Grow Checklist.. What am I missing? Need Bulk Substrate Suggestion

hmmm.

you cannot kill mycelium by shaking. Though shaking twice a day may not be productive.

or course there are more delegate mushroom mycelium, but the one you are working with is not one of them.

consider, one can place a dish into a blender on high for 10 or 12 seconds and not kill it.

so old people can't use computers very well? Wtf?

but mad has a point, too many sets of instructions from too many folks will confuse the guy.

mushrooms are nothing like plants and "nutrients" are quite different. Mushrooms are decomposers, breaking down complex molecules into simpler ones where plants do the opposite. Plants make sugars, fungus eats them.

further, consider what ruminant manure is.. Partly digested grass, straw, and cereal grains and a lot of dead bacteria. Now consider that your mushroom is both a primary and secondary decomposed.

if the limit to yield is nutrient, then manure might not be the best substrate. If the limit is available sugars and starches or cellulose, then again, manure might not be best. If the limit is water, then things change. The mycelium will most often either terminally change the ph of the substrate or run out of moisture long before it exhausts its nutrient base.

canndo said:

further, consider what ruminant manure is.. Partly digested grass, straw, and cereal grains and a lot of dead bacteria. Now consider that your mushroom is both a primary and secondary decomposed.

if the limit to yield is nutrient, then manure might not be the best substrate. If the limit is available sugars and starches or cellulose, then again, manure might not be best. If the limit is water, then things change. The mycelium will most often either terminally change the ph of the substrate or run out of moisture long before it exhausts its nutrient base.

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Hey guy i like you ! lol....-southpark

canndo said:

further, consider what ruminant manure is.. Partly digested grass, straw, and cereal grains and a lot of dead bacteria. Now consider that your mushroom is both a primary and secondary decomposed.

if the limit to yield is nutrient, then manure might not be the best substrate. If the limit is available sugars and starches or cellulose, then again, manure might not be best. If the limit is water, then things change. The mycelium will most often either terminally change the ph of the substrate or run out of moisture long before it exhausts its nutrient base.

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First excessive shaking will kill the myc. It will not continue to grow, so call it what you will. Cmc is chalked full of nutes for shrooms. It's decomposing poop. I could be wrong on this. I have never delved to much into it. I always thought that was 3rd grade science class.

And are you talking limits as far as water being hydration of the grain, sub, spawn, fruiting chamber? That can eman a lot of different things. Water is so important to the whole process at different levels at different times.

MadDog607 said:

And are you talking limits as far as water being hydration of the grain, sub, spawn, fruiting chamber? That can eman a lot of different things. Water is so important to the whole process at different levels at different times.

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agree....Canndo....IMO ....It depends which shrooms your growing for sub choices ya kno? cubes.....poo/verm/rye/wheat....Pans...Poo straw ...Or our latest azur cyan wood......IDK I feel that nutrient exhaustion in the immediate areas with fruiting bodies is likely a big factor along with things like moisture...But I think its kind of hard for a casing to completely run out of moisture esp when in high humidity incubator and misting? just my 2 cents...maybe I have a nickel lol

EDIT: Dif sub choices dif ability to hold moisture and different ph levels and that good stuff

With the WBS jars... how long should I wait to start checking jars once they are placed into incubator? fewer and shorter the light leaks the better i imagine.


I was planning on waiting 4-5 days before I would start checking.. once i see 20% colonization I will start doing a daily shake.... or should I be shaking daily even before colonization? I did the one shake before inoculation.

BeastGrow said:

With the WBS jars... how long should I wait to start checking jars once they are placed into incubator? fewer and shorter the light leaks the better i imagine.


I was planning on waiting 4-5 days before I would start checking.. once i see 20% colonization I will start doing a daily shake.... or should I be shaking daily even before colonization? I did the one shake before inoculation.

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I would not daily shake that is way to much ........wait till 20-25% shake again thats all I would do IMO......3-5 day is about regular to start seeing myc starting to form....depends on temp

Temps in the 75-82 range. with about 50% humidity.


You only do one shake at about 25% and then just wait for 100% before doing your bulk?

If i read right that is what you said so thanks for the info Athador

BeastGrow said:

Temps in the 75-82 range. with about 50% humidity.


You only do one shake at about 25% and then just wait for 100% before doing your bulk?

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yes 80-82 is ideal imo.....anything higher risk contam much lower slows growth

I am of a different opinion. I shake at first evidence, shake at a day after next evidence then wait I I don't see close to total coverage I will shake again

don't worry about early light, colonization may even be helped by some. Only after full colonization will you risk trigger. Then there are dome who believe light makes no difference.

I have proved to my own satisfaction that orchestration is the key to the largest yields in the shortest time

MadDog607 said:

And are you talking limits as far as water being hydration of the grain, sub, spawn, fruiting chamber? That can eman a lot of different things. Water is so important to the whole process at different levels at different times.

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hydration of substrate is the first limit, this is why a seemingly spent cake can fruit again after dehydration. many of the wood lovers respond thus way as wood holds considerably less water.

WHODAT@THADOR said:

agree....Canndo....IMO ....It depends which shrooms your growing for sub choices ya kno? cubes.....poo/verm/rye/wheat....Pans...Poo straw ...Or our latest azur cyan wood......IDK I feel that nutrient exhaustion in the immediate areas with fruiting bodies is likely a big factor along with things like moisture...But I think its kind of hard for a casing to completely run out of moisture esp when in high humidity incubator and misting? just my 2 cents...maybe I have a nickel lol

EDIT: Dif sub choices dif ability to hold moisture and different ph levels and that good stuff

Click to expand...

one of the reasons there are so many strong opinions about triggers is that any one of them eventually will work.

imminent nutrient depleation, co2 level, light, cold shock all play a roll.

the real point is timing
. If you can get the mycelium to just under the surface as you have gotten your casing to capacity as you are coming back from a ten or fifteen degree cold shock as you apply 3 cycles as you introduce light you will consistantly get impressive crops from one and two.

three should just be a bonus.

canndo said:

one of the reasons there are so many strong opinions about triggers is that any one of them eventually will work.

imminent nutrient depleation, co2 level, light, cold shock all play a roll.

the real point is timing
. If you can get the mycelium to just under the surface as you have gotten your casing to capacity as you are coming back from a ten or fifteen degree cold shock as you apply 3 cycles as you introduce light you will consistantly get impressive crops from one and two.

three should just be a bonus.

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Agree so many ways to shoot a horse...... so many opinions .....Myself i have only shocked brf...co2 I have found to be a nonfactor...I just sit em in a tub in the corner and wait.....

Amanita Versicula said:

what about misting? really think I need misting BUT no one mentions this. Pls advise

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misting actually does several things that make people believe it is more necessary then it is.

it incidentally exposes the grow to light. Evaporation brings the temperature down. Co2 is displaced.

but don't worry about all that. A light misting or two will help if your chamber is not properly humidified, it will keep your casing wet, hopefully to field capacity.

remember that evaporation will occur even in 100 percent humidity.

now, if you are not casing and your substrate is overlayed, misting will not do you much good. The mycelium will not directly absorb surface water.

so in that case your misting only serves to wet the walls of your chamber for a while.

if you are casing, you are best served misting gradually heavier after your first flush in anticipation of bringing your now moisture depleated casing back to field capacity just before your second set of pins. Same holds true for flush three. If you do not intend to immediately turn around and grow more then you can continue with further flushes. If you value your growing environment then you are done after 2 or at mist 3.

lets look at "shaking".

in the bad old days before spore syringes, people would grow out their mycelium in agar, they would cut small pieces of that grown agar, spear one and toss it into their jar. Then, for some reason, they would have to wait untill the mycelium colonized the entire little block of agar before the mycelium would finally, slowly make its way to a kernel or two of grain.

so, you started with a single innoculation point. The purpose of shaking was to knock off a few hyphae and get them to stick to fresh kernels. When they grew out a little, you would do it again, now not only are you attempting to get particles to come off the colonized grain and stick to new kernels but you were seeking to break up kernels that have grown together and reposition them so as to spread growth as rapidly and evenly as possible.

a good LC distributes far better than a single point. (if the agar ever stuck to the side of the jar you were pretty much screwed)

a hyphae is a string of cells that communicate with the cells upstream and down ant technically any individual cell has the capability of gleaning enough energy from what material it is resting on to produce another cell connected to the first., this is a chain. Breaking that chain only serves to make more little starter chains.

if you manage to actually injure the individual cells then they will not reproduce.there are many mushrooms that ate tender enough to be smashed and injured between two bits of wet grain, this particular mushroom is not one of those.

dishes of mycelium can be totally destroyed in a high speed blender after a minute or so but any less and it survives.

one of the reasons people believe that too much shaking kills the mushroom is because occasionaly there will be bacterial contamination in the jar. So long as the jar is not disturbed, the mycellium grows and the colony of bacteria is invisible. But after a shake, the bacteria is spread throughout where it multiplies far faster than the mycelium, repells it and changes the ph to where the mushroom cannot recover.

it looks like you killed it from shaking.

HIGH YA CANNDO~
because I am still new to this site-I do believe you were talking to ME (?)
and I really appreciate your responding.
I have various stages going on. I DID (or my kid did) lay down another layer of casing (?) or would that be considered "substrate" cause I did go thru the WHOLE process of pasteurization of my Peat; Vermic; & Manure-of course @ field capacity.
The shrooms we picked/cut still have little blobs in there. I pulled mine out (and put the bottom of the stem in more growing medium) HE DID NOT & what he left there are like blue eyes looking at me. so he wants me to put more casing down over all of it. He left for Spain so now I can do whatever I want! but what he left there has grown fuzz-its white and doesn't look like contamination-just appear they DON'T KNOW WHAT TO DO & NEITHER DO I!
I have like 4 tubs going. Not so worried about the humidity right now due to the weather. But as you said-misting isn't going thru all the layers. And I am afraid of drowning this project which has been going on since around MARCH-we argue about the moisture level all the time.
I bought him a kit which just had spores; bag & what appeared to be a Peat Moss mixture.
Mine I used liquid spores in br rice & verm. His took forever-mine not as long & I had much more Mycelium then he did!
Should I just put them outside in some good soil & let them do their thing & start over. We only had 1 small flush each. But I have them in big plastic tubs which I put too many holes in. He didn't in his.
I TOTALLY FEEL LIKE I AM LOSING IT! ALL I DO IS RESEARCH & WATCH VIDS & BOIL SUBSTRATE/CASING..I am using Peat Moss; Vermiculite & Manure.
Just bought a bag-costly- of worm casing whatever it is. But when my shrooms were growing in the bottom of a grow bag- I dumped it & put it in containers-though again, I don't know if he combined them all or what. I just wanna get a buzz- I pay for everything so I want him to do the work! Any other thoughts you have I will greatly APPRECIATE.
Thanks so much ~PeAcE only~

Thank you all for having manners; class & integrity...just coz folks like getting high shouldn't be a reason (if quite the contrary) TO BE RUDE like this email I received a bit ago from Shroomology. thanks for helping me out w/my questions rollitup~YOU HAVE BEEN GREAT & I THANK YOU FOR BEING ADULTS. this is their response~

yea its just you. only morons have issues like that please shut the hell up and go the fuck away

From: peace only
Sent: Wednesday, August 6, 2014 6:11 AM
To: info@shroomology.org
Subject: ~Error on the forums
hey ya all~everytime I try to enter this group~ I get treated as if I have never signed up & must create a NEW ACCOUNT to enter.
is it just me?