Ender's 4,000w Hydro 12-site (6x White Russian, 5x G13xHaze, 1x PurpleWreck) + CO2!

Upinthemguts - Yes i can lower my flood level by putting something under all my buckets to raise them. However i think the best way to do this would be for me to just plant my rockwool clones higher up in the bucket so the water doesnt touch them. Because right now, they are buried a couple inches deep, and the water floods to about half-way up the cube. However i thought this was a good thing because it gives beneficials a place to culture. Plus i wanted to make sure the first roots that came out of the cube from cloning got wet.. I guess i was wrong..

I wasn't saying you're wrong, in fact I think you're right, the cubes need to be hitting the water level at first or the roots might not get wet at all until they grow out. I wonder if you put your cubes higher up in the hydroton but start out with the res level higher by propping the res up with a brick and then lowering it a week or two in to drop the water level under your cubes once roots were established. Idk, as I said, I have never used one of those systems, it freaks me out too much to have something that complicated pumping several gallons of water through my room.

upinthemguts - I think you've got a good idea there, about raising it with a brick or something while the roots are short, and then lowering it once the roots grow out long enough to reach the water at the normal level. I just wonder if beneficial bacteria would be able to colonize at the rootzone without the rockwool getting hit. Because bennies need something to colonize around, and bare roots usually arent sufficient as far as ive heard.. So i worry about not getting the benefits of using beneficial bacterias if the rockwool doesnt get hit.. As far as your worries of using a system like this, you shouldnt worry at all! Ive been doing this for years, with a couple different systems of the same type, and they've never flooded or anything weird like that. They have multiple float switches for safety, and i personally love this type of system, its great. Otherwise youre stuck with either DWC which is pretty complicated and you have to build to spec, OR if you are using a ebb and flow flood/drain system with a tray, youre not able to grow plants nearly as big, they all are fairly small, and close together. With the bucket system, you can cut the hoses to any length apart you want, whereas with a tray youre limited to the size of the tray. And although the roots have the whole tray to grow in, they also are sharing space with all the other plants roots, and because of the limited space for both the roots as well as the plants, they dont grow big at all in comparison. Especially if you have a monster ebb 5gallon bucket system heheh. HUGE monsters grow in those things..

Anybody else have an opinion about weather or not the water level should be hitting the rockwool cube?

IMO set it where it barely gets wet.

I use a cloner with just neoprene seals no medium except hydrotron to prop up my cuts thru there mesh pots.



BEECH

I only skimmed this thread because I'm growing White Russian for the first time right now and wanted to see some pics...But I run an ebb & gro system right now so I thought I'd chime in...I think your root rot problem stems from the fact that you're running a quasi-DWC system without giving the roots some oxygen. I have done hydro the following two ways:

DWC: I did lots of cheap DWC systems where I'd just put 5 gallon pots filled with hydroton in kiddie pools, storage bins, etc...I always made sure the roots were getting plenty of oxygen and never had any problems.

Ebb & Gro: Right now I'm running CAP's ebb & gro monster and I love it. Better root growth than I got with DWC. The "pots" are basically one five gallon bucket inside another five gallon bucket. The interior bucket has holes on the bottom that allow all of the water to excape after you've flooded it. After a month or so, the roots start growing down into the lower bucket where there's always a little bit of water, but by that time, the plants are so burly that they actually like the roots getting down into that water.

Hope that makes sense...

ender87i said:

partial-update: ive got 11/12 sprouts now planted in their final homes, inside the grow room.
Ive got the co2 turned on, and a good blend of mild veg nutes and additives in the reservoir.
Most of them have their 2nd set of leaves, and you can see the 3rd set starting to grow.
This is only a partial update, because ill be posting pictures soon! Hang tight, pics coming soon.

Ps. One of my white russian was a late sprouter, and because i thought it was a dud, i germinated
my critical jack (critical mass x jack herer) seed.. Then, right when it sprouted, i noticed the white russian
i thought was a dud sprouted too.. Well i've already got 5 white russian in the growroom, and i was kinda
getting excited to grow the critical jack. So now im not sure which one to put into the growroom, either
another white russian (totalling 6), or the critical jack (in place of the 6th wr)..
The only problem is the critical jack sprouted with only 1 contelydon leaf, so im waiting to see what happens
with it. Im hoping it still produces its main leaves, but im going to wait til i know for sure before choosing.
What do you guys think i should do? Another wr? Or have faith in the cj?

edit: Here are some pictures of the two sprouts im talking about.. First 2 pics are critical jack, and the second 2 pics are white russian.. The critical jack actually sprouted like this, with only 1 contelydon leaf.. I already have a bunch of white russians, and this is my only cj, so id really like to grow it, but should i trust it in the condition its in?

View attachment 2291450 View attachment 2291451
View attachment 2291452 View attachment 2291453

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holy shit my c.j. From the same seed bank grew with one contelydon too and its doing healthy ill post pics of how its looks now but i never took a pic from seed would have been cool..

alanboy420 - Weird! haha.. must be in the genes or something..

Osburn - I am not growing in any kind of DWC or quasi-DWC system.. not sure where you got that idea from. I am actually growing in the EXACT same ebb&flow bucket system you are describing, except i am using the 2gal buckets (not the 5gal ones).. Anyway, you say you think my problem stems from not giving the roots enough oxygen, and im curious why you say this? My reservoir is VERY well-Aerated with oxygen.. Its got an 18w airpump attached to an 8 inch airdisc in the res, plus a 2800gph water circulation pump, as well as my chiller circulating slowly. Also sometimes h202 is added. But even when its not added, my reservoir is still extremely aerated, so HOW are the roots NOT getting enough oxygen?

Still wondering weather or not i need fresh air intake at night, or exhaust of any kind. Any kind of air exchange.. But its a closed-room type of system that runs on the 3 primary elements of a closed-room setup: CO2 enrichment, AC/Cooling, and a well-Aerated reservoir.. plus air circulation fans within the growroom..

So do i need any kind of intake or exhaust at night? and if so, WHY? scientific answers please.

Can you show us your air pump? I also think it may be lack of oxygen.

I just found a picture of your air pump from a while ago. It looks like a decent amount of air, so it may not be your air pump. How often do you run the ebb and flow?

Ender87i said:

Osburn - I am not growing in any kind of DWC or quasi-DWC system.. not sure where you got that idea from. I am actually growing in the EXACT same ebb&flow bucket system you are describing, except i am using the 2gal buckets (not the 5gal ones).. Anyway, you say you think my problem stems from not giving the roots enough oxygen, and im curious why you say this? My reservoir is VERY well-Aerated with oxygen.. Its got an 18w airpump attached to an 8 inch airdisc in the res, plus a 2800gph water circulation pump, as well as my chiller circulating slowly. Also sometimes h202 is added. But even when its not added, my reservoir is still extremely aerated, so HOW are the roots NOT getting enough oxygen?

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My bad. Then I wouldn't say it's lack of oxygen. Probably overwatering and maybe that white stuff on top of the hydroton... I don't have any experience with the two gallon pots, but I don't water three times a day with the five gallon pots until the plants are usually a month into flower. I've found that it's very easy to overwater with the ebb & gro so I err on the side of less water until the plants really explode. I veg my plants in rockwool for 3 weeks and then put the 4 x 4 cubes in the buckets, top the plants, and begin flower with this water and nutrient schedule:

Week 1: 15min x 1; 4mL micro, 8mL bloom
Week 2: 30min x 1; 5mL micro, 10mL bloom
Week 3: 15min x 2; 6mL micro, 12mL bloom
Week 4: 30min x 2; 7mL micro, 14mL bloom
Week 5 - 8: 30min x 3; 8mL micro, 16mL bloom

Still wondering weather or not i need fresh air intake at night, or exhaust of any kind. Any kind of air exchange.. But its a closed-room type of system that runs on the 3 primary elements of a closed-room setup: CO2 enrichment, AC/Cooling, and a well-Aerated reservoir.. plus air circulation fans within the growroom..

So do i need any kind of intake or exhaust at night? and if so, WHY? scientific answers please.

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I've been running a sealed room for a couple of years now and I love the larger yields and paying less for CO2, but they can be a pain to dial in at first and a real money pit. The first purchase I should have made for my sealed room is an iPonic 600 environmental controller. I've used it for the last two runs and wish I would have had it from the beginning. Without a good controller, sealed rooms can sometimes do more harm than good.

FriendlyCaregiver - Its an 18w commercial air1 pump, it puts out plenty of oxygen to an 8 inch air disc in the reservoir. On top of that i run a 2800gph water circulation pump, as well as a water chiller. So all of that in combination creates plenty of aeration. In response to your other question, i was filling every 4 hours for 15 minute intervals.

Osburn - I was watering every 4 hours for 15 minutes at a time, which ive always done with no problems. And that "white stuff" is perlite lol, which is above the water level, and should play no role whatsoever in any problems im having. While i respect your regimen with timing, it seems like a very small amount of watering for an ebb and flow system. Most would say 3-4 times a day is the norm for these types of systems. But if youre having good results, i cant argue with that. However they may benefit from a little bit of extra flooding. And the 30 minute flood worries me a little bit because thats a long time for them to be submerged, and it also gives the water a long time to settle sediment to the bottoms of your buckets. Have you had any problems with sediment at the bottom of your buckets? If so this may be why. On a final note, i would invest in an environmental controller if i needed it, but my temperature and humidity stays pretty stable without one, so i dont think its necessary.

If anybody has a scientific answer to weather a closed-room CO2 setup needs to be exhausted, or receive intake, at any time even just at night, id still love to hear your reasoning.

Its not a matter of if the C02 is in the room or not. Its a matter of filtration in the room. If you want a sealed room, you HAVE TO HAVE a way of air filtration. It is a must to do a CEA (controlled environment agriculture). The most common way to do it is to run a carbon filter, and turn on CO2 when the filter is off, and run them with interchanging times. Also, I still think it was the aeration of your roots that caused the stunts. I believe that whatever medium you use does not allow oxygen to get to your roots when they are not submerged. But i need more pictures to really be sure.

Sorry i dont have any scientific proof/evidence but im sure its out there on co2. To my understanding you should keep your room completely sealed at all times. Im running a 11x9x8 sealed room with tank co2. I have my co2 controller set at 1200-1500 ppm and i have it turn off an hour before lights go out.

i do this because once at night your plants dont need co2, they need oxygen. So in that last hour they use up the remaining co2 and the sealed room becomes filled with oyxgen the plants emmitted and thats enough for the whole night cycle until lights and co2 turn on again

the reason i dont like having vents and stuff is because now your clean and sterile grow enviornment has been infultrated with whatever is in the air. You can avoid that problem by putting an intake filter but there are other problems that occur with intake on a sealed room

another problem would be the temp of the air your bringing in. I have a mini split and it keeps my temps perfect at all times. Also humidity could be a problem depending on where you live.. My dehumidifier only has to work on the air inside my room and none that would be brought in at night

anyways.... If you want total control of your sealed room you should keep it sealed through and through. Just my two sense.

Happy Growing!

I agree with everything you've said..

Except my co2 controller turns off right when the lights do, and believe it or not the co2 reading drops to baseline shortly after. So turning off co2 an hour before shouldn't make a difference. I'd keep it on til like 15 before lights off. Just fyi.

Sorry if this has been asked and answered, it's late, and I just read the 1st couple of pages and wondering if you're having any major issues. Just saw you were doing rockwool in hydroton, and if this is working I would be very surprised! Rockwool takes days to dry out and hydroton takes hours to dry out. I would think you would be strangling your roots with water at their most important location, where they come out. I'll finish reading tomorrow, but if you're not too far along I would do whatever it takes to change that setup if at all possible. It would be a slow death and would suck to put a bunch of money and electric into it.

If for some crazy reason it's working out, I will definitely read this thread. It just seems to defy logic a little too much. I don't know if you're thinking the rockwool will support them better or what, but you need all your medium to dry and need water at the same rate. Years ago when I used hydroton (got sick of dealing with those dam balls), I would just stick the clone right into em. The non dense Oasis works good, but even the denser stuff I noticed slowed down my cycle. Nothing like I would imagine rockwool would. never had any issues with it. The best way, is bare root them if you're using hydroton. The roots will support it fine .