Elons Little Plan
- Thread starter captainmorgan
- Start date
H G Griffin
Well-Known Member
I'm of the opinion that this sort of data gathering/spying shouldn't happen at all. I refuse to accept the "lesser of two evils" theory that some "neutral and unbiased" government entity can be trusted, especially in a country that politicizes EVERY office and job. When county clerks can refuse to fulfill their duties because of their superstitions, who can be trusted to be ethical and follow the law?
hanimmal
Well-Known Member
I'm with you there.
But don't think that it is possible to stop it. The data is out there, just by the nature of how computers work. As for spying, as long as people are connected on this stuff it is inevitable.
I don't go off the lesser of two evils thing either. I think it is one of those saying that sound good, and maybe sometimes is the reality of a situation, but is generally just a way to placate one another into agreeing to something that people don't have the same amount of information on and just get lazy trying to work out the problem before they agree on what to do.
This is the genius of the system that we have in the fed that I would like to have in this. The trick is to not think of it as something that is impossible to achieve (neutral and unbiased), but to have checks and balances and accountability at every turn to stop the dickheads that would abuse their offices for their feels.
I would for sure not 'trust' anyone to do the right thing at all times and to never have situations arise that people working in these sensitive fields to not screw us over from time to time (ie Snowden smuggling weapons of mass hysteria to Putin and Xi kind of stuff).
But I trust any of the companies that currently monetize and control all of our data for their own personal profits even less. Can you think of a company that has not been hacked?
The 99% of the people working in those same jobs that are not using their jobs to get their Dear Leader re-elected? At least with the current set up there are laws and checks and balances that can hold those people accountable.
https://apnews.com/article/election-2024-voting-results-certification-trump-09bb9d1fdc11b495b7c50687e5576997
In Michigan’s Upper Peninsula, two Republican members of a county canvassing board last month refused to sign off on the results of an election that led to the recall of three GOP members of the county commission. They did so only after state officials warned them it was their legal duty to record the final vote tally.
In Georgia’s Fulton County, which includes the Democratic-voting city of Atlanta, a group run by members of former President Donald Trump’s administration last month sued so a Republican member of the local elections board could refuse to certify the results of the primary election.
And in Arizona, GOP lawmakers sued to reverse the state’s top Democratic officials’ requirement that local boards automatically validate their election results.
The past four years have been filled with battles over all sorts of election arcana, including one that had long been regarded as an administrative afterthought — little-known state and local boards certifying the results. With the presidential election looming in November, attorneys are gearing up for yet more fights over election certification, especially in the swing states where the victory margins are expected to be tight. Even if those efforts ultimately fail, election officials worry they’ll become a vehicle for promoting bogus election claims.
Trump and his allies have tried to use the tactic to stop election results from being made final if they lose. In 2020, two Republicans on Michigan’s state board of canvassers, which must certify ballot totals before state officials can declare a winner, briefly balked at signing off before one relented and became the decisive vote. Trump had cheered the delay as part of his push to overturn his loss that ultimately culminated in the Jan. 6, 2021, attack on the U.S. Capitol.
During the 2022 midterms, some conservative, rural counties tried to hold up their state election results, citing the same debunked claims of voter fraud that Trump has made.
In New Mexico, rural county supervisors refused to certify the state’s primary vote until they were threatened with prosecution. In Cochise County in southeastern Arizona, two Republican supervisors who refused to certify the local vote totals said they had no doubt their own county’s tally was accurate but were protesting the counts in other counties that gave Democratic candidates for governor, attorney general and secretary of state their victories.
Responding to the certification controversies, Michigan’s Democratic legislature passed a law making clear that state and local canvassing boards must certify election totals. The two Arizona county supervisors are currently facing criminal charges filed by the state’s Democratic attorney general.
Democrats and nonpartisan groups say the thousands of local election oversight boards across the country aren’t the place to contest ballot counts, and that state laws make clear they have no leeway on whether to sign off on their staff’s final tallies.
“Election authorities don’t have the discretion to reject the results of an election because of their vibes,” said Jonathan Diaz of the Campaign Legal Center, adding that lawsuits and recounts are the proper recourse. “They’re there to perform a function. They’re there to certify.”
But some Republicans argue that’s going too far. Kory Langhofer, the attorney suing to overturn the election procedures manual’s directive in Arizona that was issued by the Democratic attorney general and secretary of state, said he didn’t support the effort to block certification in Cochise County in 2022. But, he argued, locally elected boards of supervisors have to have some discretion to police elections.
“It seems to me the system is stronger when you have multiple eyes on it,” Langhofer said. Of the efforts to block certification in 2020 and 2022, he added, “I hope that’s behind us.”
Democrats doubt that’s the case. They note that the America First Policy Institute, a pro-Trump organization run by former officials from his administration, filed the lawsuit in Georgia to let Fulton County Elections Board member Julie Adams vote against certifying elections. Adams’ four other board members voted to certify last month’s primary but Adams abstained last week, contending she couldn’t accept the results given prior election administration problems in the county.
“This action will re-establish the role of board members as the ultimate parties responsible for ensuring elections in Fulton County are free from fraud, deceit, and abuse,” the institute wrote in its release announcing the lawsuit. The group did not respond to a request for comment.
Fulton County is the heart of the Democratic vote in Georgia, and anything that holds up its totals in November could help make it look like Trump has a large lead in the state.
“Trump and MAGA Republicans have made it clear they are planning to try to block certification of November’s election when they are defeated again, and this is a transparent attempt to set the stage for that fight,” Georgia Democratic Party chair and Rep. Nikema Williams said in a statement.
In Michigan’s Delta County, clerk Nancy Przewrocki, a Republican, said the two GOP canvassers had requested a hand recount of the votes, which is beyond the scope of their position. The canvassers eventually voted to certify the May election after receiving a letter from the State Elections Director Jonathan Brater, which reminded them of their duties and warned them of the consequences of failing to certify.
Still, Przewrocki said she’s concerned about what could happen in November if a similar situation arises.
“I can see this escalating, unfortunately. I’m trying to keep our voters confident in our voting equipment, and this is completely undermining it when there’s really nothing there,” Przewrocki said.
Following the Delta County incident, Michigan Secretary of State Jocelyn Benson and Attorney General Dana Nessel, both Democrats, issued a reminder to local canvassing boards throughout the state warning them of their legal obligation to certify election results based solely on vote returns. If they don’t, there will be “swift action to ensure the legal certification of election results,” along with “possible civil and criminal charges against those members for their actions,” Benson warned.
Michigan is an example of the futility of the tactic. The new state law makes it clear that canvassing boards can’t block certification, but Benson said in an interview that she still worries such an effort, even if legally doomed, would help spread false allegations about the November election.
“Misinformation and talking points emerge that enable others — particularly politicians — to continue to cast doubt on the accuracy of election results,” she said.
SouthFloridaGenetics
Well-Known Member
Heard he developed a lisp
H G Griffin
Well-Known Member
That was what I said leading up to the 2016 election: Trump is horrible, but there are checks and balances. The system will keep him from doing anything too fucked up.
After his reich took power and proceeded to piss all over your country, your constitution, and your allies(I'll never forgive or forget my country being declared a security risk so your president could break a trade agreement negotiated in good faith), I lost any belief in the system. It is a ridiculous maze of courts and appeals, all ruled over by a supreme court that is so entrenched it doesn't even try to hide its corruption.
hanimmal
Well-Known Member
And we voted him out of office. So the people did at the end of the day become the check on Trump.
And as much kicking and screaming he and his manipulated cult did, Biden still took over. It has been a giant pain in the ass, but the systems did hold, they at least gave us the chance to get to this point where Trump is not in power and unless we choose to live in a Trump dictatorship or not.
I never had that kind of faith in the system. Anything made up of humanity will be able to be corrupted.
That is where the freedom of the press comes into play. Trump and the militarized troll army that his dictator pals provide tried/are still trying to manipulate us into not knowing what to trust or know what is real, but there are still sources like the AP that can be trusted to report facts. And the ability of television/print journalists to show us in real time how just untrustworthy so many of the people we put into power become.
Today it is pretty hard to get away with shit before someone comes and tries to tear them down. Eventually we should get more and more actual do-gooders in place that it becomes less of a issue (then we just have to be sure to have enough people around to make sure they don't become too do-goody and we end up with some stupid shit like the witch trials again.
All we can do is continue to try to make the best decisions with the information we have at the end of the day. And thanks to the hero's (like Alexander Vindman) that have stepped up over Trump's 4 years (to top off a lifetime as a citizen) of flaunting our laws while in office, and the hard work of the Democratic Party we learned a lot of what was being done and obviously they planned well for the propaganda attack to keep our nation in the best position possible to stay a democracy.
He really has put us in as bad of a position with our allies and every other nation on the planet as possible. If he was a Manchurian candidate and not just a useful idiot for Putin, it is hard to think about how much more he could have done, besides being more prepared. I think about how much better of a position we would have been when dealing with China if the TPP would have been in place, and how much more effective of a response to the pandemic we could have had.
I am truly sorry we did that. The xenophobic portion of our citizens that form the unholy alliance Trump merged into MAGA have really hurt our ability to build relationships.
It is a system build by and for rich white men, and what we are experiencing is the culmination of a 50+ year plan to maintain their power through it.
One thing I do love Trump for, he has tugged on every string possible in the loudest way that has exposed their use of data driven shitcannery in our legal system being used. People are not going to Jedi mind tricked into forgetting what has been used to attack our system.
Im looking forward to watching what comes out of this mess.
I forgot what I wrote, hopefully it isn't too stupid.
H G Griffin
Well-Known Member
Thank you, sincerely.
You are the first American I've seen do that. Usually it's a bunch of "not my president" bullshit, making excuses why they have no responsibility for or connection to the actions of their government.
It seems most of your fellows don't realize that to the rest of the world, your leader represents you. We don't care if their underwear is blue or red, only what they do.
Nugnewbie
Well-Known Member
Must not have liked the press coverage, lol......
Bagginski
Well-Known Member
Reminds me…what ever happened to Roger the Shrubber?