Defoliation Test

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Bud Brewer

Bud Brewer

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HeartlandHank said:
So then is this area an area that you did not defol enough? If defol was the answer to this problem then why is it on your defol'd plant?

this is pretty common when you alter your plant to the point of having an unnatural number of bud sites..
This I can speak on with much confidence... I am a genetic nerd and know what each of my plants produce... I've said this 20 times, but it so true...
You can get 4 10 gram buds 8 5 gram buds 16 2.5 gram buds or 32 .75 gram buds... the plant just does what it does. Obviously, root mass, container size, air quality, nutes, light levels effect... So say those aspects are met with adequate/consistent conditions... Your plant yields the same..
You can reach a point where you have so many sites that your plant won't even produce on all of them... Like most things with these plants (from what I see) the lower growth sacrifices first.

I've done much looking into this area.... fueled by hours spent at a trim table asking myself "how do I get the same amount of weight without all of this bullshit fluffy stuff to trim?"
The answer was less bud sites. I get the same weight every time. This is assuming my canopy is full. Not full with many many small buds, but full with many large buds. (Less budsites) I get the same weight with the larger but spend many less hours at the table.

I'm not saying you are absolutely wrong.... but... HAVE you tried these genetics without a defol? Or with less budsites?
Perhaps there is an element to my gardening style that is making this happen, but the more smaller buds/less larger buds/same weight thing has been showing itself to be true time and time again.

The factor that really increases yield ime is the proper spacing under the light which is dictated by how the plant likes to grow/branch. The more altering you do to the plant, the more bud sites.. That I will agree with you on... I just don't find it to be a good thing. If I was growing just a couple plants and yield was increased say 20%, then I might go for it. The thing is that I'm not seeing any increase at all as I am already filling my canopy up well with fewer bud sites that are developing larger flowers.
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I defoliated a shopping bag worth at 3 weeks flowering that would be more than half of the large leaves from the plants I should have done a bit more.

I'll still have a massive yield with a big plant to reflower another 8 oz with no veg time but this time the whole plant will get more light I could even get more the second time with better use of the light.

All genetics are different sure but you are always limited by one or more things that aren't optimal if your containers are small so is your root mass and plant you can force feed a big plant in a small pot but give it a bigger pot now it has more roots eats more grows bigger same with light, food, air movement, hydro flow speed or space as in my case.

Plants grown outside have the best light you could ever ask for that moves all day give them endless good soil water and food you could have a 12 foot monster that weighs ten pounds because it had months of veg time and no limitations we deal with indoors.

These plants were given to me by my friend who grew them from bagseed and the biggist one of the three was three feet smallest 2 feet they grew like typical good christmas trees normal nice average plant with two month veg in hydro with a 1000 watt he got over a pound but just gave some away and kept enough for me to restock him till he starts in the spring he does it in his garage summer only and has been growing since the late 80's like me.

I vegged these totally different with CFLS plus a 400 watt hps till it died not a 1000mh in soil not hydro defoliating in veg makes dense bushes instead of trees with more leaf mass.

My friend will have a much better crop this year we are upping the air and water flow moving the res out of the room and flooding the root tray to the bottom of the pots, he had some heat issues that affected his crop but so did I.
 
Uncle Ben

Uncle Ben

Well-Known Member
Ninjabowler said:
I didnt get pics cause she wasnt mine so shes hanging already. I will get pics of the defol plants in DWC and post them.
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Why are you doing DWC and defoliating? Can't you noobs let go of the forum gimmicks, what you consider "the cool stuff"? Ever thought of being there for the plant as opposed to trying to control its every move (which you can't entirely do, mama nature rules). You want to grow some good pot, then go with soil, march down to Walmart and buy some balanced plant food or Peters, and grow the thing out normally like you would a tomato. Wait a minute, have you ever grown tomatoes....guess I should start there. If you're not a seasoned gardener you should start with Mel Franks MJ Insiders Growers Guide. It's sound, bonafide horticulture, not the kind of crap you'll read here at RIU and other cannabis forums.

Good luck,
UB
 
Ninjabowler

Ninjabowler

Well-Known Member
Uncle Ben said:
Of course, what's your point?
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Well when you alter the plant by removing the leaves and letting them return you are changing the rate at which they can photosynthesize. The phloem and xylem system of a single plant will produce the same amount of sugars and carbs throughout the whole plant right? Its not like it will pick teams lol. Sorry UB you need to go one more shade of blue and try another experiment ;)
 
Bud Brewer

Bud Brewer

Well-Known Member
Uncle Ben said:
I stripped most of the foliage on one side of the plants and left the other side alone. Stripped side grew back, bud production was the same on both sides.

UB
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You did half a plant once probably in flower and you are now an expert because you guess they were the same.

Your scientific method is nonexistent with no Idea what your doing or talking about get back to me when you have done something.
 
Uncle Ben

Uncle Ben

Well-Known Member
Ninjabowler said:
Well when you alter the plant by removing the leaves and letting them return you are changing the rate at which they can photosynthesize. The phloem and xylem system of a single plant will produce the same amount of sugars and carbs throughout the whole plant right? Its not like it will pick teams lol. Sorry UB you need to go one more shade of blue and try another experiment ;)
Click to expand...
The xylem and phloem don't produce a thing. What in the hell are you talking about?
 
Uncle Ben

Uncle Ben

Well-Known Member
Bud Brewer said:
You did half a plant once probably in flower and you are now an expert because you guess they were the same.

Your scientific method is nonexistent with no Idea what your doing or talking about get back to me when you have done something.
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It was during veg and like your drills, it was not scientific.

....and you can get back to me when you decide to stop talkin' out your ass.
 
Ninjabowler

Ninjabowler

Well-Known Member
Uncle Ben said:
Why are you doing DWC and defoliating? Can't you noobs let go of the forum gimmicks, what you consider "the cool stuff"? Ever thought of being there for the plant as opposed to trying to control its every move (which you can't entirely do, mama nature rules). You want to grow some good pot, then go with soil, march down to Walmart and buy some balanced plant food or Peters, and grow the thing out normally like you would a tomato. Wait a minute, have you ever grown tomatoes....guess I should start there. If you're not a seasoned gardener you should start with Mel Franks MJ Insiders Growers Guide. It's sound, bonafide horticulture, not the kind of crap you'll read here at RIU and other cannabis forums.

Good luck,
UB
Click to expand...
Things ive growen by ninja bowler...
tomatos
zuchinni
yellow squash
radishes
roses
pattypan squash
chives
rosemerry
rodedendrons
lillys
sage
chia seed
jalapenos
basil
asperagus
lettuce
green peppers
anahiem peppers
arugala
sacred budda ficus trees
chinese pistacio
japaneese maple
brussel sprouts
swiss chard
spinach
red warty thing pumpkins
plums
apples
rhubarb
some strange expensive bush
a salvaged bonzai tree
weed
beets
lemon cucumbers
onions
english peas
carrots
some big ass cabbage
And lots more, im just running out of memory

this year im going to try tobacco maybe....

I like to grow stuff, it makes me happy. You should try and enjoy RIU more Ben, why do you have to a grump sometimes? Heres a couple of pics of my happy vegetables :):):) DWC just grows bigger plants and we all want bigger plants right? ;)
 

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Ninjabowler

Ninjabowler

Well-Known Member
Uncle Ben said:
I stripped most of the foliage on one side of the plants and left the other side alone. Stripped side grew back, bud production was the same on both sides.

UB
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If you did a side by side like i hope the OPer is doing ( i hope ) between plants stripped and plants not. You would see a difference....or not. iDK, ive never done the side by side, thats why im subbed here :):):)
 
Bud Brewer

Bud Brewer

Well-Known Member
Uncle Ben said:
It was during veg and like your drills, it was not scientific.

....and you can get back to me when you decide to stop talkin' out your ass.
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Lets get this right I'm talking out of my ass because I have been defoliating a long time and know what it does with real experience.

You did It one time to half a plant and the yield you guess was the same. Did you not think it would have been better to do the whole plant and maybe do it twice after more leaves grow back, then maybe It wouldn't be so very clear your talkin out of your ass as usual.
 
Sincerely420

Sincerely420

New Member
I'm on the edge of believing that you might be able to possibly trigger a fight response in defoliating constantly Bud.
Have you noticed any increase in resin production after numerous defoliation efforts? Seems like that might be a potential by product of all the clipping :joint:
 
Bud Brewer

Bud Brewer

Well-Known Member
It's not constant I like to do it repeatedly but two weeks apart and in a few days the leaf mass is back and in a week much more then before because there are more leaves coming from more shoots then the original fan leaves would have allowed but by next week we will see what it does.

As far as resin you could be right it is an insect repellant/trap so when the plants are defoliated at 45 days or the first time at 21 it could increase resin or odor to repel the attack but I have never notice much just when shaded bud gets exposed it darkens up, tightens up and does get bigger and frostier.
 
E

Evo8Emperor

Well-Known Member
For some reason I thin UB has it in his head we cut off every leaf as we see them. Through out veg and flowering. If you just cut off ever main fan leaf off the main trunk alone you will see all the under growth grow back in so fast and a bunch of new fan leaves appear from those side branches. While I still cut off mainly every fan leaf and just leave the leaves by the buds and so long as there not blocking anything else.

I only trim after the stretch and here and there if need be. I try not to mess with the girl's to much in flower.
 
Bud Brewer

Bud Brewer

Well-Known Member
Ya many people think we keep them bare no we just create more leaves and stems for more growth.

I should have started this thread next week when some results could be seen.
 
Uncle Ben

Uncle Ben

Well-Known Member
Ninjabowler said:
Things ive growen by ninja bowler...
tomatos
zuchinni
yellow squash
radishes
roses
pattypan squash
chives
rosemerry
rodedendrons
lillys
sage
chia seed
jalapenos
basil
asperagus
lettuce
green peppers
anahiem peppers
arugala
sacred budda ficus trees
chinese pistacio
japaneese maple
brussel sprouts
swiss chard
spinach
red warty thing pumpkins
plums
apples
rhubarb
some strange expensive bush
a salvaged bonzai tree
weed
beets
lemon cucumbers
onions
english peas
carrots
some big ass cabbage
And lots more, im just running out of memory

this year im going to try tobacco maybe....

I like to grow stuff, it makes me happy. You should try and enjoy RIU more Ben, why do you have to a grump sometimes? Heres a couple of pics of my happy vegetables :):):) DWC just grows bigger plants and we all want bigger plants right? ;)
Click to expand...
My, looks like this defoliation thing might just work! Nice veggies, how much did they get stripped! :) I know I wouldn't want some big ass leaf covering MY squash flowers and fruit, no way!

Off topic, but the best mater I've grown in 40 years of gardening is BHN 602. Try it. Next is Big Beef. Works in central Texas anyway, should do fine in all the areas that don't have high summer night time temps.
 
Uncle Ben

Uncle Ben

Well-Known Member
Bud Brewer said:
Lets get this right I'm talking out of my ass because I have been defoliating a long time and know what it does with real experience.

You did It one time to half a plant and the yield you guess was the same. Did you not think it would have been better to do the whole plant and maybe do it twice after more leaves grow back, then maybe It wouldn't be so very clear your talkin out of your ass as usual.
Click to expand...
You only know what I've told you which like everything in virtual la la land may or may not be true. I've really spent too much time on this stupid stuff as it is.
 
Uncle Ben

Uncle Ben

Well-Known Member
Evo8Emperor said:
For some reason I thin UB has it in his head we cut off every leaf as we see them. Through out veg and flowering. If you just cut off ever main fan leaf off the main trunk alone you will see all the under growth grow back in so fast and a bunch of new fan leaves appear from those side branches. While I still cut off mainly every fan leaf and just leave the leaves by the buds and so long as there not blocking anything else.

I only trim after the stretch and here and there if need be. I try not to mess with the girl's to much in flower.
Click to expand...
One of you butchers 3 times during veg, the other just before flower, the other while juveniles and maybe just maybe again if "they are in the way"....while denying the FACT that buds bulk up best when they have fan leaves left all the time. It's all bullshit fellas. There's no science here, only anecdotal evidence with one turbo posting, obsessive-compulsive photographer. I'd hate to see you fan leaf butchers in a chili cookoff, hah! You couldn't agree on shit........you'd all be fighting about when the best time to add the garlic cloves should be, how many, if they should be crushed or diced first, are they best with New Mexico peppers or Anchos, or both, "do we even NEED garlic in Mom's secret recipe......they'll just get in the way". It's hilarious!

Oh, and I get "undergrowth" without doing a damn thing.

UB
 
Bud Brewer

Bud Brewer

Well-Known Member
Uncle Ben said:
One of you butchers 3 times during veg, the other just before flower, the other while juveniles and maybe just maybe again if "they are in the way"....while denying the FACT that buds bulk up best when they have fan leaves left all the time. It's all bullshit fellas. There's no science here, only anecdotal evidence with one turbo posting, obsessive-compulsive photographer. I'd hate to see you fan leaf butchers in a chili cookoff, hah! You couldn't agree on shit........you'd all be fighting about when the best time to add the garlic cloves should be, how many, if they should be crushed or diced first, are they best with New Mexico peppers or Anchos, or both, "do we even NEED garlic in Mom's secret recipe......they'll just get in the way". It's hilarious!

Oh, and I get "undergrowth" without doing a damn thing.

UB
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We all agree with how and when in veg some do more some less.
In flower some do it different just like chili as if that has anything to do with this, but as usual you have know good argument so you start off on some la la land idea.

The big benefit is in veg and instead of arguing for months on something you know nothing about you could have tried it once as it should be done not half of one plant once and you guess the same yield.
 
Bud Brewer

Bud Brewer

Well-Known Member
Uncle Ben;8688138]You only know what I've told you which like everything in virtual la la land may or may not be true. I've really spent too much time on this stupid stuff as it is.
Click to expand...

You actually spent about two minutes doing it to half a plant LMAO and now your an internet expert even though you didn't kill the plant or lose any yield, but you have spent months preaching against something that didn't hurt your plant a bit and I bet there was more branching and yield but how could you guess that with half a plant LOL.
 
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