Defending HPS in a LED world

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Blazin Budz

Well-Known Member
lilroach said:
And finally......I look at commercial grow ops and what lighting do these big-buck operations most often run? Yep.....HPS/CMH. They have the funds to go LED and considering the cost of lighting a huge room with HID's.....it would seem they'd opt to go with LED's....but still go old school. Apparently they did some math too. I'm not saying ALL big ops run HPS's.....but many do.
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Any new commercial facility being built is going LED. I dont really see your argument here. You can grow just as good bud with just as good yields using half the electricity. If you factor in the A/C costs, LEDs pay for themselves in about a year. Sure, some people are just stuck in their old ways and thats fine. But LED's are the superior fixtures.

EDIT: This is assuming you are using quality LEDs. HLG, Synce, CHILLED, Spectre, etc.
 
lusidghost

lusidghost

Well-Known Member
lilroach said:
Honestly, Ipower stuff is no where near the top of the line quality-wise....but this gives you an idea of what could be had for $130...and it includes two bulbs...one for veg the other for flower.

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That's a 600w light. It's not going to cost too much more for an equivalent LED, and you'll save a fortune in electric.

That said I have been considering running HPS during the winter just for the heat. I could buy a little space heater, but I'm running out of room in my breaker box.
 
lilroach

lilroach

Well-Known Member
Blazin Budz said:
Any new commercial facility being built is going LED. I dont really see your argument here. You can grow just as good bud with just as good yields using half the electricity. If you factor in the A/C costs, LEDs pay for themselves in about a year. Sure, some people are just stuck in their old ways and thats fine. But LED's are the superior fixtures.

EDIT: This is assuming you are using quality LEDs. HLG, Synce, CHILLED, Spectre, etc.
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I'm sure they are.....and agree. It's just not a cheap initial investment and for a new grower not sure if this hobby is for them, can be an expensive ooops if it's not. I am helping somene with their first grow and so far he's spent over $2,000 and hasn't harvested a plant yet. If he decides this isn't for him he can sell his stuff and probably lose $1,000 in the process. If it is for him.....it's a good investment. If he opted not to grow and spent a fraction of what he did with LED's , he may only lose $300 in the experiment.

On a totally unrelated story.....a friend of mine in Oregon had one good indoor grow under his belt just before the state made rec weed legal. He went full hog-wild bought a small farm and grew 700 plants....only to find out that there was an absolute glut of weed in the state when it was time to harvest. He ended up pennies on the dollar invested and said "fuck-it".

He spent his life-savings on this endeavor and did everythiing right growing-wise......but cost him dearly in the end.

I'm starting to get the idea that my message about HPS's is lost on those defending LED's......and I'm not attacking that lighting. I'm promoting HPS for those that don't have deep pockets or are sure that growing is for them.
 
Thundercat

Thundercat

Well-Known Member
lilroach said:
I'm sure they are.....and agree. It's just not a cheap initial investment and for a new grower not sure if this hobby is for them, can be an expensive ooops if it's not. I am helping somene with their first grow and so far he's spent over $2,000 and hasn't harvested a plant yet. If he decides this isn't for him he can sell his stuff and probably lose $1,000 in the process. If it is for him.....it's a good investment. If he opted not to grow and spent a fraction of what he did with LED's , he may only lose $300 in the experiment.

On a totally unrelated story.....a friend of mine in Oregon had one good indoor grow under his belt just before the state made rec weed legal. He went full hog-wild bought a small farm and grew 700 plants....only to find out that there was an absolute glut of weed in the state when it was time to harvest. He ended up pennies on the dollar invested and said "fuck-it".

He spent his life-savings on this endeavor and did everythiing right growing-wise......but cost him dearly in the end.

I'm starting to get the idea that my message about HPS's is lost on those defending LED's......and I'm not attacking that lighting. I'm promoting HPS for those that don't have deep pockets or are sure that growing is for them.
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so your Oregon buddy spent his life savings without doing the proper research to realize the market would get flooded when it went legal, lmao seems like you’ve got some smart friends. Sucks for him but it’s pretty competitive in legal states unless you have the best buds or the cheapest you are gonna have a hard market to crack.

Nobody missed your message, most here agree that HPS is a great option for some grows or situations.
 
xtsho

xtsho

Well-Known Member
I use HID's, LEDs, Fluorescent, and Sunlight.

People saying one is better than the other don't understand that they all have their uses. For some applications fluorescents work better than HID or LED such as starting plants from seed. Claiming one light tech is better than another light tech is not really looking at all the various scenarios. It's actually cheaper to run an HID in some colder climates because you won't need to run a heater and if you do for much less time. In that scenario you may be saving electricity by running HID lighting. In fact there have been posts on this forum where that was the case. So the argument about cutting electricity costs in half is not true for many. If you have to add heat then you're not saving any power.

Many people have only grown with one type of light so they're going to try and claim that it's the best option out there even when it may not be. Many people using LEDs have never grown using HID's so the information they have pertaining to the quality of the bud that can be grown is just what they've heard.

I refuse to limit myself to one type of light. Just as I refuse to limit myself to one method of growing.

Many of us that already have existing HID equipment and cheap electricity it makes no sense spend a bunch of money on new LEDs to get the same result. I do have issues with heat in the summer but I just grow some plants outdoors and pay nothing for electricity. It's also nice because I just treat them like the other plants in my garden. Just hit them with the hose to water them and give them some food from time to time. Easy peasy and a nice break from the indoor garden. It's a vacation somewhat.

Just get the best light you can that you are able to fit into your environment, fit's your budget, and grow some damn weed. It doesn't matter if it's LED or HID.
 
lilroach

lilroach

Well-Known Member
xtsho said:
I use HID's, LEDs, Fluorescent, and Sunlight.

People saying one is better than the other don't understand that they all have their uses. For some applications fluorescents work better than HID or LED such as starting plants from seed. Claiming one light tech is better than another light tech is not really looking at all the various scenarios. It's actually cheaper to run an HID in some colder climates because you won't need to run a heater and if you do for much less time. In that scenario you may be saving electricity by running HID lighting. In fact there have been posts on this forum where that was the case. So the argument about cutting electricity costs in half is not true for many. If you have to add heat then you're not saving any power.

Many people have only grown with one type of light so they're going to try and claim that it's the best option out there even when it may not be. Many people using LEDs have never grown using HID's so the information they have pertaining to the quality of the bud that can be grown is just what they've heard.

I refuse to limit myself to one type of light. Just as I refuse to limit myself to one method of growing.

Many of us that already have existing HID equipment and cheap electricity it makes no sense spend a bunch of money on new LEDs to get the same result. I do have issues with heat in the summer but I just grow some plants outdoors and pay nothing for electricity. It's also nice because I just treat them like the other plants in my garden. Just hit them with the hose to water them and give them some food from time to time. Easy peasy and a nice break from the indoor garden. It's a vacation somewhat.

Just get the best light you can that you are able to fit into your environment, fit's your budget, and grow some damn weed. It doesn't matter if it's LED or HID.
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Well said....thank you.
 
bk78

bk78

Well-Known Member
lilroach said:
I'm sure they are.....and agree. It's just not a cheap initial investment and for a new grower not sure if this hobby is for them, can be an expensive ooops if it's not. I am helping somene with their first grow and so far he's spent over $2,000 and hasn't harvested a plant yet. If he decides this isn't for him he can sell his stuff and probably lose $1,000 in the process. If it is for him.....it's a good investment. If he opted not to grow and spent a fraction of what he did with LED's , he may only lose $300 in the experiment.

On a totally unrelated story.....a friend of mine in Oregon had one good indoor grow under his belt just before the state made rec weed legal. He went full hog-wild bought a small farm and grew 700 plants....only to find out that there was an absolute glut of weed in the state when it was time to harvest. He ended up pennies on the dollar invested and said "fuck-it".

He spent his life-savings on this endeavor and did everythiing right growing-wise......but cost him dearly in the end.

I'm starting to get the idea that my message about HPS's is lost on those defending LED's......and I'm not attacking that lighting. I'm promoting HPS for those that don't have deep pockets or are sure that growing is for them.
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Your friend doesn’t sound very intelligent either
 
xtsho

xtsho

Well-Known Member
lilroach said:
I'm sure they are.....and agree. It's just not a cheap initial investment and for a new grower not sure if this hobby is for them, can be an expensive ooops if it's not. I am helping somene with their first grow and so far he's spent over $2,000 and hasn't harvested a plant yet. If he decides this isn't for him he can sell his stuff and probably lose $1,000 in the process. If it is for him.....it's a good investment. If he opted not to grow and spent a fraction of what he did with LED's , he may only lose $300 in the experiment.

On a totally unrelated story.....a friend of mine in Oregon had one good indoor grow under his belt just before the state made rec weed legal. He went full hog-wild bought a small farm and grew 700 plants....only to find out that there was an absolute glut of weed in the state when it was time to harvest. He ended up pennies on the dollar invested and said "fuck-it".

He spent his life-savings on this endeavor and did everythiing right growing-wise......but cost him dearly in the end.

I'm starting to get the idea that my message about HPS's is lost on those defending LED's......and I'm not attacking that lighting. I'm promoting HPS for those that don't have deep pockets or are sure that growing is for them.
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I'm in Oregon. I know of several people that did basically the same thing. Wanted me to get involved. Not just with my time but money. I never ran so fast. The outcome in Oregon was obvious from the beginning. It was more a poor business decision than what kind of lights your friend bought or how much they invested. That trainwreck could be seen coming. Every yahoo in Oregon that had harvested one plant thought they were master growers and were going to get rich growing commercial. Many are broke. My money is still in the bank.
 
lilroach

lilroach

Well-Known Member
Thundercat said:
so your Oregon buddy spent his life savings without doing the proper research to realize the market would get flooded when it went legal, lmao seems like you’ve got some smart friends. Sucks for him but it’s pretty competitive in legal states unless you have the best buds or the cheapest you are gonna have a hard market to crack.

Nobody missed your message, most here agree that HPS is a great option for some grows or situations.
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Yeah.....I warned him he was no-where ready to tackle such an endeavor in an unknown market. His indoor grow that was successful was only because of plenty of hand-holding from experienced growers helping him.

Ditto with my friend who blew $30K on his grow room.....shit he didn't even have buyers inline had he been good at it. "Start small" I told him.

There's more stories I have of people not listening to solid advice and paying for it....but now ain't the time.
 
lusidghost

lusidghost

Well-Known Member
One thing about making a big investment is it motivates you to keep trying. It's easy to give up on $100, but $1000 will have you taking a second attempt. I'm talking home grows though. That same commitment applied to a commercial grow could have you one handed hang-leaning off of the balcony of a high-rise while firemen try to talk you down.
 
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youraveragehorticulturist

Well-Known Member
xtsho said:
How would that pay for the light?
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This guy gets some "utility" or benefit from the weed he grows. So he gets "X" utility from the pound a month he grows. Growing more weed means more "utility" or benefit for him. 10 extra ounces from a two month theoretical LED grow is like an 1/3 increase in utility.

Maximizing utility is like the ultimate goal of all decision making.
 
xtsho

xtsho

Well-Known Member
lusidghost said:
One thing about making a big investment is it motivates you to keep trying. It's easy to give up on $100, but $1000 will have you taking a second attempt. I'm talking home grows though. That same commitment applied to a commercial grow could have you one handed hang-leaning off of the balcony of a high-rise while firemen try to talk you down.
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The more you have invested the harder it is to walk away when you should. That's why some lose everything. They first use their savings, then they max out the credit cards, then they borrow what they can from friends and family, then they mortgage the house.

That doesn't just apply to growing cannabis commercially but any poorly thought out business venture by people without any business sense.
 
lilroach

lilroach

Well-Known Member
youraveragehorticulturist said:
This guy gets some "utility" or benefit from the weed he grows. So he gets "X" utility from the pound a month he grows. Growing more weed means more "utility" or benefit for him. 10 extra ounces from a two month theoretical LED grow is like an 1/3 increase in utility.

Maximizing utility is like the ultimate goal of all decision making.
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I don't think I've ever heard the term "utility" used as such, but do understand what you're saying.

For most of my growing career has been all about quality weed and how to grow the most I can. My focus on yield was a biggie for me. After scaling down and just growing for my few retail friends, and occasionally wholesaling any overage, I realized that I was making close to what I did when I had a much bigger grow operation than I do now. High overhead and selling primarily to wholesalers only gave me a marginal increase in profit....and a shit-ton more work to do it.

In a way it was a blessing that rippers broke into my grow op and stole a bunch of plants ready for harvest. I immediately shut down (my state wasn't legal then) and re-evaluated everything and am glad I opted to grow what I need. I am not a pot collector.

My reality is that I probably have 4-5 more years growing. I'm 66 with health issues and sooner or later growing won't be an option anymore. I'm enjoying the extra income (my mad money) but can live without it if I have to. Thinking about investing a bunch of money on lights that will probably out-live me just doesn't add up in my case.
 
B

budtoker221

Well-Known Member
the radiant infrared heat from any other type of light besides led more closely mimics natural outdoor lighting on a sunny day.
This radiant heat allows for a cooler ambient air temp than led, you can keep the ambient air temps in the low 70s which keeps the root zone cooler, creating a temperature differential between the leaves and the roots that more closely mimics the temperature differential between the ground and the air of outdoor plants.
 
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youraveragehorticulturist

Well-Known Member
lilroach said:
I don't think I've ever heard the term "utility" used as such, but do understand what you're saying.

For most of my growing career has been all about quality weed and how to grow the most I can. My focus on yield was a biggie for me. After scaling down and just growing for my few retail friends, and occasionally wholesaling any overage, I realized that I was making close to what I did when I had a much bigger grow operation than I do now. High overhead and selling primarily to wholesalers only gave me a marginal increase in profit....and a shit-ton more work to do it.

In a way it was a blessing that rippers broke into my grow op and stole a bunch of plants ready for harvest. I immediately shut down (my state wasn't legal then) and re-evaluated everything and am glad I opted to grow what I need. I am not a pot collector.

My reality is that I probably have 4-5 more years growing. I'm 66 with health issues and sooner or later growing won't be an option anymore. I'm enjoying the extra income (my mad money) but can live without it if I have to. Thinking about investing a bunch of money on lights that will probably out-live me just doesn't add up in my case.
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Having the option to sell to retailers or wholesalers or whatever seems cool. How do you like the whole legal situation up there? Do you think the laws are cool, or do you have some complaints?
 
ismann

ismann

Well-Known Member
Everyone with a brain knew that once a state legalizes, the market will get flooded and commercial growers with government-backed subsidies will price everyone out. All they have to do is grow at scale and sell it under a 1% margin like Walmart. They can afford to lose millions per year until the small farms are priced out or taken over.

Anyone else growing at scale can't move their product so it sits in warehouse getting stale as distributors and dispensaries are maxed out. All of the herb that hits dispensaries have been sitting for months in plastic before hitting shelves. People who still want the good shit still resort to black market. All legalization did was get the government a cut of sales while flooding the market with garbage.

The one thing everyone is waiting for now is federal legalization. Then all states are open for business -- can't believe it hasn't happened already.
 
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