Uncle Ben
Well-Known Member
Looks like they are there to me.I wish I wouldn't have cut any leaves off....
Fan Leafs. Blockers of Light Or Energy Producers???
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Uncle Ben
Well-Known Member
Curious, what's that supposed to mean?
stumpjumper
Well-Known Member
Nothing really but I've never grown a Haze that wasn't covered in trichs....
zack66
Well-Known Member
I've tried removing some before and wasn't really happy with the end results. Even waited till the last couple weeks in flower to remove them. Results were fair at best. This run i'm leaving all the leaves to do a comparison. Purple Kush 7 weeks since switch to 12/12. They seem happier with the leaves on.
Uncle Ben
Well-Known Member
I seriously doubt if you've ever grown out anything but a mutt. The ONLY true, pure Haze, a sativa hybrid, as done by the Haze brothers of Santa Cruz is Acapulco Gold X Col. Gold X (S. Indian X Thai). True sativas have trichomes, naturally, but they're just damned hard to see with the naked eye. I've grown out plenty both indoors and out now and they're all the same. Some of those would be old Mex, Zamal and Vietnamese Dalat.....all which I currently stock.
UB
crazyhazey
Well-Known Member
ahahaha do you ever stop with you "it's science" bullshit? plants naturally use their own energy source towards the end of its life, 2 weeks from harvest it should be yellowing and going into overdrive to swell, this means eliminating the less significant leaves(why it starts from the bottom). you may not see yellowing leaves on your bushes because you dont defoliate at all, somewhere in that clusterfuck of leaves they're there, or your feeding your plants way too much N. even when feeding nutrients your leaves should turn yellow towards harvest(not nearly any N is used for flower, N is for new leaf growth and branches, not resin, trichs, etc., if you do feed too much N during flower buds wont swell as much since they'll want to put energy towards new growth, why i always look for more p and k after the first 2-3 weeks of flower), its not the fact its underfed, it just wants to use every last bit of energy it can receive not through its root system, every other plant in nature does about the same thing, why do you think tree leaves change color in the spring? same damn reason, they're ready to be finished, leaves store energy not just to be trimmed off later, and if they're not yellowing then they're just retaining energy that should be getting killed off by the plant and put towards bud growth. you keep claiming to have more grow experience but you told me plants yield well in shadows and that the plant focuses on what was produced first but not rather which point photosynthesizes more. give me a break dude, you do a good share of talking straight outta your ass, go on and call names, i dont need to insult you, ill let everyone else do that, i dont need to establish anything. now, why should i talk to a mexican grower or a tobacco grower? do they grow schwag as good as your haze?Wrong....
As I've said a million times, by maintaining the most amount of green healthy fan leaves until harvest you maximize yields as MY anecdotal evidence bears out via photos I've posted for many years. It's science, shit-fer-brains, not some noobie herd mentality. https://www.rollitup.org/general-marijuana-growing/9114-spin-out-chemical-root-pruning.html
Again, you have confirmed my explanation for your lack of horticultural success via the common argument/justification you see often around these parts with folks that don't know what they're doing - you fuck up your plants inducing premature leaf necrosis which naturally compromises your yields and then try to pass off your weaknesses with some lame bullshit that your weed somehow tastes better because it doesn't have any fan leaves (which aren't smoked anyway). Suggest you talk to a Mexican pot grower or a Virginia tobacco grower.
You're a liar and a pussy too.
Uncle Ben
crazyhazey
Well-Known Member
if you overfeed N youll have a lot more chlorophyll to deal with and not nearly as much trichs, less leaf matter in general on your bud will affect taste in general but feeding too much N makes your buds harsher. cure for months and im sure the taste will still be not as good as a plant that was allowed to fully mature, if the plant knew it only had a week or two left it would have killed off the leaves for energy and went into overdrive for swelling/resin output which, any plant with all green leaves at harvest should probably be left alone for another week or two, that doesnt sound finished to me, plants dont just store energy so it can be thrown away.actually, if you do a proper cure after harvest, that will remove the chlorophyll/hay taste in your buds
**having green leaves up until harvest is not the reason your buds taste like schwagg, its because you did not harvest/cure properly..
Kite High
Well-Known Member
I know I love micro-kote...another brand but same as spin out...and yes green leaves to harvest=most yield...can't get around it...it is just the way a plant works...and the taste is all in the dry/cure...you can't wash anything outta da plant...and starving it will fuck it up not help...Wrong....
As I've said a million times, by maintaining the most amount of green healthy fan leaves until harvest you maximize yields as MY anecdotal evidence bears out via photos I've posted for many years. It's science, shit-fer-brains, not some noobie herd mentality. https://www.rollitup.org/general-marijuana-growing/9114-spin-out-chemical-root-pruning.html
Again, you have confirmed my explanation for your lack of horticultural success via the common argument/justification you see often around these parts with folks that don't know what they're doing - you fuck up your plants inducing premature leaf necrosis which naturally compromises your yields and then try to pass off your weaknesses with some lame bullshit that your weed somehow tastes better because it doesn't have any fan leaves (which aren't smoked anyway). Suggest you talk to a Mexican pot grower or a Virginia tobacco grower.
You're a liar and a pussy too.
Uncle Ben
perdrick l. hapley
Active Member
you write like a 10 year old. quit posing......Wrong....
As I've said a million times, by maintaining the most amount of green healthy fan leaves until harvest you maximize yields as MY anecdotal evidence bears out via photos I've posted for many years. It's science, shit-fer-brains, not some noobie herd mentality. https://www.rollitup.org/general-marijuana-growing/9114-spin-out-chemical-root-pruning.html
Again, you have confirmed my explanation for your lack of horticultural success via the common argument/justification you see often around these parts with folks that don't know what they're doing - you fuck up your plants inducing premature leaf necrosis which naturally compromises your yields and then try to pass off your weaknesses with some lame bullshit that your weed somehow tastes better because it doesn't have any fan leaves (which aren't smoked anyway). Suggest you talk to a Mexican pot grower or a Virginia tobacco grower.
You're a liar and a pussy too.
Uncle Ben
crazyhazey
Well-Known Member
kitehigh ive found over recent threads your usually on point with your info so ill take your word, sounds more believable not coming from the guy whos been spewing bullshit all over this thread. how could a plant keep all leaves green when its ready to be harvested? i feel like it would take away from resin/trich development since the plant doesnt feel like it needs to reproduce and put out defense mechanisms to protect its potential offspring, that bit of environmental stress causes much more resin output but ill give this a try when i got a set of clones to experiment with. i see yellowing leaves w/o starving em though, i just cut off N when they dont need it.
Krondizzel
New Member
Wow. Wow wow wow. That's how it's done!
Uncle Ben
Well-Known Member
And if you had left it alone it would have yielded "just over 26 oz".
cannawizard
Well-Known Member
*you make valid points, since we don't do enough scientific studies on the actual growth of this plant in real lab environments --
(EX: plant life/maturation/end cycle, resin/thc/terpene outputs, what exactly happens under the microscope, etc etc) then everything really falls under "conjecture"
instead of arguing for the sake of arguing, try experimenting with a couple strains with the leaves on and green during final cut, and see if you notice anything different~
skunkd0c
Well-Known Member
short answer NO
Sticky Lungs
Well-Known Member
I believe I read that fan leaves account for around 90% of the plants energy converting capabilities. I ALWAYS prefer to bend a leaf over removing it...however, sometimes it is necessary to remove A FEW leaves. I wouldn't strip my plant down to just buds though...thats not good.
BigBuddahCheese
New Member
Wow.. a closed minded 4000 post user? Never on RIU... I'm shocked. I am a defoliate fan, as I have seen the difference and experience it every grow. At least in DWC, maybe in soil or other mediums it is a different story.
Oh.. and of course I defoliate within reason but I have been known to clip a leaf for looking at me wrong.
akula
Active Member
This debate reminds me of the pre-harvest flushing debate, and its just as nasty and ugly. However unlike that debate, I am more neutral on this debate or on-the-fence I guess you could say. The problem is that I see a lot of anecdotal evidence here for the pro side for extreme defoliation, same as pro pre-harvest flushing. Problem with all this anecdotal evidence is that it is subject to confirmation biases.
For example; about 8 years ago I declared war on a forest of blackberry bushes on my property. I got a chainsaw and axe and cut them down. Then I ran a rotor machine with a large blade to cut their roots down a few feet. 8 years later my daughter regularly hikes down there and collects large buckets of rich juicy and sweet blackberries. In my view I was defeated by the fucking blackberry bushes, and they are an immovable object and that is one confirmation bias because I was expecting the eradication of the blackberry bushes. On the other hand, if I was looking for years of harvesting juicy blackberries(like my daughter), I could come to the conclusion that chopping them down and ripping the roots up is actually beneficial for producing nice sweet and juicy blackberries. That is also confirmation bias.
So my view is that this idea of extreme defoliation is somewhat unnatural so that you would need some scientific evidence to back such a radical idea. Now you could argue it is fairly natural for the cannabis plant to produce far more leaves then it needs because of natural defoliation like wildlife and weather and such. And I think that would be a good argument for minimal defoliation.
Anyways I would like more scientific evidence if someone could provide it. I understand that it may be difficult for a cannabis perspective, but any kind will do. I also grow tomatoes in doors and know other do as well, so maybe some evidence in some studies of botany in that realm.
Edit: btw, I am a "minimal defoliation(er)" in case anyone was interested. I guess that is why I feel neutral on this debate.
For example; about 8 years ago I declared war on a forest of blackberry bushes on my property. I got a chainsaw and axe and cut them down. Then I ran a rotor machine with a large blade to cut their roots down a few feet. 8 years later my daughter regularly hikes down there and collects large buckets of rich juicy and sweet blackberries. In my view I was defeated by the fucking blackberry bushes, and they are an immovable object and that is one confirmation bias because I was expecting the eradication of the blackberry bushes. On the other hand, if I was looking for years of harvesting juicy blackberries(like my daughter), I could come to the conclusion that chopping them down and ripping the roots up is actually beneficial for producing nice sweet and juicy blackberries. That is also confirmation bias.
So my view is that this idea of extreme defoliation is somewhat unnatural so that you would need some scientific evidence to back such a radical idea. Now you could argue it is fairly natural for the cannabis plant to produce far more leaves then it needs because of natural defoliation like wildlife and weather and such. And I think that would be a good argument for minimal defoliation.
Anyways I would like more scientific evidence if someone could provide it. I understand that it may be difficult for a cannabis perspective, but any kind will do. I also grow tomatoes in doors and know other do as well, so maybe some evidence in some studies of botany in that realm.
Edit: btw, I am a "minimal defoliation(er)" in case anyone was interested. I guess that is why I feel neutral on this debate.
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