freedom of thought, which amendment protects that?

burgertime2010 said:

It is a lot more than just growing a plant, you are opening a billion dollar industry for recreation and another for medicine......the rights to compete in the free market are the ones I see threatened......major economic losses to pharma, alcohol, and criminal justice/prisons is keeping this complicated.

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burgertime2010 said:

Thought is an artifact to those who are dead already. This groundswell of defeated hearts and minds you are in fact enforcing by telling people it is so. Hoplessness is a huge part of control, separation, misinformation ripple along too and perception with it. You are doing their dirty work...showing corporate interests as you do just adds to the misery.

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canndo said:

Then let us rise up. Let us begin..... with fracking. Why, fracking has no deleterious effects right? or does it? Who shall we trust? Oh, how about HFCS, it's just sugar, isn't it? Running out of oil? no, yes, maybe, there is time, no there isn't. Global warming? Cancer? obesity? heart disease? at every turn we get a multitude of opinions - one side turning to their political leaders to trust, the other turnng to movie stars and alarmists.

In order to make a change we need to all agree and we all need to agree uon where we presently are and where we should be headed. Get a general consensus and you might get enough folks to make a real difference but I saw what happened to the organic movement, the GMO movement, the peak oil movement, the anti nuclear movement and most of the others. No consensus and a ghost in the middle diverting attention and muddying the waters.

I did not know unti recently that there was no causality between smoking and lung cancer until 1996. Things are changing with cigarettes but that change is dominated by the rigid and the fearful. No enlightenment in sight.

If it seems as though I am shilling for the powers that be, it is only because I am pointing out that those powers have the control they sought. Sure, do something, opt out of the status quo, some of you have, for the most part but the time is past to put things right as never before. It will take hundreds of years to reverse what we have done, if it is possible at all.

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canndo said:

Here is again where we differ, it is hope itself that is constantly bartered to the masses, not hopelessness. Religion, "you can be anything you want", "this is AMERICA", "If you have nothing to hide....", "just tell the judge the truth". "you CAN get that girl, that job, that raise, that body, here is your hope and here is your pill, car, book or tip" "the Voice, Dancing with the stars, who wants to be a millionare, star search" and all the rest are the selling of hope.

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DNAprotection said:

we start with basics canndo and as individuals trying to 'think' and we think about the law of 3's (if you will)...
as humans...
3 minutes with no air and your in trouble...
3 days with no water and your in trouble...
3 weeks without food and your in trouble...
start here and think it through in terms of things we all have in common and how that might translate to 'human rights'...

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DNAprotection said:

thats an obama o'bummer kind of hope imo canndo...
im more about weighing the odds and personally making the most sensible play (and then hoping for the best lol)

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canndo said:

I think we have discussed this before - there are no "human" rights. unless of course there are animal rights - a concept PITA seems to have grasped. Do we, in this country have a right to food? Clean water? Clean air? we think we do, but in truth, all we have is participation in the commons, no matter how fouled.

Or do we indeed have those rights? and in so saying, the right to access to health care regardless of cost? If you have no inalienable right to life, liberty or property, how can you extrapolate a right to grow a plant? Have you that right if you have no land? no water? no access to sunlight? or is access to sunlight a right as well? do I have the "right" to a view of the mountains behind my house?

I think you are going to have to be far more basic than air, water and food, and if this is your argument then you are much more of a socialist than I.

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canndo said:

Then let us rise up. Let us begin..... with fracking. Why, fracking has no deleterious effects right? or does it? Who shall we trust? Oh, how about HFCS, it's just sugar, isn't it? Running out of oil? no, yes, maybe, there is time, no there isn't. Global warming? Cancer? obesity? heart disease? at every turn we get a multitude of opinions - one side turning to their political leaders to trust, the other turnng to movie stars and alarmists.

In order to make a change we need to all agree and we all need to agree uon where we presently are and where we should be headed. Get a general consensus and you might get enough folks to make a real difference but I saw what happened to the organic movement, the GMO movement, the peak oil movement, the anti nuclear movement and most of the others. No consensus and a ghost in the middle diverting attention and muddying the waters.

I did not know unti recently that there was no causality between smoking and lung cancer until 1996. Things are changing with cigarettes but that change is dominated by the rigid and the fearful. No enlightenment in sight.

If it seems as though I am shilling for the powers that be, it is only because I am pointing out that those powers have the control they sought. Sure, do something, opt out of the status quo, some of you have, for the most part but the time is past to put things right as never before. It will take hundreds of years to reverse what we have done, if it is possible at all.

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burgertime2010 said:

I am not calling you wrong....your bleak picture is adding to it perhaps? The optimist is not my defining characteristic but fear I will not be another product of. Enlightenment is not the right or wrong here, it is how to see/show how we are manipulated. Once, we see the mechanics we make our subjugation a hostile takeover. The idea is our victory is our example...I refuse to be castrated, I retain my hope and exercising true power is done through quiet ripples of the mind. Malignant consciousness is replaced and removed surgically and without a sound.

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DNAprotection said:

for me its real simple canndo, i have a 'human right' to partner with the land and do for my self if i choose to (as in no hospital or wal mart etc) and in that relationship one discovers the 'natural respect' owed to all our relatives no mater their form etc...
i dont have a right to 'food' and 'health care' etc imo, but i most certainly have the right to provide such for myself in partnership with the land and plants etc...and that right imo begins to erode when my exercise of such begins to intrude on your rights etc...

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canndo said:

I think we have discussed this before - there are no "human" rights. unless of course there are animal rights - a concept PITA seems to have grasped. Do we, in this country have a right to food? Clean water? Clean air? we think we do, but in truth, all we have is participation in the commons, no matter how fouled.

Or do we indeed have those rights? and in so saying, the right to access to health care regardless of cost? If you have no inalienable right to life, liberty or property, how can you extrapolate a right to grow a plant? Have you that right if you have no land? no water? no access to sunlight? or is access to sunlight a right as well? do I have the "right" to a view of the mountains behind my house?

I think you are going to have to be far more basic than air, water and food, and if this is your argument then you are much more of a socialist than I.

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burgertime2010 said:

I think human rights are those which are physiological and the right to live itself. Liberty is absolute lack of concern for how you make waves and comes at anothers imprisonment, Property is an invention or just a luxury but ownership is a right that brought us great conflict.

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canndo said:

Bleak? How so? what is, IS, it is neither bleak nor bright, it is reality and it matters not how we feel about it. What we do about it may certainly change, if we do nothing then it is bleak but if we accept(which is doing something), it can also be enlightening, and even empowering. Knowing what we cannot do is as powerful as knowing what we can. And giving ourself over to dissillusionment is the worst kind of dissempowerment there is. The truth does not set you free, that is another illusion, the truth simply offers you understanding, make of that what you will. I have always marvaled over the phrase "the truth hurts". when it cannot, only lies hurt.

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canndo said:

Where ever there is the death penalty you have no "right" to live.

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cannabineer said:

Is a right by definition inalienable?

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burgertime2010 said:

How do you see it?

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canndo said:

Ah!

Let us pretend that I do indeed have the right to plant my marijuana in my back yard. It grows to a big old plant, but my next door neighbor objects to the dank and pervasive smell that so often whafts across our boundary and into his open window. Where do I and my neighbor stand now?

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cannabineer said:

Rights are social constructs, conventions, agreements. Imo that are promotable and revocable. The only inalienable right i can find is, so far and eventually, to die.

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cannabineer said:

Is a right by definition inalienable?

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