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Man, this growbox I was growing in is so damn small! I set the screen 13 inches above my 5 gallon pot. I started off doing an LED experiment, then expanded to a bigger grow. You guys can see both of them in my signature. The tallest colas are 14 inches, with the other ones at 9-10 inches. Luckily im using LED lights cuz I am like 3 inches away from the light! Trial and error

Robert Paulson said:

Yo Sleezy1, those babies look great. they look very similar to my purp kush. they also stretched way above the screen. how tall above the screen were they when you switched to 12/12?

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They were about 2 inches above the screen, switched at 70% full. Check out my full grow journal on my sig.

woodsmantoker said:

"The shortest point from A to B is a strait line, thus spiraling growth takes longer. Low Stress Training occurs during SCROG. Most of my plants however do get trained prior to entering the scrog. Directing branches outward will achieve uniformity at a much faster rate than the suggested image above."

Reading through some of the early pages of this thread will introduce you to LSTing with scrog. Many cultivationists here have implemented the techniques successfully.

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It makes since just like one thread I read that described a method of topping to get rid of problems with the main cola and the other shoots getting to the screen in similar time it seems that making a bushy base at the bottom would allow your screen to rise to a much more manageable canopy to work with.

brandon727272 said:

I know this has probably been asked and answered already... But do people use the Scrog technique outdoors? I'm concerned about height of plants and this seems like a great way to control it.

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No reply, scrog is still a big option for my girls in the ground and I had a few questions about the yield scrogging produces. Would a plant harvest a higher yield topped and LST'd, or topped and then laced through chicken wire? I'm trying to keep my plants under 3 feet tall but trying to still get a nice harvest. Thanks guys, +rep.

brandon727272 said:

No reply, scrog is still a big option for my girls in the ground and I had a few questions about the yield scrogging produces. Would a plant harvest a higher yield topped and LST'd, or topped and then laced through chicken wire? I'm trying to keep my plants under 3 feet tall but trying to still get a nice harvest. Thanks guys, +rep.

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It might depend on genetics... maybe some strains dont take well to any form of training.

brandon727272 said:

No reply, scrog is still a big option for my girls in the ground and I had a few questions about the yield scrogging produces. Would a plant harvest a higher yield topped and LST'd, or topped and then laced through chicken wire? I'm trying to keep my plants under 3 feet tall but trying to still get a nice harvest. Thanks guys, +rep.

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Place your screen and keep working your tops outward filling your surface space (even the tops in the center of your screen). Do not however, allow the tops to remain through the screen until you are nearing the photo-period. Pull them back through, and bend them outward to a new hole during vegg. Once your plant shows signs of flowering, allow the plant to grow through. You will most likely need a secondary screen to support the weight of toppling colas above the screen. Introduce a large mesh 6" or larger; typically does well with most strains. You will love your outdoor carpet of ganja come fall! ENJOY

Scrog is a constant form of LST (low stress training). Cannabis under stress produces "chemical hormones" called auxin. Levels of auxin can produce various results. Large robust growth rates, expedited flowering, as well as hermaphroditic results. Knowing what your strain handles helps in determining a good scrog strain. Outdoors, wind and weather play key roles in preparing plants for bearing weight of fruits by conditioning the plant in a manner that produces structural stability under those condition. SCROG outdoors can do several things for a gardener besides keep things nice and neat. Understanding how and why will give you a better idea of what to do with your outdoor crops. I scrog outdoor. And not just Cannabis!

Why LST Works
One of the #1 things you need to understand about LST: auxins. If you don’t understand them, then you are just putting strings on your plant so they look like other plants in pictures.
Auxins are plant hormones that interact with other plant hormones to form the “plant nervous system” in the most simplest terms. Auxins are used to help stimulate nearly all facets of plant growth. Auxins are used to help promote new root growth and is often part of what is used in rooting compounds or rooting hormones that are so popular in marijuana horticulture. There has also been research (in the 50s I believe) that indicates that levels of auxins also influence the sex of a marijuana plant. Some research has also indicated that levels of auxins also play a role in the ways flowers mature on a plant.
Most of all, auxins, in marijuana plants, are known for producing adventiti ous buds along the stem and in the roots. Adventitious is sort of like it sounds: it’s the “adventurous” part of the plant that sprouts when the plant is wounded or trained. With LST, it is not as simple as: “Make more auxins. Plant grow big.”
So why did we learn about auxins if we’re not going to be making more of them? I mean, more is good when it comes to marijuana right?! Well: no, not in this case. This part is important so pay attention: auxins are most concentrated (and synthesized) at the apical bud or the tip of the plant closest to the light. The rest of the plant has the ability to produce auxins, but the cells must be triggered to do so. Now, although auxins are hormones essential for many facets of growth, it is also an inhibiting hormone for the other buds further down the stem. This is to prevent the plant from producing buds which may compete with the apical bud.
In other words: The plant is very happy having one bud that it tries to stretch as close as possible to its source of energy. It will do what it can to inhibit other sprouts below it from becoming that bud as it would require the plant to push those sprouts up to that level again. If you are still a bit confused, think of images of trees and picture the growth that they have in a cone-shaped fashion. They are working to push the apical bud up to the sky.
Now that you understand what auxins are and how they are important for growth in marijuana, you can begin to understand how LST works.

How LST Works
This is where I get to those people who were saying “Topping and LST aren’t even close. You’re full of crap.”
When you top a plant, you are removing the apical bud (the bud closest to the light) where most of the auxin is concentrated and synthesized. The plant stresses itself out (high stress training) and eventually produces new sprouts along the stem that will form new growth so that it can get a new apical bud and send it soaring towards the heavens.
LST is helping to stimulate that growth near the bottom but by tricking the plant instead of chopping it. In nature, if something happens to a plant and the bud that is closest to the light gets blocked, it will try to move around that something. If it can’t, then eventually new growth will form lower along the stem to try and send a new shoot out to head towards the light.
When you LST, the reason that you are tying the tip of the plant down is so that the plant gets confused. It is used to producing the auxins in the tip of the plant close to the light. However, because the tip of the plant is pulled down to such a degree, it is not receiving light at the very tip like it used to so it sends the auxins down the stem to produce new sprouts to become new apical buds (or so the plant hopes).
This is why some people continue training as the plant gets older, but like to start when the plant is new as auxin development starts with roots and continues through all stages of the plant. Continued training of the plant is helpful because, as you can imagine, each apical tip can be brought down to promote new growth further down the stem. Every time you bring the tip down, the plant will be fooled. As new tips of the plant are reaching towards the light, pulling them back down below 90 degrees (or close to it) will make those auxins start to flow again. This can continue on and on.
Now that you know how LST works, you don’t even need a picture to look at. You just know that you need to trick the plant into thinking it’s highest tip is no longer its highest tip. It’s as simple as that, but it is also as complex as you want it to be.

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Get the point?

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Jacks Cleaner 2

Take Care Folks! Love ya like a family!

whodatnation said:

Hey sgroggers!
Heres my next adventure, fingers crossed.

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I really like the look of this set up can't wait to see it progress - STELTHY

View attachment 1631105View attachment 1631106WHODAT - Problems I see.

bigbud888 said:

Has anyone incorporated LSTing and SCROGing?​

Should make for some monster plants.
I'm going to do a miniature version with one of my plants on my
LST Chronicle Journal!!​

https://www.rollitup.org/advanced-marijuana-cultivation/435436-lst-chronicle.html#post5797004​

I think I got some chicken wire in the garage!! ​

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I like to lst my plants before I put the screen over them, the I take off the ties before I put the screen over. That way the lower branches are already pretty long from the start. But I like a low screen, like 6 to 8 inches above the soil line.
Also, I don't bend branches back down under the screen. I found I would accidentally tear off leaves and break stems. Yeah if you catch it early it shouldn't be a problem, but scrog is already a bit of a PITA, why make it harder than it already is?
I let branches grow through, and then tie them down on top of the screen. Here's my plants yesterday.
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Beanz

woodsmantoker said:

Take Care Folks! Love ya like a family!

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Woodsman - Thank you so much for the great description! How you described the transfer of auxins to different parts of the plant based on how you treat the plant totally made sense to me and helped me understand what the main purpose of this technique was and how it is accomplished. I think I will be definitely setting up my plants in the ground as a scrog, I'll be sure to post pics here as the process takes place! The only thing I'm still not sure about after reading your post is whether there's an advantage between LST'ing and topping. I still have a few weeks until my girls get to the height where I would top/LST anyway, so I have some time to research. Thanks again man!

Beansly said:

I like to lst my plants before I put the screen over them, the I take off the ties before I put the screen over. That way the lower branches are already pretty long from the start. But I like a low screen, like 6 to 8 inches above the soil line.
Also, I don't bend branches back down under the screen. I found I would accidentally tear off leaves and break stems. Yeah if you catch it early it shouldn't be a problem, but scrog is already a bit of a PITA, why make it harder than it already is?
I let branches grow through, and then tie them down on top of the screen. Here's my plants yesterday.

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Beansly said:

To solve your problem and save you from your tie down derby, use larger screen....Imagine a commercial scale garden, your the cultivationist and the garden owner says scrog my 60 plants....I bet I beat you to the finish line!

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LST vs Topping / Difference in recovery time.

Whats faster, standing up from a push down or growing your head back? Even with a transfer of auxin to lower branches, your plant is damaged and will send auxin to repair it....a bit wasted in my mind.

A good breeder will tell you what the strain you are choosing likes best when he/she sells it to you (example: TGA genetics VORTEX). Most good scrog strains will have a note that says something along the lines of: "best un-topped and vegged into a bush" for good reason.

The only thing I'm still not sure about after reading your post is whether there's an advantage between LST'ing and topping. I still have a few weeks until my girls get to the height where I would top/LST anyway, so I have some time to research. Thanks again man!

There is no reason to wait to LST. You can bend a seedling over and gain the same response. The early stress will also help sex plants more quickly in some strains. I wouldn't suggest topping a seedling...seeing the advantages?

BEANSLY: Plants looking super healthy! Great Job!

Your technique will obviously work, and you will be sitting pretty in the end there is no doubt. Enjoy!

For the next person questioning what strain to purchase: KABOOM by TGA - first person to scrog her here gets a double bump from me.

woodsmantoker said:

View attachment 1631105View attachment 1631106WHODAT - Problems I see.

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Thanks woodsman, the reflector will be removed once the plants get going good... cool tubes have horrible footprints anyway... plus they are already reaching the points you pointed out As for the top portion, I'll be adding an extra fan, so between that and the big ass ac you see in the background I should be alright. Thanks for taking the time to make suggestions bro.