to expand...
Hey Shredder, you might have knowledge I am looking to harvest. Can you share how you decarb your dry sift? I am curious about infusing it in honey, love Canahoney but I could do with out the grass flavours in my tea.
 
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