Do Not Buy Feminized Seed!

Observe & Report

Well-Known Member
This is why horse breeders have to put down any horse that breaks their leg. If those horses are then bred they are likely to have ponies born with broken legs.

Either that or I don't understand genetics.
 

zander19

Well-Known Member
An internationally respected magazine did side by side testing of Reg. vs Fem seeds. Guess what? The Fems had larger yields !
With that said. In all the years I've been growing. I can count on my fingers from ONE hand all the times I've had TRUE, repetitive herming of a strain. That has happened from BOTH reg and fem seeds.
The breeding practice's of MOST breeders is legit. I've done it (the right way) and simply do not have the time or space any more to dedicate to proper breeding practice. HUNDREDS of plants should be started to pick as few as 25 for the project.....and 25 is a low end number for good results!
The thing that makes me laugh is how I see posts here that state, "I crossed 1x with 1y and I've got this killer plant."
Yeah, right. No backcross, no nothing to stabilize, just 2 plants and they call it a success.....FAH. THIS practice is DE-STABILIZING the gene pool! What if this unstable plant is shared with friends and gets out to the public...What if it is grown out doors and a male is missed spilling pollen out for miles on the wind?...What if it slipped into some important breeding? I know, whats the real chance? But what if?

As far as bad seeds from breeders? Seller sites like the TUDE and HERBIE'S are RESELLERS, not the breeders. They get the seeds from the breeders and re-sell them. Do you know what your really getting is the right thing?
Sure, quality re-sellers are out there.....BUT, most of us old timers know of very BULLSHIT re-sellers too.
In the end. I hear of Arjon's "House" getting a bad rap. I've never had a problem from him. I here Doc Greenthumb getting blasted from time to time. Even The old white rasta, my friend Soma, gets some bad lip once in a while. How about Doggies Nuts (don't pop, weak, herms)?
If you run a re-selling op. What do you do with the non selling stuff on hand? Lets look at this problem with Doggies as the example. Their prices are,,well,,stupid! How many do you think they actually sell fresh? If the re-seller pays x dollars for x amount of Doggies seed packs and has trouble selling them. How many actually get rid of them after their prime has passed and get good fresh ones? This is not a grocery store where food has to be thrown out after it's freshness date has passed, because they have very careful oversight by State and Federal gov. agencies! Who oversees the resellers? GETTING MY POINT NOW?

Yes, there is some slipping in of "less" then the best quality seeds by almost every breeder, BUT those numbers are LOW and if you knew the numbers they have to produce. You would understand the minor slip.

Most breeders want to supply NOTHING but the best. If you have a problem with some seeds. By all means, REPORT it to the re-seller and document the contact. If they respond in an unsatisfactory way,,,,,then contact the breeder directly by HIS/HER web site and tell THEM what happened (include the contacting the seller story).
I'll bet the breeder will help clear up the problem.....They have for me, several times. From these contacts (They'll ask about how you grow, what you use and how long you've been doing this) I've been doing some test growing for several breeders over the years and we still stay in contact.

To make any such broad statement as "Fems suck" or "don't work" or "herm to much". Is simply ignorant ...... Your expressing opinion based on personal experience of what? One grow? How much experience is involved?

Sativied's

IS quite correct!!!
people just think you know so much from a first grow. lol think he is just angry dues to him fucking up
 

BenFranklin

Well-Known Member
Yes feminized seeds can be made correctly with colloidal silver, but unless you do this yourself you really have no way of knowing if it's gona herm, no matter how 'reputable' the seed dealer may seem. And if you are going to the effort of making fem seeds yourself, you will need to start from reg seeds anyway to be safe so it's pointless in most scenarios.

Uh... that's not the only way. Not even close.
 

Burnt Reynolds

Well-Known Member
GHS only sells fems, why do they seem to get such a bad rap for hermies and weak plants if the practice of feminized seeds doesn't lead to herm prone plants?

Serious question, I don't know enough about this subject to start making claims.

RQS does fems only as well and they have a page on their site that addresses hermies with fems.
http://www.royalqueenseeds.com/content/51-male-and-hermaphrodite-plants
I hear more complaints of whack phenos from ghs than I do herms.
 

Dr. Who

Well-Known Member
Every time someone gets a herm in a their journal, out of curiousity I ask them if they used fem or regular.
They always say fem.
I only use regular. I've grow for 2 years and never had a herm, I reveg plants all the time.
Unless you're only growing one plant ever at the location, why would you risk it? Just get regs, cull or breed the males and clone the bitches.
What really caused that Herm?......I'll bet it was growing problems ! They may not even know they had them.

alright, where to begin with this mess of a thread..
first of all, most all feminzed seeds today are made using a chemical such as collodial silver, which simply tells the plant to stop producing the hormone that creates female flowers, and instead, it now creates male flowers.. this chemical does absolutely nothing to the dna of the plant.. so, if you don't spray the plant with cs or w/e, the plant won't grow balls.. plan and simple, if the parent plant was stable, which all breeding plants should be, and doesn't show signs of intersex, then the only reason it grow balls was the introduction of a chemical..
feminized plants are no more likely to show intersex traits then regular seeds... it's all in the genetics you start with.. if the parents were stable, then guess what? so will the offspring.. if the parents where crazy loons and like to wear dresses, then guess what? more then likely the offspring will be the same, ie, parents that show intersex will usually pass that off to the offspring, but this goes for regular seeds, or feminized..
secondly, feminized seeds are about 99.9% sure to be female.. i've grown numerous fem'ed seeds from various breeders, and i've yet to get a male plant out of a pack of fem'ed beans.. i've also never had a hermie either, knock on wood, either from a fem'ed seed or a regular seed..
thirdly, some strains are just hermie prone as they came from hermie parents.. some of these strains are things like east coast sour diesel, trainwreck, og kush, girl scout cookies, and a few others i'm forgetting atm.. being that these plants were results of a hermie plant making seeds, usually when you run crosses of these plants, you will have a higher risk of plants showing intersex traits.. but, if you run plants that come from stable parents, then more then likely, you'll have stable offspring.. pretty much the same as people.. you know the old saying the apple don't fall far from the tree right? well, same with plants... yay, science is fun.. :D
Applause, applause :clap::clap:

How about you do a search and read my posts in feminized seed discussions and get a clue about what 'so true' is? You're not the first to blame it on feminized seeds, won't be the last. You're just parroting the same old nonsense and I'm not going to refute that with facts, science and experience every frigging time another clown blames his failures on fem seeds or the fem process.

All you hermaphobists are going to get from me is "Sure blame it on feminized seeds", as it kind of says it all. It's also a nice way to weed out the useless nitwits not worthy of debating with. Anyone who claims fem seed has a higher chance of hermie because it's fem simply doesn't know at all what he/she is talking about. You'll find plenty of support though, plenty of people who flat out choose to remain ignorant. Baffling but "so true Zeddd, that's just horrible".
Yes, yes :hug::hug:

GHS only sells fems, why do they seem to get such a bad rap for hermies and weak plants if the practice of feminized seeds doesn't lead to herm prone plants?

Serious question, I don't know enough about this subject to start making claims.

RQS does fems only as well and they have a page on their site that addresses hermies with fems.
http://www.royalqueenseeds.com/content/51-male-and-hermaphrodite-plants
With that link, you may just have answered your own question and why many GET the Hermies!!!!

I didn't want to say it because of all the troll trash I would get for it, but there it is. In black and white. Exactly what I wanted to say.
In the end, you all are most likely the cause of your own hermie problems !!! :roll:

So quit the bitch'in and learn how to avoid it. :cuss:
 

BDOGKush

Well-Known Member
With that link, you may just have answered your own question and why many GET the Hermies!!!!
I don't feel that it does, the link is specifically addressing fems going herm, I don't see the point of the article addressing fems going herm when it's just listing factors that would cause any plant with the sex switching trait to herm. If that makes sense?

Why does Jorge Cervantes talk about stress testing plants for the sex switching gene?

Will fem seed methods other than CS cause a more hermie prone plant? IE: forcing a plant to herm through stress then breeding it

That's my understanding of it as of right now. CS spray fem seeds are good to go but breeding a herm does increase the chance of hermie prone offspring?

I'm just trying to make sure I truly understand this topic as I'd like to get into breeding in the future.
 

Sativied

Well-Known Member
GHS only sells fems, why do they seem to get such a bad rap for hermies and weak plants if the practice of feminized seeds doesn't lead to herm prone plants?

Serious question, I don't know enough about this subject to start making claims.

RQS does fems only as well and they have a page on their site that addresses hermies with fems.
http://www.royalqueenseeds.com/content/51-male-and-hermaphrodite-plants
Females are more likely to herm than males, logically if you grow (or sell) only females, you get more hermies. You are more likely to find a hermie in a batch of 10 fem seeds than in a batch of 10 reg seeds. Not because the former is feminized, but because the latter contains less females... Besides that GHS is not a breeder but a bean maker.

Sure RQS, blame it on feminized seeds (instead of not using and testing proper parents).

The herm tendency in plants is genetically based on the herm tendency of their parents, which got it from their parents and so on. What their parent were born with (nature) not what you do to it (nurture). When you cross two plants regardless of their sex you mix their genetics. When you force a female to spawn male parts to gain pollen, you do NOT genetically modify the genetics, you modify the genetic expression. Think of it as a masculine sister, not an actual hermaphrodite (which is something else). The genes passed on to the offspring, are the same as the genes were before the sex reversal treatment. As RB already mentioned, you don't change its DNA. Feminizing is not genetic modification (which is essential what hermaphobists claim). It's a far more natural process than it may seem. It is in imo quite amazing and something to appreciate. It's the unknown what scares most people.
 

BDOGKush

Well-Known Member
Females are more likely to herm than males, logically if you grow (or sell) only females, you get more hermies. You are more likely to find a hermie in a batch of 10 fem seeds than in a batch of 10 reg seeds. Not because the former is feminized, but because the latter contains less females... Besides that GHS is not a breeder but a bean maker.

Sure RQS, blame it on feminized seeds (instead of not using and testing proper parents).

The herm tendency in plants is genetically based on the herm tendency of their parents, which got it from their parents and so on. What their parent were born with (nature) not what you do to it (nurture). When you cross two plants regardless of their sex you mix their genetics. When you force a female to spawn male parts to gain pollen, you do NOT genetically modify the genetics, you modify the genetic expression. Think of it as a masculine sister, not an actual hermaphrodite (which is something else). The genes passed on to the offspring, are the same as the genes were before the sex reversal treatment. As RB already mentioned, you don't change its DNA. Feminizing is not genetic modification (which is essential what hermaphobists claim). It's a far more natural process than it may seem. It is in imo quite amazing and something to appreciate. It's the unknown what scares most people.
Awesome, thanks for the response Sativied, I always learn from your posts.
 

kushkilla

Well-Known Member
wow this thread blew up in less than 24 hours! Threw a flame to some ass as I predicted. Theres no need for name calling or insulting the competency of someones growing. If most of you took the time to read the thread instead of blabbing you would see that multiple times I said that I was impartial, and understand that some strains are just naturally prone to hermie under light stress! I can see where feminized seed are beneficial to small grows I just have no need for them because I like to experiment and backcross down the line to refine strains to my taste, that's it. Some prefer fem, others regular. I have had great success from fem seeds and regular seeds, but the hermie plants ive experienced usually come from feminized seed, and all my seeds come from right here in the USA
 

Observe & Report

Well-Known Member
IMHO, the prevalence of hermaphrodite traits in the gene pool is due to the use of bag seed. Many folks, when they find a seed or two in a great bag of weed they will save it. Great bags of weed are, with few exceptions, grown away from males so they won't produce seeds. So when you do find a seed in a good bag, it is almost certainly because of overlooked male flowers produced by a nearby plant with hermaphrodite traits. It is probably not at all uncommon for the pollen to have come from a clone or itself. Then these seeds are used to grow because people can't get any better genetics due to prohibition and/or they don't know or care. Some of these seeds produce exceptional plants that are traded around and become the "elite cuts" that are used to breed, including by commercial seed houses.

Ultimately, the cause is prohibition forcing people to use sketchy genetics. Also, market pressure makes many seed houses feel like they have to use the most popular cuts just to get people to buy their seeds. If you're just starting out or just don't care then it's a lot easier to sell "OG Chem Jack Diesel Cookies" then something from less familiar but perhaps more stable genetics. I think that is the situation right now or last year with GSC. The cut is so popular that folks are rushing to cash in using whatever bag seed crap they can scrounge up.
 

Gamberro

Well-Known Member
The subject "Do Not Buy Feminized Seed!" makes no sense. You're not even suggesting that you have anything more than anecdotal knowledge in the post, so why would you outrightly tell many people who may not know any better, not to buy feminized seeds? You're drawing a false causality in regards to weak genetics/hermaphrodites, I have grown hundreds of feminized seeds and regular seeds and never noticed what you're talking about.
 

BDOGKush

Well-Known Member
I culled both bag seed males I had when I learned about this. Bummed me out but I figured I would just be passing along the herm trait if I bred them like I was planning on doing.

IMHO, the prevalence of hermaphrodite traits in the gene pool is due to the use of bag seed. Many folks, when they find a seed or two in a great bag of weed they will save it. Great bags of weed are, with few exceptions, grown away from males so they won't produce seeds. So when you do find a seed in a good bag, it is almost certainly because of overlooked male flowers produced by a nearby plant with hermaphrodite traits. It is probably not at all uncommon for the pollen to have come from a clone or itself. Then these seeds are used to grow because people can't get any better genetics due to prohibition and/or they don't know or care. Some of these seeds produce exceptional plants that are traded around and become the "elite cuts" that are used to breed, including by commercial seed houses.
 

kushkilla

Well-Known Member
The subject "Do Not Buy Feminized Seed!" makes no sense. You're not even suggesting that you have anything more than anecdotal knowledge in the post, so why would you outrightly tell many people who may not know any better, not to buy feminized seeds? You're drawing a false causality in regards to weak genetics/hermaphrodites, I have grown hundreds of feminized seeds and regular seeds and never noticed what you're talking about.
Did you read the first line in the post? Obviously not. The first line clearly says NOT REALLY I then proceed to explain that the title was just created to draw attention to the post. Did you have anecdotal knowledge of that ?
 

Sativied

Well-Known Member

Gamberro

Well-Known Member
Did you read the first line in the post? Obviously not. The first line clearly says NOT REALLY I then proceed to explain that the title was just created to draw attention to the post. Did you have anecdotal knowledge of that ?
I did, it seemed really random, like you were in the middle of a conversation. Maybe other people understood what you meant, but I quite reasonably did not. I don't think it's good etiquette to give your thread a bullshit title just to draw more attention to your junior (and yes, anecdotal) insight on feminized seeds. But I defer to your judgment, as you are clearly much more emotional about the matter.
@Sativied & Observe LOL don't you just love rhetoric
 

kushkilla

Well-Known Member
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@Sativied & Observe LOL don't you just love rhetoric[/QUOTE]
understood. you guys act like I committed murder or something, im not emotional about it, and I do not recommend a new grower to look to a forum for definite knowledge on the subject of growing, read a book ask a forum if you want opinions most of which are not fact based or scientifically supported. The title had the desired effect, so I can care-less about the etiquette. Made you look didn't it? it didn't hurt anyone except the people that swear by feminized seeds and believe that their choice is the better choice. I prefer regular seeds, but I grow feminized seed to .
 
Incorrect my man. You have no way of knowing if ANYTHING is going to herm without growing it out seeing for yourself, fem or reg. You could use cs yourself and if wouldn't increase or decrease your chances of herms in the offspring, because it's all on the parents.
Erm well I have grown for 2 years with regs and no herms. A lot of people are having herms with fems on the first grows.

Sure anything COULD herm, but you can't ignore those statistics!

Look at all these fem growers defending their seeds like it's their religion, just LOL.
 
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