Did the state make you great?

Red1966 said:

You no longer have the right to due process. You know, the indefinite detention with out trial thing. Also, the Patriot Act. I believe you yourself have posted on this subject? I agree that unregulated capitalism is dangerous, but capitalism has raised living standards more than any other economic system. Socialist countries are worse off than we, sometimes much worse.

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ChesusRice said:

No way
Illegals pay nothing in taxes
They dont have a green card and when they purchase stuff they are exempted
They even get rebates from their landlords for the portion of their rent that goes towards taxes
Ever notice they get gas cheaper than the rest of us?

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canndo said:

Yet again, someone explores the dark harbinger of the destruction of capitalism. There is no provision for our economic system in the constitution. Capitalism, contrary to many's beliefs is not a legal entity. Some actually believe there is the executive branch, the legislative branch, the judicial branch and.... capitalism.

In fact it may well be the destructive nature of capitalism that brings this country down and not the actions of government at all. I wonder how few folks consider that.

Now as I have been talking about here, government's sole responsibility is to provide order. There is nothing about "protecting life liberty or property" as the only right you are guaranteed is the right to due process.

Look carefully at corporatism before you go claiming that everyone who doesn't believe that government is the only danger is a fool.

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bedspirit said:

it's the companies that drive the corruption and the governments that go along.

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althor said:

Well, my thing about this is, anything the government has done for me, I PAID them to do it. They didnt do it for free, or out of generosity, and damned sure not out of a want to help someone. They were paid to do it.

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BA142 said:

I know you're being sarcastic.......but if you aren't, just google it. Illegals pour BILLIONS of dollars into our system. More than a lot of American's do.

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bedspirit said:

Some people look at politics through the prism of corporate power v state power. You don't want to see a government controlling everything, but you wouldn't want to return to the days of factory towns and rampant pollution either (I think these two things are most common in those countries with few rules regulating business).

It appears to me that our government has executed a major psyop on the american people in an attempt to convince them that this is the choice we have. Dems are supposed to be big gov't and Reps are supposed to be big business. We both know that each side is big on government and big on business. I don't see that changing anytime soon.

The real question is, if you could change it, what would you change it to? How do you prevent tyranny from either big business or big government? I read something about Libertarian Socialism that sounds promising. It's a philosophy that minimizes government (libertarian style), but envisions businesses to be employee owned, sort of like what happened in Argentina after the crash of 2001 as documented in "The Take". That part might be tricky. On one hand I think employees that have a stake in the company would be happier and work harder, but a business owner may be uncomfortable giving up a percentage of control in his business. Of course when a business goes public that happens anyway... I don't know I have to think about that.

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BA142 said:

illegal immigrants contribute billions every year to SS according to the social security admin

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Mr Neutron said:

Government, left to it's own devices, will do what it has to, to flourish, just as business. Other than boycotts, what are you going to do to reign in rogue companies?
This is what governments are for. Unfortunately, politicians use the same tactics to get votes.
How many times would you return to MacDonalds if the quality was poor and the service sucked? Yet, the same clowns keep getting back in positions of power which they sell to the highest bidder.
A healthy skepticism of government is sorely lacking, especially in a country with a history like the U.S.

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bedspirit said:

Given poll numbers for most politicians, I think skepticism is alive and well. I think people just don't know what to do about it. we're only given a choice between two sell out douche bags and we all feel like we gotta choose the lesser of two evils. We've allowed the media or the douche bags themselves convince us that as bad as they are, the other ones are worse.

Fuck that game. I'm voting third party.

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Mr Neutron said:

Instead of taking away someone's business and turning it over to the employees, why not create an atmosphere where the employees can get together and start their own business?

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Mr Neutron said:

Instead of taking away someone's business and turning it over to the employees, why not create an atmosphere where the employees can get together and start their own business?

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Mr Neutron said:

Instead of taking away someone's business and turning it over to the employees, why not create an atmosphere where the employees can get together and start their own business?

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Samwell Seed Well said:

WOW WOW, employees dont deserve shit, they have nothing to do with how a company or corporation makes money . . they deserve nothing but a paycheck for there continued service in making upper management and middle management wealthy to rich. . . . no way they deserve their share of the pie . . . good call Mr N, employees are only worth money as long as they make their , few in numbers, boss's really rich . . but they dont deserve to get any kind of recognition or leg up for there labor/job

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bedspirit said:

Woah, slow down there. I wasn't talking about taking people's businesses away. I was talking about a way to prevent the tyranny of corporatism without using the government to do it. There are already employee owned businesses in this country. There are other alternatives that give the employees a voice or a share in the company as well. I'm not married to any one idea. Just throwing ideas around.

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Mr Neutron said:

I don't know what the hell you are talking about. Medicate, calm down, unpucker and try it again, in english.

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Samwell Seed Well said:

oh my, thats a good one, you got me, instead of a retort or a response or a statement just invalidate my words, just like you invalidate the people who make this country what it is because they dont have 5 suites in there closet and a piece of paper with their name and other people signatures on it, from a University/college

without us lowly blue collars you future elite drop outs would be nothing, but go on, us employes deserve zero for what we contribute to the greater good of the nation and its people, just a swift kick in the ass on the way to retirement if we even have social security when im that age or medicare

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Mr Neutron said:

Government IS the only evil we need to be concerned about and it most certainly is only one of two evils, we have any control over, besides our own.
Evil companies? If that is true then why doesn't our precious nanny state protect us? Companies go along along with the plan or they lose their business.
If government was a manageable size, we wouldn't have these problems.

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althor said:

Well, my thing about this is, anything the government has done for me, I PAID them to do it. They didnt do it for free, or out of generosity, and damned sure not out of a want to help someone. They were paid to do it.

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