DWC Root Slime Cure aka How to Breed Beneficial Microbes

R

Revvy

Member
mr.bond said:
Hi Revvy,

Your white slime looks totally gross. Its like you sneezed onto your plants roots about 1000x. Haha... just trying to make light of the situation...

Before you added in your tea, did you by clean your rez and change water/nutes to a fresh mixture? My thought is that even though you brewed the tea pretty close to the recipe and for the correct amount of time, perhaps the slime was already out of control and it quickly consumed the new bennies and any residual sugar, compounding the problem further. Did the slime look the same as the photos before you added the tea? Or was it different? (like brown slime instead of the current white)

Also, what kind of nutrients and/or additives are you using? My initial thought is that the tea definitely did not take hold for you, and it seems like it might have been overrun by other bad stuff. What confuses me is that you say the rez smells kind of earthy, and that is typically a sign of a good tea brew.

Mr. Bond
Click to expand...
That's totally what it is like! Still getting thicker but everything else seems fine. I felt it and the stuff was pretty firm. More solid than slime, like super heavy phlegm. The root I examined itself seems strong.

This was a fresh res, cleaned it out with bleach at the same time I started brewing the tea. Filled with ~16 gallons of tap, pHed and nuted. Added 3% H2O2 a few times a day until a few hours before the inoculation to try and keep things clean.

The slime before was brown and lined the walls of the res and roots. It comes after a foaming so that had me worried, even with the earthy smell.

For nutes I had GH three part. The only additive is H2O2. Dunno.

-edit-

Ended up being bad slime again. Smaller roots started dying late last night. Meh.
 
Heisenberg

Heisenberg

Well-Known Member
Revvy said:
That's totally what it is like! Still getting thicker but everything else seems fine. I felt it and the stuff was pretty firm. More solid than slime, like super heavy phlegm. The root I examined itself seems strong.

This was a fresh res, cleaned it out with bleach at the same time I started brewing the tea. Filled with ~16 gallons of tap, pHed and nuted. Added 3% H2O2 a few times a day until a few hours before the inoculation to try and keep things clean.

The slime before was brown and lined the walls of the res and roots. It comes after a foaming so that had me worried, even with the earthy smell.

For nutes I had GH three part. The only additive is H2O2. Dunno.

-edit-

Ended up being bad slime again. Smaller roots started dying late last night. Meh.
Click to expand...
Try it again without the h2o2. Peroxide can take up to three days to break down, so it was still killing the bennies. The myco spores were probably oxidized before they could germinate. There is never a good slime, a beneficial biofilm is very subtle.
 
Heisenberg

Heisenberg

Well-Known Member
So I have been experimenting lately with using tap water. We have been told that typical amounts of chlorine in tap water should not harm benneis. I began using un-aged tap water to top of my buckets and saw no change. No slime developed and roots still seem stimulated. So it does indeed seem that using a bit of chlorinated water to top off a res dilutes the chlorine to negligible levels.

I have made a few batches of tea using tap water. At first it seemed as if it worked just fine; no slime developed. However after a few weeks I went back to using distilled water and noticed an explosion in root mass. So it seems, if we use chlorinated water to make the tea, enough of the microbes survive to prevent disease, but the ones which thicken, strengthen and stimulate the roots do not make it.

So continue making your tea with pure water, but don't be afraid to top off your res with water straight from the tap.
 
phenob

phenob

Active Member
IMG_20110531_201411.jpgIMG_20110531_201434.jpgIMG_20110531_194750.jpgIMG_20110531_194845.jpg

"You must spread around some reputation before giving it to Heisenberg again."
What a brilliant thread. One of the best sources of essential DWC info that I've found yet. Thanks very much.

Made the above brew setup after some brown snotty roots in my last grow and no good pearly whites in the current. 5 gallon bucket, couple holes drilled in the lid to twisty tie a sock or whatever, and a few holes around the edges where you'd normally run an air line. just empty holes to keep air moving, and they are definitely used. strong air movement at these holes when the bucket is on. 1/2" bulkhead at the bottom leads to a valve. A cheapo air pump on top powers 2x 8" micro bubble stones. One stone in a sock with wiggle worm EWC (didn't read the post about ancient forest hummus = ewc until too late!), the other just tossed into the bottom. It froths like a volcano in there.

Used Great White and Aquashield, also a bit of Companion for so as to get maximum subtilis action yo. I spent about $30 on the project, excluding the Companion and Great White that I already had laying around. Everything, including both AF Hummus EWC, was available at a small local hydro store. Dude even pointed me at the AF stuff but I failed to take his advice.

I have two DWC reservoirs that run 74f tops in close proximity to a table, so I sat the bucket up there to brew. After 24 hours it was frothing nicely. 48hrs a little less froth but looking great. Smelled like .. well, like Hobo Ass Candy(tm) .. an old sock stuffed with dirt and molasses. The res in my current grow had just been flushed yesterday so all set. I just connect a length of 1/2" piping from the bucket valve directly into the reservoir, maybe 4 feet away. Turn valve, smile as the hordes descend on the unsuspecting bad guys. Dropped about 2 gallons into a 35-40 gallon RDWC system and we'll see how it does. No serious problem to cure other than the root mass in this grow isn't as large as I'd usually expect. I don't know much though, and these didn't veg for more than 2 weeks, so all things considered will be looking for new growth or coloration changes.

Will be brewing 3-4 gallons per week, enough for all my grow needs and we'll put the rest into a sprayer and see what happens around the yard. Can't wait for the next round of clones to see how the tea does versus a constant assualt of the fuzzies in the clone dome. I typically lose 30-50% of clones to the fuzz. I bet this does the trick.

I will be replacing the sock with something like you were doing for awhile with the paper towel. Maybe a coffee filter or some hose. Something loose enough to let the big microbes through but still keep chunks out of the tea.

One last note - my understanding is that while chlorine will air out of tap water, chloramine will not. I have been so far unable to find out if my tap water contains chloramine. I have been assuming it does, but using it anyway. I run it right out of the hose, add nutrients, then let it roll at least overnight before adding tea. I top the res off with tap that I let air out for maybe 30 minutes, usually 5 gallons at a time. I use RO or purified water to brew the tea.

Thanks again Heisenberg. And too for selecting Heisenberg as a name. Not only is it a joy to see another (assuming) physics/history fan around here, it also makes me sound especially intelligent when I talk about my "Heisenberg Buckets." Cheers!
 
Heisenberg

Heisenberg

Well-Known Member
phenob said:
View attachment 1627630View attachment 1627632View attachment 1627631View attachment 1627633

"You must spread around some reputation before giving it to Heisenberg again."
What a brilliant thread. One of the best sources of essential DWC info that I've found yet. Thanks very much.

Made the above brew setup after some brown snotty roots in my last grow and no good pearly whites in the current. 5 gallon bucket, couple holes drilled in the lid to twisty tie a sock or whatever, and a few holes around the edges where you'd normally run an air line. just empty holes to keep air moving, and they are definitely used. strong air movement at these holes when the bucket is on. 1/2" bulkhead at the bottom leads to a valve. A cheapo air pump on top powers 2x 8" micro bubble stones. One stone in a sock with wiggle worm EWC (didn't read the post about ancient forest hummus = ewc until too late!), the other just tossed into the bottom. It froths like a volcano in there.

Used Great White and Aquashield, also a bit of Companion for so as to get maximum subtilis action yo. I spent about $30 on the project, excluding the Companion and Great White that I already had laying around. Everything, including both AF Hummus EWC, was available at a small local hydro store. Dude even pointed me at the AF stuff but I failed to take his advice.

I have two DWC reservoirs that run 74f tops in close proximity to a table, so I sat the bucket up there to brew. After 24 hours it was frothing nicely. 48hrs a little less froth but looking great. Smelled like .. well, like Hobo Ass Candy(tm) .. an old sock stuffed with dirt and molasses. The res in my current grow had just been flushed yesterday so all set. I just connect a length of 1/2" piping from the bucket valve directly into the reservoir, maybe 4 feet away. Turn valve, smile as the hordes descend on the unsuspecting bad guys. Dropped about 2 gallons into a 35-40 gallon RDWC system and we'll see how it does. No serious problem to cure other than the root mass in this grow isn't as large as I'd usually expect. I don't know much though, and these didn't veg for more than 2 weeks, so all things considered will be looking for new growth or coloration changes.

Will be brewing 3-4 gallons per week, enough for all my grow needs and we'll put the rest into a sprayer and see what happens around the yard. Can't wait for the next round of clones to see how the tea does versus a constant assualt of the fuzzies in the clone dome. I typically lose 30-50% of clones to the fuzz. I bet this does the trick.

I will be replacing the sock with something like you were doing for awhile with the paper towel. Maybe a coffee filter or some hose. Something loose enough to let the big microbes through but still keep chunks out of the tea.

One last note - my understanding is that while chlorine will air out of tap water, chloramine will not. I have been so far unable to find out if my tap water contains chloramine. I have been assuming it does, but using it anyway. I run it right out of the hose, add nutrients, then let it roll at least overnight before adding tea. I top the res off with tap that I let air out for maybe 30 minutes, usually 5 gallons at a time. I use RO or purified water to brew the tea.

Thanks again Heisenberg. And too for selecting Heisenberg as a name. Not only is it a joy to see another (assuming) physics/history fan around here, it also makes me sound especially intelligent when I talk about my "Heisenberg Buckets." Cheers!
Click to expand...
Sounds like you're all set up. If your tap water contains chlorine you will occasionally notice a faint but distinct smell similar to a swimming pool. If you have never detected this scent from your tap water, then it probably contains chloramine. If it does, easpecially with your size setup, you might wanna invest in an RO filter. Generally we don't want to add nutes before adding tea. So if you need to let the water bubble overnight, leave the nutes out till just before using it.

Looking forward to updates
 
phenob

phenob

Active Member
In your DWC systems, how far below the pots do you typically set your water level? I have about 4 inches of space between the pots and water level. This area of the root mass has always been the worst looking. Not horrible or problematic, not yet anyway, but not as nice as roots that are down immersed in the drink. The roots in the water already show improvement in color not 24 hours after adding the tea. Can see a nice pearlescent shine starting to come through, starting at the bottom of the root tips working upward.
 
S

Shafto

Active Member
I run my water 1 inch above the bottom of my pots. Air gap = cord roots, and cord roots don't do anything but support roots in the water, they don't feed.
 
whodatnation

whodatnation

Well-Known Member
Hey Heisenberg :-) Thanks for all you've done and continue to do.

Iv been brewing guano kelp teas for my girls in soil for a year now, but I just finished my first hydro (rdwc) grow and starting on my second.
Im brewing a batch now because I think I might see the beginnings of something not right.
Have you made any changes to the original recipe?\

Thanks again.

:peace:

edit: and on the note of tap water, Im thinking mine is pretty good. It comes out at 62 ppm I forgot ph but after bubbling for 24 hrs or more it settles at 6.9-7.1
 
S

Srgsaibot

Member
Heisenberg ,

Thought Id pipe in and say I retract what I say about 420 premium bacteria, In that it appears to of cured or is managing my slime nicely:) and would recommend it if people cant source Mycogrow soluble as I couldn't. .Seems the 420 needed time to win the battle, as well as a good brewing before hand with molasses.

The slime I had is in my tap water and is controlled by a single part chlorine by the local water corporation(fact).This slime I believe is cyanobacteria and has been on the planet billions of years .All it needs is lots of oxygen and a food source to very grow quickly .Hense when I add an air stone to my nutes in a completely dark container the clear/opaque white slime grows in the masses especially in the 02 rich environments in my system.(roots/air stone) add some super thrive and slime grows even more.Flush the system with H02 , it stunts and loosens up the slime but grows back with a vengeance.

The 420 is manging my slime but I will be moving away from tap water as much as possible.I will post if the slime comes back in the rain water I now using tho I will be using the 420 from now on.

Thanks again for the time and effort!
 
S

Srgsaibot

Member
Heisenberg said:
Good observations Mr Bond. That stuff in the jars looks horrible, and looks a lot different than the root snot we associate with brown slime. It is possible that he is dealing with something a bit different.

I associate slime such as this with a system that is kept quite dark and has had multiple sterilization attempts. I have seen the slime free float, but never to that degree. Looking at the pic of the cord, I see classic slime, and the bubbles within the slime mass suggests vigorous growth with no competition, most likely being fed by an organic source. Srgsaibot, have you stopped using the super thrive?
Click to expand...
YES I stoped .No more super thrive in tap water makes the slime explode.
 
Heisenberg

Heisenberg

Well-Known Member
whodatnation said:
Im brewing a batch now because I think I might see the beginnings of something not right.
Have you made any changes to the original recipe?\

Thanks again.

:peace:

edit: and on the note of tap water, Im thinking mine is pretty good. It comes out at 62 ppm I forgot ph but after bubbling for 24 hrs or more it settles at 6.9-7.1
Click to expand...
Nope it's pretty much the same procedure. Add bennies and molasses to the water and bubble 48 hours. There has been lots of discussion about which products and conditions work best and why, but no real changes. 62ppm is very good for tap water.


Srgsaibot said:
Heisenberg ,

Thought Id pipe in and say I retract what I say about 420 premium bacteria, In that it appears to of cured or is managing my slime nicely:) and would recommend it if people cant source Mycogrow soluble as I couldn't. .Seems the 420 needed time to win the battle, as well as a good brewing before hand with molasses.

The slime I had is in my tap water and is controlled by a single part chlorine by the local water corporation(fact).This slime I believe is cyanobacteria and has been on the planet billions of years .All it needs is lots of oxygen and a food source to very grow quickly .Hense when I add an air stone to my nutes in a completely dark container the clear/opaque white slime grows in the masses especially in the 02 rich environments in my system.(roots/air stone) add some super thrive and slime grows even more.Flush the system with H02 , it stunts and loosens up the slime but grows back with a vengeance.

The 420 is manging my slime but I will be moving away from tap water as much as possible.I will post if the slime comes back in the rain water I now using tho I will be using the 420 from now on.

Thanks again for the time and effort!
Click to expand...
Glad to hear you are recovering, especially because you had the super slime. Good to know that even the most extreme cases of slime can be remedied by the tea.
 
stinkbudd1

stinkbudd1

Well-Known Member
If i wanted to apply this to a soil aplication how would i go about doing so? Breeding Benificial Microbes?
 
whodatnation

whodatnation

Well-Known Member
stinkbudd1 said:
If i wanted to apply this to a soil aplication how would i go about doing so? Breeding Benificial Microbes?
Click to expand...
Simply by brewing teas, but this is for fighting problems in dwc grows. I just pointed you over here because its got loads of info ont the subject you were asking about. Read through, you will be happy you did :-)
 
Heisenberg

Heisenberg

Well-Known Member
stinkbudd1 said:
If i wanted to apply this to a soil aplication how would i go about doing so? Breeding Benificial Microbes?
Click to expand...
You would simply brew the tea and drench the soil. Difference is you only need to do it once or twice per grow. This tea has a focus on microbes so you can use it with pretty much any nutrient schedule.
 
mouthmeetsoap

mouthmeetsoap

Active Member
Heisenberg, I run Great White in my soil and feed them Bud Candy about once every other week. I also reintroduce new microbes to the soil with about the same frequency. Is this overkill, and what are the drawbacks of too many microbes? I know they make the soil acidic but surely not enough to damage the plants right?

Also, does the acidity from pH down affect the bacteria and fungi? Thanks.
 
Heisenberg

Heisenberg

Well-Known Member
mouthmeetsoap said:
Heisenberg, I run Great White in my soil and feed them Bud Candy about once every other week. I also reintroduce new microbes to the soil with about the same frequency. Is this overkill, and what are the drawbacks of too many microbes? I know they make the soil acidic but surely not enough to damage the plants right?

Also, does the acidity from pH down affect the bacteria and fungi? Thanks.
Click to expand...
In soil I can only speculate based on what I have read, since i've only grown hydro. You really only need to innoculate soil once or twice per grow. But, as long as you have good diversity, you pretty much can't have too many microbes. The exception would be that if one particular type of organism was able to grow out of control. Reintroducing them every other week is actually helping to ensure diversity. The plant doesn't really need any microbes in the last few weeks of flower, especially if you are flushing. Also, adding a root stimulator like roots excelurator late in bloom could cause the plant to put unnecessary energy into root production when it should be focused on flowering.

The microbes have evolved to survive in a similar PH range as plants, so PH fluctuation doesn't cause any significant harm. Of course, PH down should be diluted before adding it to the res (or soil) so to avoid pockets of strong acid.
 
BendBrewer

BendBrewer

Well-Known Member
Heisenberg,

I think you have repeatedly stated to keep organics out. I am entering the 6th week of flowering and was told to use a Carb additive such as Humboldt's Honey Hydro. Do you recommend any Carbohydrate based products to use in late flowering or should I not risk adding this?

Cheers!
 
Heisenberg

Heisenberg

Well-Known Member
BendBrewer said:
Heisenberg,

I think you have repeatedly stated to keep organics out. I am entering the 6th week of flowering and was told to use a Carb additive such as Humboldt's Honey Hydro. Do you recommend any Carbohydrate based products to use in late flowering or should I not risk adding this?

Cheers!
Click to expand...
Well if your slime problem is under control, and you are keeping up with the tea schedule, you can begin trying any product you wish. Thats best done in a test bucket. Once bennies are established the slime probably isn't going to regain a foothold, and if it does you already know a quick way to cure it.

Those of us who have dealt with the slime know what a plague it is. Once it's gone we tend to walk on eggshells in fear of it coming back. I have been gaining more and more confidence in this tea as I see it's benefits and learn about the dynamics. Looking at this thread it doesn't seem anyone has ever had the slime return to the point of detriment after beginning the tea regimen. I think it's time we begin trusting the tea more and trying some organic additives if we want. Of course having said that, I at least will be staying away from the two biggest triggers of slime; enzyme products and superthrive.

As for the honey hydro product, I just don't see the need. In their ad they are pretty straightforward. They basically say, this products feeds microbes which supply energy to the plant. A plant with max energy is more likely to reach it full genetic potential, which includes flavor. This is all true, but doesn't justify the price. We know from experience that the microbes we use like molasses just fine. They have no problem breaking it down and in turn giving it to the plants. It's true they like other types of sugars and food, and those too can be supplied via a tea for much less cost.

If you want to use the product you can probably do so without much risk. I personally feel energy is best supplemented to the plant by foliar feeding, and I feel the best product for that is liquid light + saturator. I have never had any complaints about the flavor of my buds, in fact taste is one of the things I consistently get compliments about.
 
BendBrewer

BendBrewer

Well-Known Member
Not sure how much the tea played a part but we have already harvested a batch of Radishes and they are great. Big and plump! Everything else is looking strong.
 
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