DWC Root Slime Cure aka How to Breed Beneficial Microbes

dr.medecine said:

Sorry to take even more space but you made me curious again, ZHO for hour 46 you say? I have done yet another thing wrong if so. Is the ZHO ment to be in tea brewing for only 2 hours? I know I know I´m helpless..

Growing plants I wanna do but ain´t good at, I´m just a tech nerd so building a rocket from scratch (no not a coke bottle, lol) I can do just fine but when it comes to growing plants I have sooo much to learn and I´m truly a noob!

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The reason to add the ZHO at the end of the brewing is because those are mycos, not bacteria(like in most of your other products, ancient forest etc). And while bacteria can eat your molasses and multiply, which turns into billions, the mycos cant. Mycos only start that process when they reach your roots.

So while it most likely didnt hurt at all adding the ZHO in the beginning with the rest of the tea, next time you can add towards the end, or like Mr. Berg has stated before, you can add the mycos directly to your roots.

But once again, Mr. Berg started this thread while adding his mycos just like you did, and it worked! As time went on, and he did more and more research, he found that it is not necessary and possibly a little more effective adding at the end.

dr.medecine said:

Other then that, like I said in earlier post I have never seen that slime thingy on my roots ever, doesn´t mean I don´t have it that I do understand! But could it be let´s say Pythium without slime or how does it work really? Besides that I grow in a small tent DS60 that is in a small apartment so I wonder, if I have the Pythium/slime does that mean I am screwed like forever? ..or for as long as I live here or can it be exterminated and if so what would it take from my side to make it happen?
I mean it, you and rest of you guys writing here are my true last hope at this. I so wanna exterminate this completely though but don´t even know if possible or what it would take? Could be cheaper to swap apartment in the end then keep chasing the cure, but first I will wait out the verdict on the tea cause I have seen one pot with dirt where the roots toke off again so I hope for a repeat in coco now.. Thanks you for everything and I´m very sorry to take this much space with the wall of text!

/dr

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I had a similar experience as you. Not sure if its slime, because mine was clear. Not sure if its pythium. Possibly both.

First off, I am just repeating what Mr. Berg has replied, because my questions were the same.

If you have PLENTY of oxygen in your buckets (airstones, etc) and your temps are below 72, you most likely done have pythium (rot). But if you do have thing those things dialed in the way they should and you still are having root issues, most likely it is slime. Slime in my case was clear, and not very noticable until a week after infection. The slime will coat your roots and suffocate them, THEN causing root rot.

So its very possible you have both, but if you have the oxygen in your buckets, and you apply the tea correctly, you should be able to clear up both the slime and the rot.

Once you apply the tea, dont look for healthy roots or less slime. The smell is what clears up first most of the time. it is amazing, my odor was gone in my main rez (which connected to 50 infected plants!) after 10 hours. You will notice foam, varies how much.
Now your roots will look worse, but not smell, depending on how bad/long your roots have been dealing with the slime. Mine looked more saturated and clumped together.... ugly.

I noticed new growth in about 4-7 days, which also varies. That growth should stay healthy if you add tea correctly. maintaining the same temps u brewed the tea in seemed to be very important to me.

As for the statement Mr. Berg made about seeing TEA SLIME (GUNK), it is prob hard to tell the difference for someone who has not been observing/ fighting the slime for awhile. Maybe you should avoid trying to tell the difference between those right now and pay more attention to the other signs throughout the thread.

This is just my opinion, Mr. berg will let you know if he disagrees.

Its a tough problem we deal with on this thread, but if anything works, its the tea.

I am also curious about proper care in transfering soil/soiless plants back to hydro/dwc. I am afraid the damage or stress on roots will cause the slime or something else to attack roots before they get comfy in their new hydro home.

dr.medecine said:

Yeah, prolly to much ingredients I would say, or to little water depending on how you look at it. So few plants so making 1 gallon at a time despite knowing 2 is better, might change that if needed!
Wow that info was all new to me?? Everyone so far have told me do NOT let water level go closer then 1" on a ny occasion, I will try your recipe when opportunity come cause it does sound logical to me as long as the tiny tap of a seedling are in well aerated water? Although is it ok that rookwool cube is 100% saturated all the time?

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The roots need to stay moist. I chose to achieve this by submerging them in water until they are old or long enough to tolerate a gap. Others achieve this by letting the bubbles splash the roots, or by adding a drip system. The rockwool can stay wet with no problems, although it may turn green.

Aouuch, might have killed a few bennies, lol.. Thanks for tip, will definitely mix low ph water with tea and NOT mix directly in the tea from now on! I was chocked how much ph down it took to lower ph with tea compared to clean ro water?? Why does bennies higher ph level so much and why so hard to lower ph?
Saw you writing about a lava rock earlier in this thread, can I get one on ebay perhaps? You just dump that lava rock inside the res then or what? For the bennies to hang onto something perhaps?

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The bennies add buffers to the water in the form of enzymes and other by-products. The bennies will change the tea to the PH they prefer, but like plants, have evolved to survive in a range of PH, so a little adjustment is okay once they are in the res. You can find lava rocks at just about any pet store that carries fish. Anything that is porous or has large surface area will do. Filter mats they sell for koi ponds are ideal.

Sorry to be so curious here Heisenberg but wanted to see if I really understood you correctly here? You dug up plants in dirt to clean roots and put them into FWC again? I had that though myself but worried about destroying the roots when digging it up/rinsing the root base?

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I dug them up and dipped them into water to rinse off some of the dirt. The remaining dirt probably helped to hold beneficials near the roots. They did not have a very big roots base, but took to DWC very well.

Other then that, like I said in earlier post I have never seen that slime thingy on my roots ever, doesn´t mean I don´t have it that I do understand! But could it be let´s say Pythium without slime or how does it work really? Besides that I grow in a small tent DS60 that is in a small apartment so I wonder, if I have the Pythium/slime does that mean I am screwed like forever? ..or for as long as I live here or can it be exterminated and if so what would it take from my side to make it happen? I have seriously started to doubt myself these last few months and this shit is really screwing with my head and confidence! I mean my dirt grows before this was a piece of cake really, not hard at all just learn and do what you leaned till it get stuck and you start evolving from there, easy.. Then my first DWC grow, again took off like never seen before and was happy happy happy, then roots turned beige/light brown and got visibly worse every 2 days or so till I pulled the plug and when taking off rockwool felt the first smell. After that nothing works anymore and frankly I have no more $ to spend on this after loosing so much already, lol.. Your tea is literally my very last go at this or I have to smoke standard Moroccan hashish from now on cause that´s what up where I live, yuck!

I mean it, you and rest of you guys writing here are my true last hope at this. I so wanna exterminate this completely though but don´t even know if possible or what it would take? Could be cheaper to swap apartment in the end then keep chasing the cure, but first I will wait out the verdict on the tea cause I have seen one pot with dirt where the roots toke off again so I hope for a repeat in coco now.. Thanks you for everything and I´m very sorry to take this much space with the wall of text!

/dr

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The slime is extremely disheartening and it likes to tease you by pretending to go away for a bit. If you follow our advice and stick with it you will eventually beat it.

All my tubs are smelling like earthy moss again, and I am seeing fast root development, which tells me the slime is gone. Adding lava rocks to my brew for the duration and then xfering to my res was what really helped this time. Also, the less roots present in the res, the longer it took the bennies to gain control.

As for my shallow water cloners, I am getting results from using a half gallon of tap water, a bit of tea and a tsp of ZHO directly to the res. This so far produces the least foam and kept the water clear. Strangely, I tried 50% tea and even 100% tea, and the water still got cloudy within 24hrs and foamed prolifically, and the cuttings turned black at the tips. Yes the mycos in the ZHO are wasted in the cloner (until roots show) but the trichoderma quickly try to colonize everything.

Thanks a bunch Green melody, really appreciate your time and input on this matter cause I´m still quite a noob in this area myself and had everything from pretty good result in soil to horrible experiences in DWC and coco? ..well that´s still under investigation, lol.. What I can say though is that one plant in coco is smelling, I mean the coco itself smells bad really. Added tea to it today so will see again soon, I did do you like you supposed and like Heisenberg also did later on in adding ZHO at circa hour 46..?


Ok so I should store the tea in room temp then? Ouuch, I had mine in the fridge, silly me... I also have some voodoo juice, tarantula and piranha liquid at home + tarantula and piranha powder, regret buying that before I) found this wonderful thread with so much info and knowledge in. I think I remember Heisenberg said I could use voodoo juice and not the other but cannot remember now? I wish I could at least make tea from them cause these AN is so pricy imho and I won´t ever buy these products ever again.

I´m also afraid to dig up a plant to relocate it back to DWC cause I would probably stress it out to much? Maybe easier to get help if I explain my setup?

I would not exactly say I have the best setup but I do have some control anyway cause I do have a chiller that is more then enough size wise and my largest air pump is (I think?) min 15lpm and max 25lpm, have 2 of each 8mm outlets (one on each side, think it´s called HiBlow by Techno Takatsuki) each one powering a single micro air diffusor. I run RO water that I have measured 1-2 ppm. Other then that I am in a small apartment high up so not like having your own house but I do take air from outside (with a filter sock on) and let it blow out inside, sounds strange but where I live that gives better rh and temps for the moment. Have two fully adjustable fans, 1 is 4" for air circulation alone and a 5" for the cooled hood that is on a completely separate system of it´s own. My tent is only a DS60 but I have modified it myself for this + leak tighten it up cause I have co2 that I have not yet installed. When/if I go back to DWC it will be in a new 55 liter bucket and not my old 20 liter, also I clean really well between grows/fails and always put new hose on between bucket/chiller. Water pump is 2000 lph but is adjustable so good movement and I can even see at surface how water is moving through res when airpump is shut off. Use a 2/3/400w ballast cause need it in the summer months to maintain good/optimal air temps. I also have a 7000btu AC portable AC unit but for obvious reasons I cannon out it in my tent only let intakes suck cold air from it but usually letting hood be cooled via AC is anough for me but also do not wanna run AC the hole time.


Thanks

Heisenberg said:

The roots need to stay moist. I chose to achieve this by submerging them in water until they are old or long enough to tolerate a gap. Others achieve this by letting the bubbles splash the roots, or by adding a drip system. The rockwool can stay wet with no problems, although it may turn green.



The bennies add buffers to the water in the form of enzymes and other by-products. The bennies will change the tea to the PH they prefer, but like plants, have evolved to survive in a range of PH, so a little adjustment is okay once they are in the res. You can find lava rocks at just about any pet store that carries fish. Anything that is porous or has large surface area will do. Filter mats they sell for koi ponds are ideal.



I dug them up and dipped them into water to rinse off some of the dirt. The remaining dirt probably helped to hold beneficials near the roots. They did not have a very big roots base, but took to DWC very well.



The slime is extremely disheartening and it likes to tease you by pretending to go away for a bit. If you follow our advice and stick with it you will eventually beat it.

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Thanks again mr Heisneberg and yeah this imho is my last resort so for sure I will not give up easy. I know I don´t have the greenest of fingers but I truly want to make it work to get some quality weed again. And it´s fun when it goes well, love to watch em grow and I´m like a child at Christmas eve jumping outa bed having a peak inside the tent first thing I do after washing up every day, counting leafs and potentially new growth lol.. Not just can it be fun and interesting but there are 2 more major reasons for me to grow other then that as well, 1 st I wont pull no childish lie cause I simply enjoy to get high at evening after work, I really do, it´s my beer or drink or whatever people use these days and I relax and get all loose in the shoulders from it not to even mention how exciting my documentarys are to watch? I can even think about them for hours after watching, thinking, meditating over stuff etc.. Meditation for me (I should add) is intensifying meditation and chakras are on high alert. Secondly I have recently started to experiment with it as a medicine cause I broke my neck back in "95 and still suffer quiet a deal from nerve pain, so much that all morphine they gave me made an heroine addict outa me in the end and I just kept spiraling straight downwards til finally crashed and burned.. So glad that shit is out of my life after 10 years of it. No this plant is magical to me and I won´t give up easy at all but will keep feeding the tea and following this thread and keep learning from you more experienced guys.

Ohh one more question today if ok Heisenberg? You also say you even tried 50% - 100% tea at some point and the water still got cloudy, hard to understand cause my water really doesn´t get cloudy so far but the tea itself is filtered with new lady socks every time and the guu comes out via sock but color of the tea is always very dark brownish.. Is that still ok for DWC? Do you have any tip on a good filter to buy that is better then a new sock every time yet mot beyond (what did you say now again?) 400 microns? Maybe reusable mesh at 400 microns, Ebay or similar? But also if you used 100% tea at some point surely ph must have been way off or am I missing something here?

Thanks you so much for everything!

hi im new hear i just brewed a batch of the tea the problem i had was i could not find zho locally so i just used aquashield+ancient forest it has been brewing for about 48 hrs i am concerned it will not be compatible with floralicious plus, does anyone have any experience with the tea and F+?

i cut all additives out of my res now and am instead brewing what i call a super tea. it contains all the usual suspects (bennies and fungi's etc) but i also add alfalfa meal and floralicious plus. my plants are loving it.

dr.medecine said:

Ohh one more question today if ok Heisenberg? You also say you even tried 50% - 100% tea at some point and the water still got cloudy, hard to understand cause my water really doesn´t get cloudy so far but the tea itself is filtered with new lady socks every time and the guu comes out via sock but color of the tea is always very dark brownish.. Is that still ok for DWC? Do you have any tip on a good filter to buy that is better then a new sock every time yet mot beyond (what did you say now again?) 400 microns? Maybe reusable mesh at 400 microns, Ebay or similar? But also if you used 100% tea at some point surely ph must have been way off or am I missing something here?

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The cloudy water was new to me this time around. I am not sure what it means, but it was definitely related to the strange foam I was seeing. As I've said, some foam in the res is okay but this was like soap bubbles spilling over the sides. You could see white incorporeal haze barely visible moving through the water, like looking through a thick fog bank outside. This cloudiness did not show up in my veg buckets, just my cloners, which use about an inch of water. It came on in a mater of hours even when left in complete darkness. Out of frustration I filled the cloner with pure tea, and the cloudiness came on at the same rate. Finally I gave up and simply filed the cloner with fresh tap water and left it, and strangely the cloudiness did not appear, but there was some foam. I added some trichoderma and the water and foam cleared up completely. Things are back to normal now. I have no idea what the cloudy water meant, but it is not necessarily associated with slime.

PH is all about nutrient uptake. If a plant is not eating then PH does not matter unless it is at toxic levels. So, in a situation such as a cloner, the PH of the water does not matter until the point where the cuttings get roots. So the PH of the tea would not have effected anything, but at that point I had written off the clones and was just experimenting. Luckily this time around I have a friend with a garden who was willing to take clones for me, so I did not get behind. Filtering the tea is completely a matter of preference. The little bits of dirt might discolor your roots, but wont hurt anything. If you do want to filter, an aquarium net or tea strainer works fine.

Also, brew the tea at room temp and then store in the fridge.

I have had my res water turn murky a few times and each time it boiled down to spoiled nutes while in the bottles.
also i have run across a few strain that refuses to root at anything other than 5.2 to 5.5 ph any higher and zero roots.

i need help. but have no clue of how to put up pictures help?!

dr.medecine said:

Ok so I should store the tea in room temp then? Ouuch, I had mine in the fridge, silly me...

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No no, STORE it in the fridge, you had it right. With no lid on the bottle. it needs oxygen. BREW it room temp, and try not to fluctuate your room night and day temps too much. the reason you brew the bacteria at the same temp as your rez will be is because you want the bennies that thrive in your temps (75-78 is mr. berg suggested benny happy place, although they thrive from 75-82) to muplitply because thats where they will be going to.

dr.medecine said:

I also have some voodoo juice, tarantula and piranha liquid at home + tarantula and piranha powder, regret buying that before I) found this wonderful thread with so much info and knowledge in.

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I dont recall exactly why myself. I believe most AN nutrients have a reputation for triggering slime.

Even if your a newb, this is a tough problem and most who come to mr. bergs thread are right where you are... clueless. Ive been growing for over 10 years and this is the first time ive come across slime. This is one of the worst things i have ever dealt with and i have seen it all. when it comes to pests and plagues the best way to keep them at bay is having a healthy enviroment, mostly good co2 exchange and no stale air pockets in your room. everything is already in there; powdery mildew spores, pythium, etc etc. but good airflow, not too much humidity, not too much heat... no problem. But this slime.. lol.. its amazing really. No sterilizing chemical compound seems to keep it gone, the only thing that seems to work is going back to square one after this evolved cyanobacteria has shown itself in your areas watersource... nature itself. Has your smell gotten better since you added the tea?

slime is under control but now got an outbreak of leaf spot fungus, starting with rust spots on the leaves but spreading fast.will a systemic fungicide kill bennies on the roots? or a sulphume hot box might help but could it kill beneficial's in the res

bobhopetoo said:

slime is under control but now got an outbreak of leaf spot fungus, starting with rust spots on the leaves but spreading fast.will a systemic fungicide kill bennies on the roots? or a sulphume hot box might help but could it kill beneficial's in the res

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Are you sure it is a spot fungus? If you have good air exchange and low humidity, most likely it isnt a fungus. I had what might look like a spot fungus to some, but it was a calcium deficiency from reducing my nutes to fix the slime. I also noticed alot of it only on my indica dominant plants, while my sativas showed a slight magnesium def. Once the slime was fixed (the first time) new growth was spot free. do you have pics?

If you know its a fungus, fix room conditions first if you have the money. powdery mildew and spot fungus only show if you dont have good co2 exchange.

You could use a systemic fungicide as long as it doesnt get in your water AT ALL. but the only one that will work it a room with bad conditions is eagle 20ew, but most growers frown on use of that product because it is only made for plants that arnt going to be consumed. it will work though.

Another satisfied customer!!! Just changed out the nutes- slime was gone, bottom of the res looked like a war zone. roots are clean and new white roots are showing through!!!!!!!! thanks so much Heisenberg. H202-FAIL Dutch Master Zone- FAIL, Green Planet Clean Slate- Fail!!!!!! Heisenberg Tea- Hell Yeah!!!!!

aj137 said:

i need help. but have no clue of how to put up pictures help?!

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https://www.rollitup.org/faq.php?faq=vb3_reading_posting#faq_vb3_attachments

Heisenberg, I just got some Mycogrow Soluble and was wondering if these amounts would be good, or if you would make any changes?

• 3 gallons Reverse Osmosis water
  3 tsp MycoGrow Soluble
  1.5 tbsp CarboLoad
  3/4 cup Ancient Forest
  
  Also, does Molasses work better than CarboLoad? I'm using the WaterFarm drip systems if that makes any difference regarding molasses vs CarboLoad and your recommendations on amounts of each ingredient.
  
  Yesterday I added 4 cups of Heisenberg Tea to my 2 gallon WaterFarm reservoir on accident, and then remembered that you recommend 1 cup per gallon to fight the slime; should I be concerned that I used too much Tea?
  
  Thanks​
  
  

Do you think that there is negative affects if you add to much tea

Also r u saying leave the lid off the jug when u put it into the fridge cause I have been making this tea for almost a year and never left the lid off and it seems to do fine because u need to break the surface tension to allow oxygen into the water for the bacteria and that would be a mess

Green melody said:

Are you sure it is a spot fungus? If you have good air exchange and low humidity, most likely it isnt a fungus. I had what might look like a spot fungus to some, but it was a calcium deficiency from reducing my nutes to fix the slime. I also noticed alot of it only on my indica dominant plants, while my sativas showed a slight magnesium def. Once the slime was fixed (the first time) new growth was spot free. do you have pics?

If you know its a fungus, fix room conditions first if you have the money. powdery mildew and spot fungus only show if you dont have good co2 exchange.

You could use a systemic fungicide as long as it doesnt get in your water AT ALL. but the only one that will work it a room with bad conditions is eagle 20ew, but most growers frown on use of that product because it is only made for plants that arnt going to be consumed. it will work though.

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not 100% sure but had it a few times before and dont want to take any chances. It starts with tiny red dots, which then grow with a light green halo, its quite a problem in the uk with a cold damp climate. I don't think it's a nutrient issue as its spreading to unconnected buckets that have just had a fresh change.